Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Scrantaj on 09 April, 2023, 11:10:45 am
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After many years riding conventional bikes I've just been told I almost certainly have early onset arthritis in my neck and possibly both shoulders. Still waiting for a full diagnosis but right now riding more than an hour leaves me in severe pain and with tingling sensations in both hands.
Assuming there is no medical fix I have been looking into recumbents as a solution to keep riding and was wondering if anyone had the same sort of issues and found the a 'bent helped keep them the road?
Also, are there any recumbent dealers in the UK? I'm struggling to find any other than Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh.
Finally, any suggestions on what bike to go for? Aiming for general riding with Audax's and some light touring thrown in. I've see the Pelso / Brevet which would be in budget and appeals as I could transplant brakes, wheels, crankset etc from my current bike but, I've no real idea if it's any good or not.
Thanks in advance for any answers.
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Dtek near Cambridge is a good bet to try some out, or post your general area and see if there is someone local on here, bhpc or ctc forum, you might get a chance to give it a try.
You generally don’t buy the best bike for you on the first attempt, so buy second hand and expect that you will trade it in for your next bike.
Probably you want either the biggest wheeled bike you can get your foot down with, or you want a trike (which requires a garage or other front storage - tricky in a terraced house with no side passage!). You will need a number of miles to judge whether you need suspension or whether it’s just an added weight to slow you down.
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If you live in or near to North East England I have several recumbents that you could try out, including a Pelso brevet.
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If you live in or near to North East England I have several recumbents that you could try out, including a Pelso brevet.
Dtek near Cambridge is a good bet to try some out, or post your general area and see if there is someone local on here, bhpc or ctc forum, you might get a chance to give it a try.
You generally don’t buy the best bike for you on the first attempt, so buy second hand and expect that you will trade it in for your next bike.
Probably you want either the biggest wheeled bike you can get your foot down with, or you want a trike (which requires a garage or other front storage - tricky in a terraced house with no side passage!). You will need a number of miles to judge whether you need suspension or whether it’s just an added weight to slow you down.
Thanks both. Sadly nowhere near either. Nottinghamshire, but within easy distance of Sheffield and Lincoln.
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Where’s your nearest bhpc race?
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6 days ago I acquired my first recumbent bike a High Racer. Previously I had no experience of recumbents and was only aware that they existed. I saw one out on a ride on one of my fixed gear bikes a few weeks ago and decided after some pondering to investigate them further. I have seen them before, but after very rare brief encounters on rides never considered them any further.
I researched them online as much as I could and after watching many youtube vids and reading many reviews I decided it was the High Racers I preferred the look of and in particular those made by Bacchetta. I did talk to Kevin at D-TEK he was very helpful and has many different types and models of recumbent bike and trike available, in the end though I was offered a Bacchetta High Racer by a seller in response to a wanted post I had placed in this forum. This was exactly what I had decided I wanted and fortunately it was only an hour away to collect.
These do take some practice to get the feel of and for the first few days just rode it locally until I felt competent enough to take it on a proper ride. On Saturday I did a 50 mile ride on it I'd intended to do only 40, but was enjoying the ride so much and not having any difficulties that it was easy to extend it.
The choice of recumbent I considered had to be a two wheeler,(I'm not drawn to trikes) I didn't want a Low Racer or Mid Racer as I wanted to sit higher to not only see, but to also be seen by other traffic more easily. I also wanted wheels of equal size back and front this to me just left the High Racers. In the end though what you chose may be dictated by your leg measurements, inseam and xseam. For me a High Racer with 26'' wheels is probably the most practical option as 700c wheels may be a bit too large for me with my 30'' inseam. As mentioned above if you do get the opportunity to try different bikes that would definitely be time well spent.
I too like the look of the Pelso Brevet and would consider one for the future, I think the 'S' shape frame allows a lower seat height over the 'Stick' frame design of the Bacchetta and similar. There are a number of reviews of the Pelso online, here's one.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=145368
My reason, by the way for entering the what I'm now finding is the fascinating world of recumbents was just simple curiosity I fortunately have no health problems dictating the change.
Good luck with your quest!
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ICE trikes are made in Cornwall. I recently bought one due to neck and back pain on my upright and stiffness preventing me lifting my leg high enough to mount and dismount. Very pleased with it. I bough secondhand from Tom at Freetrike in Silverton, near Exeter.
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It was neck problems which transitioned me to recumbents. I've found that I can't get on with tiller bars. Aerobars, aka. tweener bars, give more natural steering to my mind. The best option for audax is probably large wheels because it's then easer to do without suspension but if you are of below average height then you have to look at small wheels with suspension, or the long wheelbase format which generally has more upright seating.
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My n=1 experience is that tiller is less natural to try out and aero bars are easier to learn - but once I got the idea I found tiller more comfortable (as long as I didn’t hit my knees with the handlebars).
For me my 2 wheeler had all the disadvantages of a trike with none of the advantages but ymmv (massively with laidbacks).
It’s not too tricky to swap from tiller to aero bars (and back).
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6 days ago I acquired my first recumbent bike a High Racer. Previously I had no experience of recumbents and was only aware that they existed. I saw one out on a ride on one of my fixed gear bikes a few weeks ago and decided after some pondering to investigate them further. I have seen them before, but after very rare brief encounters on rides never considered them any further.
Good luck with your quest!
Thanks for the long reply. A high racer is probably what I'm after, I'm 6"3 with long legs so getting feet down won't be a problem. The Barchetta's look good as well but so far I've not found anywhere outside of the US that sells them.
Thats seems to be the biggest issue, finding anywhere that will actually sell me what I'm looking for!
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My n=1 experience is that tiller is less natural to try out and aero bars are easier to learn - but once I got the idea I found tiller more comfortable (as long as I didn’t hit my knees with the handlebars).
For me my 2 wheeler had all the disadvantages of a trike with none of the advantages but ymmv (massively with laidbacks).
It’s not too tricky to swap from tiller to aero bars (and back).
By aero bars I'm assuming you mean handle bars mouthed directly to the steerer rather than with a long angled extension? From what I've read tiller steering seems to be very much a marmite thing and I'm looking at conventional (for a recumbent) bars atm.
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I switched to recumbents for audax after Shermer’s neck on a 2100km audax in 2016.
You can import the frame set if set on a new Bachetta from USA. Framesets usually include all the recumbent specific parts, leaving you just to supply wheels, drive train etc. But as advised you probably want something second hand to start, before deciding what you want.
I ride a Lightning P-38 for audax. This is my second recumbent, I imported the frame set. Not as aero as more reclined models, still better than your road bikes, but it’s relatively lightweight (12kg as built) agile and a good climber. No suspension, cantilevered mesh seat takes care of that. Longest audax so far, 1000km last Sept. Of course for ultimate aero I could buy the full fairing kit. Front wheel 406 and rear 622. Rear clearance 32mm with mud guards, front will take 40mm, though currently running 32mm. Takes mudguards , has a perfect seat bag for audax you can buy , and two mountings for water bottle cages below seat. Bar end shifters, which I use in friction mode. Dynamo light on mount on front derailleur
Photo from Double Dutch, Infinity 200km audax on Easter Sat.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6NW-6_ugjcU5G7N0HQbZQ42eO7q_plTbAtyBfXgwWmFkNjhORZAkYErdo43CqLuDeGhnDgjGMA4z24Tn88hq-2RlQfVmPzE7B08KXf2mWx0BI0NSstEsKQex7c7y7NwWiRpqaY__tg=w2400)
You could also look at Performer recumbents which are good value and have both low and high racers as well as folding ones in their mix.
https://www.performercycles.com/
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6 days ago I acquired my first recumbent bike a High Racer. Previously I had no experience of recumbents and was only aware that they existed. I saw one out on a ride on one of my fixed gear bikes a few weeks ago and decided after some pondering to investigate them further. I have seen them before, but after very rare brief encounters on rides never considered them any further.
Good luck with your quest!
Thanks for the long reply. A high racer is probably what I'm after, I'm 6"3 with long legs so getting feet down won't be a problem. The Barchetta's look good as well but so far I've not found anywhere outside of the US that sells them.
Thats seems to be the biggest issue, finding anywhere that will actually sell me what I'm looking for!
Try Kevin at D-TEK email: minimoke88@gmail.com Tel: 01353 648177 he may well have something you'll be interested in. There is also this currently on ebay, but may be a little small for you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125869857637?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230105140155%26meid%3Df0ee6c6b7e0e47c4b2b541336dd72340%26pid%3D101666%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D125869857637%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p2380057.c101666.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad2c6d38b-d7a3-11ed-85e7-16f606cd4ccb%7Cparentrq%3A6b5c23e31870ad33b367ee17fffc01b0%7Ciid%3A1
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I'm looking at conventional (for a recumbent) bars atm.
“Conventional” made me laugh. Aero bars (arms out straight) are/were more prominent in USAnia, you turn the handlebars so less different from diamond frame bikes; tiller is less intuitive but has a number of advantages (it becomes more comfortable once you’ve mastered it). You can swap from one to the other though.
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Try Kevin at D-TEK email: minimoke88@gmail.com Tel: 01353 648177 he may well have something you'll be interested in. There is also this currently on ebay, but may be a little small for you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125869857637?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230105140155%26meid%3Df0ee6c6b7e0e47c4b2b541336dd72340%26pid%3D101666%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D125869857637%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p2380057.c101666.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad2c6d38b-d7a3-11ed-85e7-16f606cd4ccb%7Cparentrq%3A6b5c23e31870ad33b367ee17fffc01b0%7Ciid%3A1
Saw that one, and yeah, probably too small. D-Tek are on the list for a call tomorrow.
Came across this on Ebay as well, anyone know anything about them? Velomotion Scopa?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122994988975?hash=item1ca31297af:g:UCUAAOSwk-damB4V&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwCwDsaaYIauubQh9auoD5uKWEFTYrNrvbgNPEwBJvrilTmfzlu%2BmZWfJBJAW5ylD1rqGnX792yfQAU8gHmauRDluHIAhIeb9oQs94%2BaUEKUnyd2oXYZYnFuoc1e8NoOdJFzqE%2FY%2BuDhmxMzGXkVhEzQaRuTpLJFaeJVo1CUs2ft%2Be6YT1bu%2F7oTqs5d6LX0pts884zb7uGTrLAczRI5un%2F%2FJXpBuFbDGvVnlWdpYZrS5Q5IHfcg25wkhlODrJvcW%2FQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_qn1rztYQ
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There's an interview with the founder of Velomotion here.
https://www.recumbent.news/2021/10/28/velomotion-stick-bikes-from-serbia/
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I met a Velomotion Scopa rider by chance a few months back whilst out in the countryside. He seemed happy with his purchase. The advertised 20 to 25 degree seat amgle is rather extreme for a beginner. Suggest you check whether or not the seat can be adjusted to more upright angles.
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No such thing as conventional when it comes to recumbents. The UCI rule book has been thrown away ;D
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I'm looking at conventional (for a recumbent) bars atm.
“Conventional” made me laugh. Aero bars (arms out straight) are/were more prominent in USAnia, you turn the handlebars so less different from diamond frame bikes; tiller is less intuitive but has a number of advantages (it becomes more comfortable once you’ve mastered it). You can swap from one to the other though.
Under-seat steering is likely to be the best from an arm/shoulder perspective though. It's a bit less intuitive at first (on a bicycle), but a more neutral arm/wrist position. It's also the least aerodynamic option, which is why you tend to see it on the more touring rather than performance oriented machines. (Which to put things in perspective will still compare favourably to a typical upright in terms of aerodynamic drag, but tend to be a fair bit heavier.)
The disadvantages to USS are a limited amount of space to mount gadgets (mirrors, computers, etc), and that delicate things like shifters tend to take the brunt of the impact if the bike falls over (again, not a problem on trikes). On the other hand, it can make mounting and dismounting a bit simpler.
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Try Kevin at D-TEK email: minimoke88@gmail.com Tel: 01353 648177 he may well have something you'll be interested in. There is also this currently on ebay, but may be a little small for you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125869857637?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230105140155%26meid%3Df0ee6c6b7e0e47c4b2b541336dd72340%26pid%3D101666%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D125869857637%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p2380057.c101666.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad2c6d38b-d7a3-11ed-85e7-16f606cd4ccb%7Cparentrq%3A6b5c23e31870ad33b367ee17fffc01b0%7Ciid%3A1
Saw that one, and yeah, probably too small. D-Tek are on the list for a call tomorrow.
Came across this on Ebay as well, anyone know anything about them? Velomotion Scopa?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122994988975?hash=item1ca31297af:g:UCUAAOSwk-damB4V&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwCwDsaaYIauubQh9auoD5uKWEFTYrNrvbgNPEwBJvrilTmfzlu%2BmZWfJBJAW5ylD1rqGnX792yfQAU8gHmauRDluHIAhIeb9oQs94%2BaUEKUnyd2oXYZYnFuoc1e8NoOdJFzqE%2FY%2BuDhmxMzGXkVhEzQaRuTpLJFaeJVo1CUs2ft%2Be6YT1bu%2F7oTqs5d6LX0pts884zb7uGTrLAczRI5un%2F%2FJXpBuFbDGvVnlWdpYZrS5Q5IHfcg25wkhlODrJvcW%2FQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_qn1rztYQ
Scopa is a lightweight and versatile bike, there's an option on eBay to buy just the frameset and recumbent specific parts (or at least there was when I got one). I found the seat angle a bit low however easy enough to make it a bit more upright by adding a spacer between the upper seat bracket and the seat. And a wide range of options for the wheels, including clearance for wider tyres.
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Where's ElyDave at? He and me are in a minority even here with front wheel drive and the whole DF rear triangle is now a swinging edifice out in front of you along with your feet. Cruzbike S40 for both of us, highracer, mudguards, and audax for him. Drop handlebars make a more relaxed position, but not as much as USS.
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Coz a cruzbike is an easy entry level laidback, readily available at an affordable price?
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Where's ElyDave at? He and me are in a minority even here with front wheel drive and the whole DF rear triangle is now a swinging edifice out in front of you along with your feet. Cruzbike S40 for both of us, highracer, mudguards, and audax for him. Drop handlebars make a more relaxed position, but not as much as USS.
Looked at those very briefly. Utterly mad.
Speaking of mad. Trying to find flat bar brake levers and shifters that will work with the bits from the proposed doner bike is driving me potty. I though road group sets were bad but trying to find combo's of flat bar / MTB levers and shifters that will work together is mind boggling.
11 spd shimano with mechanical discs. Deore MT M8000 rear mech (it's got silly gearing) and Ultegra front mech. Anyone got any suggestions on what will work? Getting confused trying to find non-hydraulic brae levers along with I-Spec 1, II, A and B shifters, or am I going to have to ditch the rear mech and start again?
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https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1765329#p1765329
Nazca Fuego for sale on CTC forum, size large. in Lancashire.
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Where's ElyDave at? He and me are in a minority even here with front wheel drive and the whole DF rear triangle is now a swinging edifice out in front of you along with your feet. Cruzbike S40 for both of us, highracer, mudguards, and audax for him. Drop handlebars make a more relaxed position, but not as much as USS.
Looked at those very briefly. Utterly mad.
Speaking of mad. Trying to find flat bar brake levers and shifters that will work with the bits from the proposed doner bike is driving me potty. I though road group sets were bad but trying to find combo's of flat bar / MTB levers and shifters that will work together is mind boggling.
11 spd shimano with mechanical discs. Deore MT M8000 rear mech (it's got silly gearing) and Ultegra front mech. Anyone got any suggestions on what will work? Getting confused trying to find non-hydraulic brae levers along with I-Spec 1, II, A and B shifters, or am I going to have to ditch the rear mech and start again?
If I was building one up in 11 speed I'd use Sram 11 speed grip shifters with Sram front and rear derailleurs and Spyre cable disc brakes for which there are loads of levers available none of it complicated. I've got Sram 9 speed on my Bacchetta it uses Sram X9 grip shifters and Avid cable discs. I'd not really used grip shifting before, but these work flawlessly I prefer them to trigger shifters which I have used a lot.
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I have a healthy loathing of grip shifters, but I note that:
On a derailleur-geared recumbent, there's a significant advantage to a shifter that lets you go all the way to bottom gear in one go. So grip shifters, bar-ends, thumbies, etc. are preferable to trigger shifters or road levers.
Excluding the likes of Rohloff and Sturmey-Archer, SRAM are the only people who seem to be able to make a grip shifter out of something other than cheese.
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I have a healthy loathing of grip shifters, but I note that:
On a derailleur-geared recumbent, there's a significant advantage to a shifter that lets you go all the way to bottom gear in one go. So grip shifters, bar-ends, thumbies, etc. are preferable to trigger shifters or road levers.
Excluding the likes of Rohloff and Sturmey-Archer, SRAM are the only people who seem to be able to make a grip shifter out of something other than cheese.
I had the same loathing of grip shifters in the past and avoided then as a result, but my new to me Bacchetta Giro coming with them has changed my opinion to they can be good and sometimes even the best option.
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The ones on barakta's trike seem to work well enough, other than not providing useful indication of what gear you're in (they have a little window, but with USS the angles are all wrong). I still prefer bar-ends, but I have the luxury of a left hand that can operate shifters.
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The former owner of my ICE Adventure had the original grip shifts changed to bar ends and the brakes adapted to work from one lever - left hand. I much prefer both of these mods.
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Yes, barakta's got both front brakes on a dual-pull lever on the right (which works well as long as you keep them reasonably balanced, and I find it more intuitive when I ride the trike, as that's what I'm used to on my bicycles), along with the original twist-grip for the rear derailleur and an extended bar-end for the front. And a couple of switches to jibble the e-assist power level. It's a bit crowded, but it puts all the controls where she can get at them.
The rear brake is operated by the original twist-grip on the left handlebar, which she has to lean over and operate with her right hand (which is a bit of a faff, but adequate). Her left hand can, on a good day, keep the steering pointed in the right direction, and there's also a bell where her most-functional little finger can operate it.
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Coz a cruzbike is an easy entry level laidback, readily available at an affordable price?
Did for my first one. New frameset from OEM end-of-line discount and the rest just standard bike bits. People shut themselves down so quickly - I just reckoned it must be possible as long you're ok to learn a new skill; and it was.
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Don't get me wrong, I was very tempted by a Cruzbike, but the only one I saw on eBay went well beyond my price range. Conversely I got my SPM on this forum for £500 and my Trike for a little more on BHPC. Paying more for the trike was a safe bet as there was little chance that I wouldn't manage to ride it.
But then budgets are a personal thing.
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Quick update. Thanks to all who commented.
After chatting with Igor Ralic, the guy behind Velomotion, I've plumped for one of his frames.
He was extremely helpful and patient with my questions and helped me spec something that does what I needed.
Frame is due in about 6 weeks, I'll post pics when it arrives and as I get it built up.
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That's great I'll be watching with interest!
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Got a Azub Six (USS), more a touring bike, but I'm sure with a bit thinner tyres it would do just fine as a faster rider. And as Kim said USS might be the way forward if arm, shoulder, neck is an issue.
Good luck with the new bike, and welcome to the dark side :)
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So getting parts together for the build when the frame arrives.
Question about pedals. I usually ride flats for long distance stuff, are they apractical option on a 'bent? I have clipless pedals and shoes and was wondering about using them or not, especially for the first few rides to avoid the dreaded clipped in slow topple.
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Doable if the bottom bracket isn't too high compared to the seat, but foot retention is easier, as you don't need to fight gravity to keep your feet on the pedals. It's less of a safety issue with bikes than with tadpole trikes, as the main risk from slipping is bashing your heel on the front wheel rather than running over your foot. If you're already used to using clipless pedals, I'd say they were a no-brianer. (Though by all means stick to flats for ease of getting a foot down until you're past the wobbling stage.)
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I set my pedals to minimum retention, so they helped keep my feet on the pedals but unclipped with little/no effort so that I didn't have an issue.
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I’d say having your feet clipped in, is better when going down. You’re not going to damage the ankle / foot with awkward twisting or jamming it in the front wheel.
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Yup, didn't have any issues with clipless on my bent, when I started out.
The only issue I got is, I have to put my feet in a different position on the ground when stopped, so that I don't topple over. Compared to a stop on a up wrong. This often causes less grip to the ground in my cycling shoes, for some reason reason. And I haven't learned that spot of by heart yet, so I often do a one legged dance when stoping.
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Still waiting for the frame to arrive. A short delay at the Velomotion end and now held up in customs in the UK. Arrived in the UK 2 weeks ago but Parcelforce are sitting on it while they decide how much to charge me in Import taxes. Despite chasing via email and Twitter and sending them the invoice and proof of cost apparently it takes 5 days to respond to an email and no-one can tell me when it's likely to be actioned.
>:( >:( >:(
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If it is slightly like dealing with DVLA, your emails will have to be printed out so that they can be scanned into the system they use to deal with customers, this take about 10 days ...
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No, it's a courier. So as it's been sat with them for two weeks now, they'll return to sender as the recipient didn't accept delivery in time...
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Still waiting for the frame to arrive. A short delay at the Velomotion end and now held up in customs in the UK. Arrived in the UK 2 weeks ago but Parcelforce are sitting on it while they decide how much to charge me in Import taxes. Despite chasing via email and Twitter and sending them the invoice and proof of cost apparently it takes 5 days to respond to an email and no-one can tell me when it's likely to be actioned.
>:( >:( >:(
Hope you get it soon. It seems to be easier to get kit from the USA than the EU these days. Of course if Velomotion didn't make the right declarations ....
Paul
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No, it's a courier. So as it's been sat with them for two weeks now, they'll return to sender as the recipient didn't accept delivery in time...
Not a courier, Parcelforce. I've had no opportunity to accept delivery as they haven't actually attempted it yet. The parcel is still sat in their "International Hub" in Coventry. Paperwork is all in order but everything is done by letter. Sent me a letter a week after they received the package asking for the original invoice as proof of value. That's been sent and it's been another week since that and still no movement. I need them to tell me what customs charges are due so I can pay them and customs will release the package for delivery. Emailing them doesn't help as they have a 5 day response time to email enquiries.
I don't want to use the B word here, but if you voted for it this is your fault.
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Porcelfarce sat on the timing kit we'd borrowed from a USAnian pal until 1: the letter arrived on my doormat; b) the bill was paid and iv) the following Monday happened. I am planning to stick it to The Man by smuggling it back into USAnia in The Luggage in a couple of weeks time and sending it from there. Ha! Take that, fascists!
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Porcelfarce sat on the timing kit we'd borrowed from a USAnian pal until 1: the letter arrived on my doormat; b) the bill was paid and iv) the following Monday happened. I am planning to stick it to The Man by smuggling it back into USAnia in The Luggage in a couple of weeks time and sending it from there. Ha! Take that, fascists!
Cue Mr Larrington being hauled aside by the humourless TSA goons to explain why there appears to be a timer in his luggage...
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I'm going to take the batteries out, obv…
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Right, it took a while in the end but finally have a 'bent build and ridable.
In the end it took almost 6 weeks for ParcelForce to sort themselves out and get the frame delivered. On the plus side it was in good condition and undamaged when it did finally get delivered. On the down side it was the wrong colour! At some point there had been a mix up at Velomotions end and I got a white frame and not a yellow one as ordered. Rather than messing about returning it and getting mixed up with customs and ParcelForce again Igor agreed to refund me the cost of getting it resprayed here. That took another week or so but I'm really happy with the end result. There was nothing wrong with the quality of the original paintwork, it was just the wrong colour!
Assembly was a learning curve. I used my Audax bike as a donor for running gear, wheels etc. While it was mostly straight forward there were a couple of places were the tolerances on the frame were a fraction out but a combination of very careful dremmel work and sand paper got it sorted. I very nearly cut the donor fork steerer too short but caught the detail in the instructions from Igor just in time.
I experimented with thumb shifters but just couldn't get a good setup with them on the superman bars so plumped for bar end shifters in the end. The MTB specific shifters from Microshift aren't cheap but they are really well made and work perfectly with the Deore XT rear mech from the donor bike (It had very silly gearing with an 11-50 cassette).
I started out with SPD pedals but very quickly switched to flats after flailing madly trying to get my feet in them and weaving like a drunk puppy all over the road on my first couple of tries at riding it. Flats have worked out really well and I'll be sticking with them I think. I'm still working on final details like where to mount the Garmin, lights, mudguard position etc. Debating making the seat angle a bit lower, but that will mean I have to shorten the steerer tube to see over it, so it can wait for a bit I think. Started on the highest position but found that reducing it a couple of steps actually made it easier to ride.
I've clocked up around 50km on it so far with only one fall when I messed up a gear change on a steepish hill and lost my balance. Otherwise going well so far. My only real issue atm is slow moving traffic, I still need more practice at slow speed balance, anything under 5mph and it gets very iffy and pulling away in traffic is still a bit hit and miss. Doing 30 mins a day just practicing atm, with my longest ride being today, doing an hour mostly on quiet local lanes. Looking forward to being able to get out longer and further with an eye on getting back to Audax next year.
In the mean time here is a picture of the Flying Banana as my wife has dubbed it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53206265048_bf28321b00_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo)
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Very nice banana, I'll say.
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Looks good. I have a velomotion, setup is a bit different with a 20" front wheel. Bit simpler for me as I bought it before 2016 ... Lightweight, good quality frame, once you get some more miles in it should become a comfortable and versatile bike.
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Very nice banana, I'll say.
A banana and it's a bent
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What size wheels are they?
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Very nice banana, I'll say.
A banana and it's a bent
But quite a straight bent benanana.
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Bentnananananananananana
My fingers are tired
What brand is the frame?
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It's looking good! Welcome to the quirkiest dimension of cycling. ;D
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What size wheels are they?
700c front and rear.
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Bentnananananananananana
My fingers are tired
What brand is the frame?
Velomotion, no decals on it as it had to be resprayed.
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No, it's a courier. So as it's been sat with them for two weeks now, they'll return to sender as the recipient didn't accept delivery in time...
Not a courier, Parcelforce. I've had no opportunity to accept delivery as they haven't actually attempted it yet. The parcel is still sat in their "International Hub" in Coventry. Paperwork is all in order but everything is done by letter. Sent me a letter a week after they received the package asking for the original invoice as proof of value. That's been sent and it's been another week since that and still no movement. I need them to tell me what customs charges are due so I can pay them and customs will release the package for delivery. Emailing them doesn't help as they have a 5 day response time to email enquiries.
I don't want to use the B word here, but if you voted for it this is your fault.
Here is part of the reason why I have just taken delivery of a box of games sent from Germany and that will end up in Kidlington at some point by some route as yet undefined. The french leg was much quicker and easier than getting it sent direct to UK! At the same time both SJS and Spa have some small items that I have been unable to source in the EU and that will undoubtedly be waiting for me when I visit in january. Keeping the wheels of international commerce turning is fun - balls to Brexit and all that!
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Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in. If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take. You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.
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Right, it took a while in the end but finally have a 'bent build and ridable.
In the end it took almost 6 weeks for ParcelForce to sort themselves out and get the frame delivered. On the plus side it was in good condition and undamaged when it did finally get delivered. On the down side it was the wrong colour! At some point there had been a mix up at Velomotions end and I got a white frame and not a yellow one as ordered. Rather than messing about returning it and getting mixed up with customs and ParcelForce again Igor agreed to refund me the cost of getting it resprayed here. That took another week or so but I'm really happy with the end result. There was nothing wrong with the quality of the original paintwork, it was just the wrong colour!
Assembly was a learning curve. I used my Audax bike as a donor for running gear, wheels etc. While it was mostly straight forward there were a couple of places were the tolerances on the frame were a fraction out but a combination of very careful dremmel work and sand paper got it sorted. I very nearly cut the donor fork steerer too short but caught the detail in the instructions from Igor just in time.
I experimented with thumb shifters but just couldn't get a good setup with them on the superman bars so plumped for bar end shifters in the end. The MTB specific shifters from Microshift aren't cheap but they are really well made and work perfectly with the Deore XT rear mech from the donor bike (It had very silly gearing with an 11-50 cassette).
I started out with SPD pedals but very quickly switched to flats after flailing madly trying to get my feet in them and weaving like a drunk puppy all over the road on my first couple of tries at riding it. Flats have worked out really well and I'll be sticking with them I think. I'm still working on final details like where to mount the Garmin, lights, mudguard position etc. Debating making the seat angle a bit lower, but that will mean I have to shorten the steerer tube to see over it, so it can wait for a bit I think. Started on the highest position but found that reducing it a couple of steps actually made it easier to ride.
I've clocked up around 50km on it so far with only one fall when I messed up a gear change on a steepish hill and lost my balance. Otherwise going well so far. My only real issue atm is slow moving traffic, I still need more practice at slow speed balance, anything under 5mph and it gets very iffy and pulling away in traffic is still a bit hit and miss. Doing 30 mins a day just practicing atm, with my longest ride being today, doing an hour mostly on quiet local lanes. Looking forward to being able to get out longer and further with an eye on getting back to Audax next year.
In the mean time here is a picture of the Flying Banana as my wife has dubbed it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53206265048_bf28321b00_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo)
That looks like a nice bike! I thought about a Velomotion when I was looking around for a new touring bent. I ended up building up a Pelso using a frameset from Socks - thanks again Socks!
I think you said you were on 11-speed; if you ever decide you want closer gear ratios the Microshift 11-32 11speed cassette works very nicely with the M7000 derailleur - I assume your derailleur would be similarly specced and is supposed to need a minimum of 40T for the largest cog. Shimano being ultra conservative again.
Those bars look quite high. Depends on your height but I find I get the most unobstructed forwards view with the bars as low as possible without risking hitting your shins (very painful!). I can usually get them low enough that the bars are roughly in a line from my eyes to the top of the derailleur post. That entails chopping a bit off the riser - measure twice, cut once!
Hope you rapidly take to the new machine!
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That does look very nice :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.
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Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in. If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take. You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.
I'm inclined to agree, but foot-slippage is merely annoying on a bike, rather than actively dangerous as on a tadpole trike. If flats inspire confidence, then fine. But reconsider foot retention once riding the bike is second nature, as having your legs supported is nice.
I'd also go as far to say that SPDs specifically are a bit rubbish on recumbents, as they develop play as the pedal (not the cleat) wears that results in an irritating click if your pedalling action doesn't maintain positive pressure on the pedal throughout the stroke (as it usually does on an upright). This is how I ended up with Time ATAC (which are pleasingly click-free) on one recumbent, Look Keo on the other (because racing), SPD on my uprights (still the best when you need to clip in and out quickly for off-roading or mixing with pedestrians) and more cycling shoes than Imelda Marcos.
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That looks like a nice bike! I thought about a Velomotion when I was looking around for a new touring bent. I ended up building up a Pelso using a frameset from Socks - thanks again Socks!
I think you said you were on 11-speed; if you ever decide you want closer gear ratios the Microshift 11-32 11speed cassette works very nicely with the M7000 derailleur - I assume your derailleur would be similarly specced and is supposed to need a minimum of 40T for the largest cog. Shimano being ultra conservative again.
Those bars look quite high. Depends on your height but I find I get the most unobstructed forwards view with the bars as low as possible without risking hitting your shins (very painful!). I can usually get them low enough that the bars are roughly in a line from my eyes to the top of the derailleur post. That entails chopping a bit off the riser - measure twice, cut once!
Hope you rapidly take to the new machine!
It's got an 11-40 cassette on it atm. I tried the 11-50 originally on the wheel but it actually lifts the chain too high in the 50t and it rubs the underside of the frame!
Still playing with seat position, I can see over the top of the bars ok atm, but if I recline the seat position any more then I'll need to cut the steerer so I'm putting that off for now.
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That does look very nice :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.
Yeah, I am noticing the front end is a bit twitchy, especially at low speed or uphill although I am getting used to it. Torque steer seems to be an issue but I'm learning to manage it and not grip the bars too tight in response. As you say though there's not a lot I can do about it other than maybe try a 650b wheel on the front to lower the front end and change the weight distribution a bit.
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Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in. If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take. You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.
I'm inclined to agree, but foot-slippage is merely annoying on a bike, rather than actively dangerous as on a tadpole trike. If flats inspire confidence, then fine. But reconsider foot retention once riding the bike is second nature, as having your legs supported is nice.
I'd also go as far to say that SPDs specifically are a bit rubbish on recumbents, as they develop play as the pedal (not the cleat) wears that results in an irritating click if your pedalling action doesn't maintain positive pressure on the pedal throughout the stroke (as it usually does on an upright). This is how I ended up with Time ATAC (which are pleasingly click-free) on one recumbent, Look Keo on the other (because racing), SPD on my uprights (still the best when you need to clip in and out quickly for off-roading or mixing with pedestrians) and more cycling shoes than Imelda Marcos.
Yep, definitely sticking with flats for the time being. I've got some SPD's but I'll leave them for now, especially as my flat shoes are really comfortable (Adidas Five Tens). I'm also finding that I'm riding with amore mid-foot position on this compared to the uprights which I can do in the flats but SPD's would be trickier.
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After many years riding conventional bikes I've just been told I almost certainly have early onset arthritis in my neck and possibly both shoulders. Still waiting for a full diagnosis but right now riding more than an hour leaves me in severe pain and with tingling sensations in both hands.
Assuming there is no medical fix I have been looking into recumbents as a solution to keep riding and was wondering if anyone had the same sort of issues and found the a 'bent helped keep them the road?
Also, are there any recumbent dealers in the UK? I'm struggling to find any other than Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh.
Finally, any suggestions on what bike to go for? Aiming for general riding with Audax's and some light touring thrown in. I've see the Pelso / Brevet which would be in budget and appeals as I could transplant brakes, wheels, crankset etc from my current bike but, I've no real idea if it's any good or not.
Thanks in advance for any answers.
Saddle Safari in Marlow are ICE recumbent trike dealers and IMHO you wont get a better machine than an ICE, if you are anywhere North(ish) Oxfordshire I am happy to let you try mine (not for sale )
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I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804
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I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804
I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic
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I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804
I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic
Yes, Cycle-Con does seem to attract a certain demographic. Where else would you see an ICE flag and a "Trump 2024" hat on the same person... (https://youtu.be/4OMGEvmKj8w?t=1188)
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Quick update.
Surgery on my left shoulder last week to try and alleviate some of the issues. It's not a long term fix and wont get me back on an upright but it should stop things getting any worse for the time being.
So, 'bent is now on the turbo for a few weeks while the shoulder recovers. Taken the opportunity to fit a bodged up headrest as I was finding the tension in core from keeping my head up with the seat further back was becoming an issue. Used the rails from an old saddle attached to the back of the seat with some pipe lagging for padding.
Also using this as a chance to play with bar height and reach. Currently got an 80mm stem on there but going to swap out for a 40mm or 30mm to improve my hand position as it's a bit of a stretch atm. Once that's sorted then it's the big step of cutting the steerer to lower the bars. Can't just lower the stem as the riser is too wide, it uses an insert on the top to attach the stem. Will be taking it slowly in 5 or 10mm increments.
Once that's sorted then I can look at reclining the seat a bit further without having line of sight blocked by the top of the steerer and bars. Will have to wait and see if that gives me enough extra aero benefit to beat my current 40mph downhill top speed.
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I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804
I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic
Yes, Cycle-Con does seem to attract a certain demographic. Where else would you see an ICE flag and a "Trump 2024" hat on the same person... (https://youtu.be/4OMGEvmKj8w?t=1188)
Was that Richard Branson first out the door?
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Quick update.
Surgery on my left shoulder last week to try and alleviate some of the issues. It's not a long term fix and wont get me back on an upright but it should stop things getting any worse for the time being.
So, 'bent is now on the turbo for a few weeks while the shoulder recovers. Taken the opportunity to fit a bodged up headrest as I was finding the tension in core from keeping my head up with the seat further back was becoming an issue. Used the rails from an old saddle attached to the back of the seat with some pipe lagging for padding.
Also using this as a chance to play with bar height and reach. Currently got an 80mm stem on there but going to swap out for a 40mm or 30mm to improve my hand position as it's a bit of a stretch atm. Once that's sorted then it's the big step of cutting the steerer to lower the bars. Can't just lower the stem as the riser is too wide, it uses an insert on the top to attach the stem. Will be taking it slowly in 5 or 10mm increments.
Once that's sorted then I can look at reclining the seat a bit further without having line of sight blocked by the top of the steerer and bars. Will have to wait and see if that gives me enough extra aero benefit to beat my current 40mph downhill top speed.
Not sure what bike you are talking about here, but I swapped out the front 700c wheel for a 26" on my M5 for forward vision purposes.
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Not sure what bike you are talking about here, but I swapped out the front 700c wheel for a 26" on my M5 for forward vision purposes.
This one.
Right, it took a while in the end but finally have a 'bent built and ridable.
In the end it took almost 6 weeks for ParcelForce to sort themselves out and get the frame delivered. On the plus side it was in good condition and undamaged when it did finally get delivered. On the down side it was the wrong colour! At some point there had been a mix up at Velomotions end and I got a white frame and not a yellow one as ordered. Rather than messing about returning it and getting mixed up with customs and ParcelForce again Igor agreed to refund me the cost of getting it resprayed here. That took another week or so but I'm really happy with the end result. There was nothing wrong with the quality of the original paintwork, it was just the wrong colour!
Assembly was a learning curve. I used my Audax bike as a donor for running gear, wheels etc. While it was mostly straight forward there were a couple of places were the tolerances on the frame were a fraction out but a combination of very careful dremmel work and sand paper got it sorted. I very nearly cut the donor fork steerer too short but caught the detail in the instructions from Igor just in time.
I experimented with thumb shifters but just couldn't get a good setup with them on the superman bars so plumped for bar end shifters in the end. The MTB specific shifters from Microshift aren't cheap but they are really well made and work perfectly with the Deore XT rear mech from the donor bike (It had very silly gearing with an 11-50 cassette).
I started out with SPD pedals but very quickly switched to flats after flailing madly trying to get my feet in them and weaving like a drunk puppy all over the road on my first couple of tries at riding it. Flats have worked out really well and I'll be sticking with them I think. I'm still working on final details like where to mount the Garmin, lights, mudguard position etc. Debating making the seat angle a bit lower, but that will mean I have to shorten the steerer tube to see over it, so it can wait for a bit I think. Started on the highest position but found that reducing it a couple of steps actually made it easier to ride.
I've clocked up around 50km on it so far with only one fall when I messed up a gear change on a steepish hill and lost my balance. Otherwise going well so far. My only real issue atm is slow moving traffic, I still need more practice at slow speed balance, anything under 5mph and it gets very iffy and pulling away in traffic is still a bit hit and miss. Doing 30 mins a day just practicing atm, with my longest ride being today, doing an hour mostly on quiet local lanes. Looking forward to being able to get out longer and further with an eye on getting back to Audax next year.
In the mean time here is a picture of the Flying Banana as my wife has dubbed it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53206265048_bf28321b00_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo) (https://flic.kr/p/2p4E1Vo)
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That does look very nice :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.
Yeah, I am noticing the front end is a bit twitchy, especially at low speed or uphill although I am getting used to it. Torque steer seems to be an issue but I'm learning to manage it and not grip the bars too tight in response. As you say though there's not a lot I can do about it other than maybe try a 650b wheel on the front to lower the front end and change the weight distribution a bit.
Weight distribution is not really that much of an issue with recumbents when it comes to steering twitchyness [must be a better word], it has more to do with the relationship between the rake of the front wheel/the headtube angle and the consequent trail [all of which is better understood by doing so research as opposed to me trying to explain it]. But generally speaking - the more trail you have, the greater the sense of self-centring [especially at speed] but the more wheel flop will be apparent - which is the inclination for the bike to lean into a 'turn' once you start cornering. What this means going up a hill is a bike that has a tendency to fall over over more easily because trying to control that sense of wheel flop gets problematic when you're going that much slower - it feels like you're kind of 'fighting' with the steering. A small amount of trail is more likely to give a less stable bike at speed [perfectly safe, but more sensitive], but potentially far more stable when climbing. There may be some twitchiness, but the twitchiness doesn't necessarily mean less stability because there's far less wheel flop - the bike doesn't want to turn into the steering input.
On top of all that, you have distance of the handlebars from the headtube - another factor that can affect handling a lot.
If you change the front wheel this will affect the dynamic of all these things, which will, in turn affect the handling - for better or for worse [very often that latter].
It's kind of complicated geometry because simple formulas don't always translate into what a bike feels like to you, which is obviously important and like so many things, it's all about compromise and trying out different bikes to see what suits.
One thing I've found quite useful with recumbents is to project yourself forward with the pedals, the front of the bike leads, like the chainset is cutting through the air in front of you, and to pay less attention to what going on with the handlebars. When you're new to recumbents [especially two-wheeled versions] it's easy to get distracted by the movements of the handlebars - sounds a bit odd, but often there's a lot of self-centring that's going on all the time that you just have to let be. Same is true of uprights of course, but it's less obvious. Ride an upright bike and take a look at the front wheel when you're cycling and you will notice it is seldom tracking in a perfectly straight line - the front wheel is constantly moving from left to right in small increments, to keep you upright! Try riding in a perfectly straight line keeping the front wheel locked.....you're not going to get very far!
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One thing I've found quite useful with recumbents is to project yourself forward with the pedals, the front of the bike leads, like the chainset is cutting through the air in front of you, and to pay less attention to what going on with the handlebars. When you're new to recumbents [especially two-wheeled versions] it's easy to get distracted by the movements of the handlebars - sounds a bit odd, but often there's a lot of self-centring that's going on all the time that you just have to let be. Same is true of uprights of course, but it's less obvious. Ride an upright bike and take a look at the front wheel when you're cycling and you will notice it is seldom tracking in a perfectly straight line - the front wheel is constantly moving from left to right in small increments, to keep you upright! Try riding in a perfectly straight line keeping the front wheel locked.....you're not going to get very far!
This is a very useful bit of advice, and I think applies universally, in the sense of "don't get too focussed on the minutiae, but keep your head up and look where you are going" as long as you are heading in the right direction, the microadjustments tend to take care of themselves, leaving you to watch out for pothioles in the immediate pathway, or pedestriand doing stoopid things ahead.
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I think that ties into the habit that some people who've only ridden bikes where you can see the front wheel have of watching the front wheel as part of the steering / balance / knowing where you're going feedback loop. Not being able to see the front wheel breaks that, and it takes a little time to adjust. Which is harder if you're trying to learn to ride a recumbent (rather than say a cargo bike or Brompton with front luggage, which steers in a more familiar manner) at the same time.
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Quick update.
Surgery on my left shoulder last week to try and alleviate some of the issues. It's not a long term fix and wont get me back on an upright but it should stop things getting any worse for the time being.
So, 'bent is now on the turbo for a few weeks while the shoulder recovers. Taken the opportunity to fit a bodged up headrest as I was finding the tension in core from keeping my head up with the seat further back was becoming an issue. Used the rails from an old saddle attached to the back of the seat with some pipe lagging for padding.
Also using this as a chance to play with bar height and reach. Currently got an 80mm stem on there but going to swap out for a 40mm or 30mm to improve my hand position as it's a bit of a stretch atm. Once that's sorted then it's the big step of cutting the steerer to lower the bars. Can't just lower the stem as the riser is too wide, it uses an insert on the top to attach the stem. Will be taking it slowly in 5 or 10mm increments.
Once that's sorted then I can look at reclining the seat a bit further without having line of sight blocked by the top of the steerer and bars. Will have to wait and see if that gives me enough extra aero benefit to beat my current 40mph downhill top speed.
How long is the insert that the stem attaches to? On my old Bacchetta Giro 26 it used a similar system and the insert was quite long which allowed me to cut down the outer steerer tube fairly dramatically and then slide the inner insert up or down to make the finer adjustments to bar height.