Author Topic: Pronunciation that makes you cringe  (Read 147298 times)

clarion

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #100 on: 12 October, 2014, 11:57:20 pm »
And, on a similar subject, though not so common these days (I heard it recently, mind): Reading 'CCCP' as if it were not Cyrillics.
Getting there...

ian

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #101 on: 13 October, 2014, 11:27:51 am »
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D


I like the long drawn out 'ham' in Birmingham, Alabama, which makes sense because the one thing they most surely do like in the South is a nice piece of pig.

Pronunciation checking is another form of knobeditry, gets on my wick to be honest, especially with the curiously affected pronunciations of cod-latin (from native speakers, obviously) or do-it-like-a-local nonsense.

Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

Basil

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #102 on: 13 October, 2014, 11:59:16 am »
Oi, John Humphreys.  Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)

Fair cop, guv.   :facepalm:
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Kim

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #103 on: 13 October, 2014, 12:57:03 pm »
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #104 on: 13 October, 2014, 01:59:52 pm »
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
But not papier-mâché.
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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #105 on: 13 October, 2014, 02:35:28 pm »
My recent (very enjoyable) visit to Canada showed me that
1.  Canadian French sounds different to French French and common-use phrases may differ.
2.  Canadians in one town have a different accent to Canadians in another town even if they are not that far apart (in the Canadian sense of not being    far apart).
3.  Canada is very definitely not the USA.  It really isn't, they aren't just pretending.
4. It is a country I'd like to revisit.
Move Faster and Bake Things

ian

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #106 on: 13 October, 2014, 02:51:33 pm »
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).

I'm not sure. If you're not speaking French, why make the effort to pretend, it always comes off a bit pretentious. I blame the BBC, it's payback for all the northern accents. Do Jesus and the Queen sound like they come from Manchester? No, and for good reason.

The French don't exactly try with English. They even the make that exquisitely gallic pouty-pouty poo face when they hear Québécois, like someone has been sick in their bouillabaisse.

Still, there is something a little bit special when the young person behind the counter at Mcdonalds corrects your 'fillet o' fish' like the most snooty of Parisian waiters. Oh you mean fillet. It goes both ways though, many years ago in Texas I remember asking for the buffet breakfast. Cue blank look from the waitress. 'The buffet? said I, hopeful of overcoming our linguistic impasse through the medium of repetition. "Oh, you mean the bur-fit,' came the final spark of understanding.

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #107 on: 13 October, 2014, 03:15:02 pm »
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.

I don't think that's particularly odd.  Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough.  Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle.  Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.

I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).

The French are impervious to the idea of pronouncing foreign words the foreign way. Some years ago, on the occasion of Nev Chanin retiring as organiser of the Dieppe Raid, the Mayor of that town gave a speech in praise of Nev, in French and in excellent English. But in the French version 'Chanin' was perfectly frenchified.

Most English people I know will render at least proper names in an approximation of their original pronunciation.

Steph

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #108 on: 13 October, 2014, 06:46:06 pm »
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Wowbagger

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #109 on: 13 October, 2014, 09:42:28 pm »
My mum used to send me next door for a coup de gras when she had run out of dripping.
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T42

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #110 on: 13 October, 2014, 09:47:39 pm »
In French the "u" sound gets a lot of UKians, who tend to bring it out like the "oo" in "too".  I have no trouble with either sound now, but back when we were first in France I used to get them mixed up occasionally, so that one day my polite "merci beaucoup" to a waitress came out as "merci beau cul", i.e. "thank-you, beautiful bum". Got me a smile.

Funnily enough, German has the same sort of pitfall.  "Heut ists schwul" will get you queer looks.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Steph

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #111 on: 13 October, 2014, 09:51:18 pm »
You meant "Oh Calcutta", of course.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #112 on: 14 October, 2014, 06:38:26 am »
In French the "u" sound gets a lot of UKians, who tend to bring it out like the "oo" in "too".  I have no trouble with either sound now, but back when we were first in France I used to get them mixed up occasionally, so that one day my polite "merci beaucoup" to a waitress came out as "merci beau cul", i.e. "thank-you, beautiful bum". Got me a smile.

Funnily enough, German has the same sort of pitfall.  "Heut ists schwul" will get you queer looks.
I've given up using schwul as my pronunciation of u and ü is too similar - I use feucht now.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #113 on: 14 October, 2014, 07:03:47 am »
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
But not papier-mâché.

Niche should always be pronounced the French way.  Fillet depends on context - I would fill it a fish but ask for a fee yay de burf if it were written in French on a menu. 

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #114 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:15:28 am »
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
A silent point or a moot one?

(This thread is a repository for pedants, after all)

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #115 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:35:28 am »
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole

Bir-ming-ham   ;D

I've been saying for years that the BBC should pronounce place names as they're pronounced by the people who live there.

Burrmoingum

Basil

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #116 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:39:14 am »
I hear it more as half way between
Beer mingum
&
Bear mingum
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #117 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:39:17 am »
Dr Carl Chinn tried to put me right on the correct pronunciation of “Solihull”.

I said to him in a whisper “If its on your birth certificate, you can pronounce it any way you fucking like.”

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #118 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:44:42 am »
Tidbury Green, ‘Tibbury Green’.

Whitlocks End, ‘Wittocks End’.

Tanworth in Arden, “Tannuth in Ardun’.

Birmingham, ‘Brummegem’.

Aston, ‘Shitole’

Basil

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #119 on: 14 October, 2014, 11:48:44 am »
 ;D
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #120 on: 14 October, 2014, 01:56:33 pm »
Lah-tay.  Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.

And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
A silent point or a moot one?

(This thread is a repository for pedants, after all)
See my earlier post referring to 'mute points'
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #121 on: 14 October, 2014, 09:13:23 pm »
The BBCs random way of pronouncing the names of some foreign countries people or places with what is an attempt at the local pronunciation and not for others. It changes overnight seemingly as well.
Its pointless silly and just confusing. They never say Paree instead of Paris and its still Germany not Deutschland but other places get changed at random.
Hugo Chavez is one of the ones you hear all the time. I know a Spanish speaker pronounces Hugo Ugo but we aren't Spanish. They don't pronounce Irish names with an Irish accent for gods sake.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #122 on: 15 October, 2014, 01:10:27 pm »
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
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T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #123 on: 15 October, 2014, 01:25:32 pm »
I read years ago that the BBC's pronunciation unit debated for days before arriving at an understandable pronunciation of Krushchev.  The result was very different from the Russian pronunciation but they explained that if they had used that nobody would have been able to connect it with the westernised spelling, and the newsreaders would have had tremendous difficulty; so they compromised.  The idea was to be close to the original if possible, but failing that to be comprehensible and consistent.

Alas, the pronunciation unit was scrapped years ago.

WRT pronouncing people's names the way they do, when I was at school we had two blokes who spelt their names McCullough.  One of them pronounced it that way, the other as McCulla.  Our bitch of a music mistress used to tell him off for correcting her every time she deliberately got it wrong.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Mr Larrington

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Re: Pronunciation that makes you cringe
« Reply #124 on: 15 October, 2014, 02:57:04 pm »
How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?

"Chee-tin' Bar-stud".  In an Irish accent.
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