Author Topic: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays  (Read 2450 times)

Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« on: 26 March, 2011, 09:43:44 am »
I quite fancy a (non-cycling) holiday where I can go and encounter exiting animals (and plants and birds, but mostly animals).* I am aware that in some situations, wildlife tourism is Bad - animals learn to associate humans with food, animals live too closely and fight, animals get stressed by humans etc - but in other cases wildlife tourism is Good - national parks are created, slash-n-burn agriculture is restricted, endangered species are protected, local jobs are created, and so on.

Do people have any suggestions of ethical locations/tours to go to? Also: lions and tigers and bears oh my are boring. Animals must be at least as cute as lemurs! 8)

*It's all Julian's fault: she showed me a brochure for Madagascan holidays. There were lemurs. Lemurs. LEMURS!!!
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Wowbagger

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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #1 on: 26 March, 2011, 09:47:09 am »
A friend of mine went on an African holiday last year which involved walking up to a pride of lions and stroking a lioness. I think of her group, she was the only one to stroke one, the others standing back and bottling out.
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #2 on: 26 March, 2011, 09:50:35 am »
Yebbut lions are boring! :P

Except the ones in the NgoroNgoro crater, where there is a uniquely isolated ecosystem. They're interesting. Because there's practically no migration (due to the crater wall), top predators can support much larger litter sizes than on the general savannah. But I digress.
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #3 on: 26 March, 2011, 09:52:49 am »
I lived in Botswana for a while and I can thoroughly recommend it. There are pretty strict roolz on where you can be taken so you won't get the "More Landrovers than animals" experience you get elsewhere.

Not too many Lemurs unfortunately :'( Loads of big pussy cats though  :)
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #4 on: 26 March, 2011, 09:58:50 am »
So which animals do you want to see ?

We've been on a 3-week self-drive in Namibia and that was fantastic.   But if cats & elephants & zebras & painted dogs 'n'stuff don't do it for you then you'll have to decide based on fauna.  If you want lemurs then the choices may be a tad limited.

Marsupials=antipodes, but apart from kangaroos and wallabies (and possum-things) it's mostly Koalas.  If you want fruit bats & stuff it has to be jungly.  Maybe you should settle on what you want to see and then look for environmentally-friendly ways to see it.

Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #5 on: 26 March, 2011, 10:31:41 am »

Pancho

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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #6 on: 26 March, 2011, 10:44:07 am »
C'mon, guys. Think of your carbon footprint, please.

Seriously.

If the relatively ecologically aware cycling forum can chat away about jetting halfway round the world cuz i wanna see a rilly cute animal without a counter voice, then there really is no hope.

(Fortunately, I am that counter voice so crack on, do your bit to trash the planet.)

Wowbagger

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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #7 on: 26 March, 2011, 11:43:08 am »
Oh yes, of course Pancho's right. It's not possible to do it ethically unless you walk or cycle.
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #8 on: 26 March, 2011, 12:08:16 pm »
My shoulder has been fucked-up for eighteen months. I cannot cycle more than 30 miles. I have just been fucked over by the NHS who have told me to wait another three fucking months (though I'm fighting them).  >:(

So cycling's out, as specified in the OP.  ::-)

Equally, who said anything about "jetting"? My last holiday, we travelled about 1500 miles by train.  O:-)

<refrains from commenting about how many people on an "ecologically aware cycle forum" have that most damaging thing to the environment: children>  ;)
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #9 on: 26 March, 2011, 02:41:53 pm »
I quite fancy a (non-cycling) holiday where I can go and encounter exiting animals (and plants and birds, but mostly animals).* I am aware that in some situations, wildlife tourism is Bad - animals learn to associate humans with food, animals live too closely and fight, animals get stressed by humans etc - but in other cases wildlife tourism is Good - national parks are created, slash-n-burn agriculture is restricted, endangered species are protected, local jobs are created, and so on.

Do people have any suggestions of ethical locations/tours to go to? Also: lions and tigers and bears oh my are boring. Animals must be at least as cute as lemurs! 8)

*It's all Julian's fault: she showed me a brochure for Madagascan holidays. There were lemurs. Lemurs. LEMURS!!!

Elephants' Graveyard....

Wowbagger

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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #10 on: 26 March, 2011, 02:55:52 pm »
<refrains from commenting about how many people on an "ecologically aware cycle forum" have that most damaging thing to the environment: children>  ;)

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robbo6

Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #11 on: 26 March, 2011, 02:58:37 pm »
I think if you asked my late brother-who was something big in London Zoo and went to every continent looking at wildlife-about it he would have said Central or South America for variety of small furry things (pygmy marmosets make people fall over from cuteness overload) plus parrots and hummingbirds. Have you thought about volunteering at a wildlife rescue and rehab. establishment?

Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #12 on: 26 March, 2011, 03:02:23 pm »
The ethics of tourism is a little more complicated than travel CO2 alone.

The vast majority of people in the developing world have far lower CO2 emissions attached to their lifestyles that even ethical* westerners. A big deal is made of carbon trading; are these people not entitled to a little "extra" CO2-by-proxy for what is often a major source of income and social change for them?

Add to this the fact that the alternative to tourism isn't just "no tourists", but instead inefficient and environmentally harmful agriculture and livestock practices, as well as poaching. The game park lands are often marginal to begin with (which is why they were left wild in colonial days), at least in Southern Africa.

By which I don't mean that all tourism is good, but blanket statements that such trips are by definition unethical are also not entirely justifiable. Go for longer periods than the jet-setters, save up and be willing to spend, take care what you spend it on, and global tourism is a perfectly ethical possibility.

The eastern half of South Africa, Kathy. Take a guided walking tour through one of the big parks. On foot the big animals are too difficult to find and scary if you do, so these trips often concentrate on smallandinterestingthings.  Meerkats are at least as cool as lemurs, IMHO. Often the trips come with camping goodness too. The Wild Coast in what used to be the Transkei is also a great area for off-the-beaten-track stuff.  Or Namibia, as MV says.



*Almost regardless of how you define ethical.

Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #13 on: 26 March, 2011, 03:06:12 pm »
lemurs?


Mrs M on a zookeepers day, woburn safari park..  You get to feed the lions and shovel rhino poo too.  

Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #14 on: 26 March, 2011, 04:20:58 pm »
Thanks CL for a more eloquent discussion of ethics than I felt capable of via mobile phone.

So anyway, meerkats are a good idea, and I'm jolly fond of fruit bats (though Tim may be less willing to let me spoffle those, ever since the Jersey Zoo Defecation Incident). Pygmy marmosets sound perfect. Keep the suggestions coming guys! :thumbsup:
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #15 on: 27 March, 2011, 10:53:27 am »
Thanks CL for a more eloquent discussion of ethics than I felt capable of via mobile phone.

So anyway, meerkats are a good idea, and I'm jolly fond of fruit bats (though Tim may be less willing to let me spoffle those, ever since the Jersey Zoo Defecation Incident). Pygmy marmosets sound perfect. Keep the suggestions coming guys! :thumbsup:

Good points CL.

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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #16 on: 28 March, 2011, 10:58:56 pm »
We went to the Galapagos.
It were frikkin great.
There was no stroking allowed.

I suspect it is probably coming under pressure from too much tourism these days though.
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #17 on: 29 March, 2011, 11:21:11 am »
There are loads of lemurs in Bristol zoo. And when you're tired of lemurs, you can go for a walk over the Suspension Bridge and then have a picnic on the Downs. It'll be just like a safari!
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Re: Ethical Animal-Spoffling Holidays
« Reply #18 on: 29 March, 2011, 12:09:35 pm »
I took family to a zooplace in zomerzet somewhere that had wallabies and all sorts. When you sat down for lunch, the wallabies were liable to hop up and sit with you.

They had wolves, too. Not for stroking tho' - they got a bit nervous.
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