Author Topic: Another numpty GPS question  (Read 4677 times)

Another numpty GPS question
« on: 31 December, 2013, 06:25:06 pm »
Hi folks
after hunting around to find possible clues to this I decided to admit ignorance / lack of patience and just ask!
Got an Edge 800 for my birthday and since October been using it as a posh odometer, not for navigation.
Having tried and failed to finish the Kennet Valley 200 audax a couple of times I want to "practice" the middle 100k as that's the bit I struggle with, and use the Edge to navigate it.
Do I have to "snip" an existing 200k GPS file to do that?
I was hoping I could turn up in Hungerford and the device would know where it was, and navigate from that point.
That said I'm fairly confidently expecting the answer to this is "no"!
Given that it is, can someone suggest (in layman i.e. not especially IT literate terms) how I can modify an existing file to just navigate the bit I want to ride?
Cheers
Steve
The dog did nothing in the night-time - that was the curious incident..........

deadhead1971

  • http://www.scarletfire.co.uk
    • ScarletFire
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #1 on: 31 December, 2013, 07:30:00 pm »
It should be able to pick up from wherever you decide to start from. As long as you start the course, with turn by turn directions set to ON, it will helpfully announce "Course Found" when it recognises that you're on the right road. It should then resume directions along the rest of the course.
If you're nervous about trusting it, you can always re-draw a new track to follow, using tools like the route planner at www.ridewithgps.com
It is possible to edit existing courses but it's not something I tend to do so I can't think of the best app to do that, off the top of my head.
Hope that helps.
Alan
www.scarletfire.co.uk
(lots of cycling geekery: Garmin/mapping/strava etc)

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #2 on: 31 December, 2013, 08:40:38 pm »
If you have a GPX file, you can edit it with Tyre toTravel. A free routing package designed for TomTom and Garmin by some Dutch chappies.

Every point is displayed and you can chop them out, move them or rename them. You can add waypoints, move them about in the list or scrub them if you don't like them.

Getting the centre section of an existing GPX.
Rename the waypoint which will be the Start Point. Rename the Waypoint which will be the Finish Point. Delete all points up to where you want to start, and delete all waypoints after where you want to finish.
Save GPX as a different name, as a 'Garmin Global Position exchange' file.

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #3 on: 01 January, 2014, 11:00:11 pm »
Thanks both - very helpful.
I'll give the "see what happens when you get there" a go, and I've bookmarked TyreToTravel, looks neat.
Steve
The dog did nothing in the night-time - that was the curious incident..........

Reg.T

  • "You don't have to go fast; you just have to go."
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #4 on: 02 January, 2014, 02:19:59 pm »
As stated above, you should be fine to start a ride part-way round a course.

If you want to make a course as a subset of another, you can also use visual tools like BikeHike - it has a Cut-to-end feature to shorten a course (and a Reverse Route option so you can also trim the start point and then flip back the right way, IYSWIM)
Just turn me loose let me straddle my old saddle
Underneath the western skies

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #5 on: 02 January, 2014, 02:47:54 pm »
You will definitely be fine starting halfway round a route.


I accidentally turned my routing off on my edge 800 during an audax last year.  Once I'd worked out that's what I'd done (took a while) I restarted the route and it picked up from just where I was, much to my relief.
Once you've tried it a few times you will get the hang of it.


If you want turn by turn directions I would recommend saving any routes you create as TCX format as this I think is the best for turn be turn directions.


I would also advise doing some practice with it on routes you kind of know already just to get used to it.  You will be fine though - the navigation part of my brain has turned to jelly since I was given mine.


(Excellent birthday present by the way - mine was a christmas present in 2012 and I nearly dropped it when I opened it - EXTREMELY generous present!)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #6 on: 02 January, 2014, 02:55:38 pm »

Addendum

I would advise you to be wary of the routes given out by organisers by the way - no offense meant to the orgs.  They have enough to do I think than baby us around the route by carefully creating a truly excellent gps route for us.


I have found that they tend to often be a recording of someone's ride and that is not the best way to create a route.  The satellite feed isn't too accurate and it can meander off roads giving you annoying off course warnings when you aren't - plus you can see where they cycled around a bit trying to find that bit of the route they'd lost or trying to find a cafe etc.


It is advisable to use that route and create a new one that follows the roads and check that the roads are real using the satellite map and google earth streetview.  Google maps have led me up farmtracks to cowsheds before now...  I blamed the Garmin and then on rechecking found that googlemaps had a road where no road exists...
This can be a bit tedious but it can also save much gnashing and wailing of teeth en route.


Get a portable battery charger for it.  I don't think I've completed a 200 where the battery lasted all the way around.  Paricularly when using navigation the battery life I get is about 10-12 hours maximum - it will be at the lower end of that in winter because of the cold.  I'm sure I don't have to say, but make sure you have a backup for it - they can crash and do funny things occasionally.  See many threads in this forum with people cursing them...
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #7 on: 02 January, 2014, 02:56:47 pm »
Only my teeth are capable of wailing by the way  ;D
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #8 on: 03 January, 2014, 08:21:16 pm »
This is all great stuff, thanks folks!  :)

Caerau - any experience with saving files from RidewithGPS.com?
So far those are the files I've downloaded (may have to go back and save as .tcx based on your post though  :-[) and again taken on trust.
Most organisers tend to add caveats to files they offer, which is a fair point.
Having never created a route of my own so far your point "use that route and create a new one that follows the roads and check that the roads are real using the satellite map and google earth streetview" goes past me a bit, but I do need to spend a bit of time experimenting on Bikehike and RWGPS to be fair.
Like the point about wailing of teeth - unique!  ;D
Cheers

Steve
The dog did nothing in the night-time - that was the curious incident..........

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #9 on: 03 January, 2014, 09:34:37 pm »

Mistyping Mixing my metaphors is a speciality  :D

Yeah I use ridewithGPS all the time - creating a route is dead easy - you just click on a place to start the route and set it to follow roads clicking on route points as you go  - good idea to have the routesheet to hand if you're keen on making sure you follow it to the letter - make sure you save it as you go along - some of my computers are slow and get hung up on a long route occasionally. It takes a while but not desperately long - much less heartache than getting lost on a 200 k audax!


Once you've saved the route there are several options for exporting it as tcx, gpx etc.  If you go premium you can even directly import it to your garmin.


Bikehike is good too - sometimes I use this instead when my computer won't play ball.


If you're lucky someone else will share the route they have created - Bikey Mikey if he's riding is a great guy for this as he does a solid GPS route every time.  Asking for a gps is no worries usually, I'm happy to share mine once I've done one and plenty of others are too.


Avoid temptations to use Garmin's software by the way - that's generally terrible although basecamp can be OK if you need to compress the route for bragging rights on Bikeradar or such if that's your bag.  Long audaxes can generate massive files that are tough to otherwise upload to the various sites such as MMR, strava, bikeradar etc. (although that's a post-ride issue not navigation).

It's a reverse Elvis thing.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #10 on: 03 January, 2014, 09:39:51 pm »
As with all of these software site by the way, the 'undo' button is your friend.  The autorouting can be quite whacky at times and needs to be tamed occasionally by little short steps to prevent it doing silly things.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #11 on: 04 January, 2014, 01:59:01 pm »
Do you trust routes you see / can download from RidewithGPS though?
If I search for "audax" within 10km of me I get several, question is whether they're any good.
Suppose the simple answer is to trace the one I know best and if it's right then that user is worth believing.
Steve
The dog did nothing in the night-time - that was the curious incident..........

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #12 on: 04 January, 2014, 07:24:41 pm »
Do you trust routes you see / can download from RidewithGPS though?
If I search for "audax" within 10km of me I get several, question is whether they're any good.
Suppose the simple answer is to trace the one I know best and if it's right then that user is worth believing.
Steve

The Audax Organiser's opinion of 'good', your opinion of 'good' and my opinion of 'good' may be completely different.

Just download it and ride it. Then make up your mind.

PS. ALL Audax organisers are 'worth believing'. To get their routes accepted and authorised by the administrator, they MUST complete a risk assessment on the route.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #13 on: 05 January, 2014, 09:21:36 am »
Do you trust routes you see / can download from RidewithGPS though?

I wouldn't trust any downloaded file from any source, enough to just load it and go and ride it.

I would always check it first on the desktop, then on the GPS, to see if it does what's expected of it.  In the nature of GPSs, this isn't always easy to do.  But the alternative is the distinct possibility that the navigation will let you down in the middle of nowhere.

In some ways RidewithGPS is particularly problematic, because it offers several different dowload options for each route.  This is obviously a good thing because no one format is perfect for everyone - but on the other hand it means that an inexperienced person (I'm not going to use the word 'numpty') can very easily grab a file formatted in a way that doesn't suit them or their GPS.
As I recall, RidewithGPS does have very good Help pages though, around this topic.  But who reads Help pages?  Apart from me.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #14 on: 05 January, 2014, 02:02:53 pm »
Do you trust routes you see / can download from RidewithGPS though?
If I search for "audax" within 10km of me I get several, question is whether they're any good.
Suppose the simple answer is to trace the one I know best and if it's right then that user is worth believing.
Steve

The Audax Organiser's opinion of 'good', your opinion of 'good' and my opinion of 'good' may be completely different.

Just download it ( Check it, check it again and check it again for a third time ) and ride it. Then make up your mind.

PS. ALL Audax organisers are 'worth believing'. To get their routes accepted and authorised by the administrator, they MUST complete a risk assessment on the route.

Thanks Francis  ;)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #15 on: 05 January, 2014, 06:27:27 pm »
Some organisers don't have any 1st-hand knowledge at all, of the file they put up for download.
It is sometimes a 'ridden' tracklog that someone's given them.  So the organiser may be a trusting soul, but any rider unwittingly relying on a file like that would just be a mug.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #16 on: 06 January, 2014, 09:28:10 am »
Anyone trusting files from someone else will trust away happily until one day they will never trust them again ;)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #17 on: 06 January, 2014, 10:26:42 am »
Anyone trusting files from someone else will trust away happily until one day they will never trust them again ;)

The theory of "Russian roulette".

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #18 on: 06 January, 2014, 06:11:45 pm »
Gpx is fine for the 800.
What you do is download the file to your computer from ridewithGps and then copy it to the new files folder on your Garmin 800.

When you next turn the garmin on it will automatically convert any files in the folder to courses.
Then you go to courses and click on the course you want.
Choose the spanner and set your navigation and virtual partner settings.
(Please remember that cycling with virtual partner breaks the rules of audax as the partner won't have paid any fee)
Cycle

deadhead1971

  • http://www.scarletfire.co.uk
    • ScarletFire
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #19 on: 06 January, 2014, 10:29:21 pm »
Over the years I noticed so many people getting a bit confused while they learned how to use the Edge 800 properly, that I wrote up an article explaining, step by step, what you need to do and what settings to use.
Much of it has already been said in the comments here, but sometimes it's handy to have it all in one place.

http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/2012/11/foolproof-course-navigation-on-the-garmin-edge-800/


Alan
www.scarletfire.co.uk
(lots of cycling geekery: Garmin/mapping/strava etc)

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #20 on: 07 January, 2014, 07:29:47 am »
I had a ring binder full of self written Procedures, Work Instructions and 'Single point lessons' on the eTrex Legend and Edge 605.

You could have had it.
It went in the skip when I junked both units.

deadhead1971

  • http://www.scarletfire.co.uk
    • ScarletFire
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #21 on: 07 January, 2014, 04:06:10 pm »
I had a ring binder full of self written Procedures, Work Instructions and 'Single point lessons' on the eTrex Legend and Edge 605.

You could have had it.
It went in the skip when I junked both units.

A very kind thought. Thank you :-)
Where's your local landfill site, I'll get my wellies!
Alan
www.scarletfire.co.uk
(lots of cycling geekery: Garmin/mapping/strava etc)

Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #22 on: 08 January, 2014, 07:38:41 am »
You can have a copy of my epic ‘Creating an Audax route with TomTom Rider’.

[

1.   Read TomTom Urban Rider manual Chapter 6, ‘Planning a route’
2.   Read TomTom Urban Rider manual Chapter 9, ‘Itinerary planning’.

]

Copy and paste to a blank Word Doc and you have it!  ;)

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #23 on: 08 January, 2014, 09:51:26 am »
Is that a manual that actually comes with it?


In defense of those who don't know how to get the best out of an Edge 800 - the best thing you can do with the 'instruction manual' that comes with it is to burn it to save on heating bills or as a possible better alternative clean the rear end with it to save on buying a smidgeon more toilet roll.
It is completely absurd that garmin can release such a powerful and complex device and then fail to provide at least something vaguely resembling a 'how to use this piece of kit' document?
I know most people don't rtfm but at least give us the option to.



It's a reverse Elvis thing.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Another numpty GPS question
« Reply #24 on: 08 January, 2014, 06:48:56 pm »
The Edge 800 manual is here (pdf)

When I bought an Etrex 30, that came with a manual.
I found it on
[GPS]\Documents\files\pdf\
in 30 languages.
 :-\

Possibly the Edge has something similar.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll