libre 2 CGM for endurance athletes (non-diabetic)

[chrisbainbridge]

I have a difficult relationship with high sugar foods and chocolate.  I probably have an "addiction" to such foods.  I found that the keto diet really worked for me and I could ride long distances on the diet without eating.  I accept that this was purely aerobic and was not high HR anaerobic exercise.  Recently I have slipped back and can easily come home from work and eat a packet of Haribos, a bar of dairy milk and multiple other things.  A bar of marzipan is not unusual.

Recently, chatting with my younger son he said that he was exactly the same and cannot have such foods in his flat. (he lives in Brazil and has the luxury of a cook who leaves 6 sets of meals in his fridge every Sunday, allowing for one meal out per week.

I then heard adverts for Supersapiens who have simply taken a Libre 2 CGM and added a website, app and large profit.

The I heard a podcast from the Food Programme about Bread and the Zoe study and their use of CGM to assess sugar spikes after various foods.

On long rides I think I eat adequately but would be interested in how my blood sugar changes on a long ride.  It is possible to buy a Libre 2 from online pharmacies without a prescription.

Has anybody got any non-diabetic experience using CGM to look at how they metabolise sugar, insulin responsiveness, training and what we consider endurance rides?

[ElyDave]

My endocrinologist, when talking about post meal spikes or rises has several times said that its probably equally sharp or even higher in non- diabetics, just with the autonomic response.

In your case it would tell you how you respond, but I'd ask how are you then going to use that data? Are you going to do trials on carbs vs low carb? The sensors last 14 days, so plan ahead, if your looking to test low carb responses I'd prepare for and test that first.

I've not got them on prescription yet, but have bought myself three for use later in the summer, one leading up to, one on tour and a spare to take with me. In my case, its purely to save my fingers from hourly tests.

[chrisbainbridge]

Dave, I fully accept that I am a rich first world medic cyclist with an insatiable interest in new things and developing new techniques. I also love toys and gadgets.
I know that if I eat carbs then I often get a downer and lethargy afterwards and would like to know how my glucose/ insulin actually reacts. Am I actually going “hypo” or relative hypo. What happens when I transition to a Keto diet again properly. If I then take carbs do I react more or less.
I apologise if anybody seriously needing this info thinks I am trivialising the idea. That is not my intention.
I am certainly trying to do it more cheaply than supersapiens who seem to be charging a lot for a libre2 probe and a bit of a custom app

[ElyDave]

I apologise if anybody seriously needing this info thinks I am trivialising the idea. That is not my intention.

I didn't think that was the case at all Chris, it seems to me that you are seriously trying to understand how your body reacts to your diet and exercise, I'm all for that, the more people think about this stuff the heathier we should all end up as a population.  My comments were coming entirely from the point of view of how you design your experiment to get as much out of it as possible.

[chrisbainbridge]

Thank you. It is easy to not write clearly in forums and for the wrong message to be inferred.

[Kim]

Dave, I fully accept that I am a rich first world medic cyclist with an insatiable interest in new things and developing new techniques. I also love toys and gadgets. [...]

If a company make a product that revolutionises life for disabled people, I don't think it's a bad thing if they make a tidy profit selling it as a shiny thing to gadget nerds and posers.  Means they're more likely to stick around developing better products.

Usually it's the other way round: Probably the best example is the iPhone, which is a far better communication/computing device for blind people than the clunky specialist technology that was available at many times the price.

There's also an effect of reducing stigma through normalisation, though this can probably go both ways - "Look that disabled person has an iThing through AtW - ZOMG scrounger!"


I also know of at least one nerdy diabetic who stuck a Libre on a non-diabetic family member for SCIENCE.

[ElyDave]

I also know of at least one nerdy diabetic who stuck a Libre on a non-diabetic family member for SCIENCE.

Coming back from somewhere, I did a test on myself 4.5, need to have a snack before driving.  Just for shits and giggles, test Mrs ED as well, 4.3, but she can just get in a car and drive regardless.

[Rod Marton]

I've done quite a lot of this. In a previous job we were trying to develop a non-invasive blood glucose meter, and in the absence of a diabetic to abuse did a lot of experimentation on ourselves. So, establish a base level, then eat a Mars bar washed down with Lucozade and watch the sugar spike. For a non-diabetic the base level was generally around 4-5 mmol/l and the spike didn't often get above 8. Interferents didn't generally make too much difference: one time I tried a 30 mile fasted ride to work and still got much the same results.

We could definitely see the effect of different foods, though, if we did tests after lunch. I remember that Tesco sandwiches had much the same effect as a Mars bar. Other brands showed a rather lower spike, and a home-made sandwich on home-made bread no spike at all. You may draw your own conclusions.

[ElyDave]

the mars bar itself contains quite high levels of fat, which moderates the steepness of the slope (Glycaemic index).  Try boiled white rice, or beer instead - diabetic kryptonite.

[hellymedic]

White rice has a glycaemic index little different to pure sugar, as far as I know...

[ElyDave]

White rice has a glycaemic index little different to pure sugar, as far as I know...

Which is why I avoid it like the plague

I note we have done our duty as the YACF Massive in totally derailing this thread from its original premise within ten posts 

[chrisbainbridge]

White rice has a glycaemic index little different to pure sugar, as far as I know...

Which is why I avoid it like the plague

I note we have done our duty as the YACF Massive in totally derailing this thread from its original premise within ten posts 

Not quite as all very interesting. Off on holiday now so will probably lylook at buying one when I get back.

[hellymedic]

White rice has a glycaemic index little different to pure sugar, as far as I know...

Which is why I avoid it like the plague
I note we have done our duty as the YACF Massive in totally derailing this thread from its original premise within ten posts 

[Staying half on topic]

I likewise avoid white rice; I'm not diabetic but am prone to reactive hypoglycaemia and have run sugar of 2.8 two hours after breakfast, which can be suboptimal.

[Gattopardo]

White rice has a glycaemic index little different to pure sugar, as far as I know...

Allegesdly basmati rice is better. 

Is rice that cooked and then reheated better like pasta.

[Gattopardo]

the mars bar itself contains quite high levels of fat, which moderates the steepness of the slope (Glycaemic index).  Try boiled white rice, or beer instead - diabetic kryptonite.

Thought beer with more alcohol helped as it kept the liver busy.

With a BG meter kept monotoring every half hour to see what was happening, not much

[ElyDave]

Beer= liquid bread,  about 20g of carbs per pint, all sugars. Quite a good mid or post ride isotonic drink, but drinking beer without food is a surefire recipe for a spike, the synthetic insulin just does not work quickly enough