Can I train short to ride long?

[Steeplechasing]

Am planning to ride my first Audax on October 28th. I'm 61.  I've barely ridden at all since an accident 3 years ago which broke my knee, damaged my hip and badly affected my confidence.

Audax events appeal from a confidence viewpoint - working, rightly, I hope, on the basis that they'll be on fairly quiet roads and that the presence of a number of cyclists will prime drivers to be more alert than they might be with a lone rider (though I'm likely to be the tail-ender, so perhaps it's not such a good idea, after all)

I'm unsure how my knee and hip will hold up to long miles in training. Will long training rides cause further wear to the old injuries, or will any such damage be compensated for in other ways?

Could I get by on, say, 12 to 15 hilly rides of 20 miles each between now and the event?

In running/walking, I've always been a textbook example of a plodder, finding that, if I'm reasonably fit, I will plod on to the end. Would this 'plodability' transfer to cycling and stand the test of a 106km ride (with 1280m of climbing), or am I crazy to even consider it?

[PaulF]

I'm not an expert but if you're worried about aggravating injuries on a training ride is plunging into a longer ride a good idea?  If it were me I'd rather build up to it more gradually

[jsabine]

'Plodability' sounds ideal for audaxing. But if you've really barely ridden for the past three years, I'd be reluctant to step directly from 20miles/30km up to 100km. I'd be a little happier with one or two of say 60km, which should also give you a feel for how you're feeling after three or four hours out on the bike.

[Kim]

Someone who knows about training will be along shortly, no doubt, but where comfort and injury (and other audax-relevant issues, like digestion) are concerned, only time can really tell what your body will do, I reckon.

2 hours on the bike is about the threshold where those things start to become relevant.  So while 20 mile rides will undoubtedly improve your cycling fitness, they won't actually tell you whether there's something hideously wrong with your bike fit / saddle / digestion / etc.  Injuries are a personal thing, and if yours are untested, then there's not really any way of knowing what they'll do on a longer ride.

The corollary to that is that - injuries aside - it's usually feasible to double the longest distance you've been comfortable riding, if you're prepared to slow down and/or suffer a bit.  By which logic going from 20 miles to 100k isn't entirely unrealistic.  I'd really want to get a 35-40 miler in at some point first, though.

I work to a 1000m of climbing per 100km rule of thumb for 'normal' hilliness, so 1280m isn't massively hilly.  Of course, there's a big difference between constantly rolling and a couple of big climbs - one may suit your riding style better.

[mattc]

Because of Kim's points above, and because we have no idea of your genetic ability, its a complete gamble.

I say JFDI. What's the worst? A 50km taxi ride. Which would be very very unlucky!

(I might say something different for a really long ride).

[rafletcher]

If you've not been riding I suspect that discomfort from bars/saddle/shoes would probably be the worst things you'd feel on the ride, plus not being able to walk properly the next day  . As MattC says, JFDI and plod along, and listen to your body.

[contango]

Am planning to ride my first Audax on October 28th. I'm 61.  I've barely ridden at all since an accident 3 years ago which broke my knee, damaged my hip and badly affected my confidence.

Audax events appeal from a confidence viewpoint - working, rightly, I hope, on the basis that they'll be on fairly quiet roads and that the presence of a number of cyclists will prime drivers to be more alert than they might be with a lone rider (though I'm likely to be the tail-ender, so perhaps it's not such a good idea, after all)

I'm unsure how my knee and hip will hold up to long miles in training. Will long training rides cause further wear to the old injuries, or will any such damage be compensated for in other ways?

Could I get by on, say, 12 to 15 hilly rides of 20 miles each between now and the event?

In running/walking, I've always been a textbook example of a plodder, finding that, if I'm reasonably fit, I will plod on to the end. Would this 'plodability' transfer to cycling and stand the test of a 106km ride (with 1280m of climbing), or am I crazy to even consider it?

I'm not medically qualified, which I say just so you know how much value to give my words.

If you haven't cycled for three years I'd suggest working up to rides of longer than 20 miles before attempting something more like 70 miles. The sort of thing I'd be inclined to do is slowly increase the distance and see how you get on. If you find you do a 20-mile ride and at the end of it your knee and hip are fine then push to 30 miles, then 40 etc. Make sure the terrain you're training on is as comparable to the audax route as possible. 1280m of climbing in 106km isn't a super-hard ride but could be fairly lumpy, so if your local area is mostly flat you'll want to find some hills.

Also compare the time you're taking to cover your training rides with the time you'll have available to cover the audax. If you have to maintain 15kph for the audax, try and maintain a higher speed for your shorter rides. If you're struggling to maintain 15kph overall speed for 40km the chances of you keeping it up for 106km aren't good; if you can easily maintain 35kph for 40km then things are looking pretty good.

Plodding is good. There are a few of us who plod through.

[tom_e]

I'm unsure how my knee and hip will hold up to long miles in training. Will long training rides cause further wear to the old injuries, or will any such damage be compensated for in other ways?

You won't know until you get started, but I'd say make sure you give yourself a chance to recover between rides.  Get started now.  Do a 10 mile ride, see how you recover.  Once you've done a couple and know the answer to that, do a 20 mile ride.  See how you recover from that.  I think you'll be alright, but it's better to pause a day too long between rides than overdo it and get injured.

Could I get by on, say, 12 to 15 hilly rides of 20 miles each between now and the event?

My guess would be yes, but
a) You need to do those 12 to 15 rides without getting hurt.  Listen to your body.
b) One or two of 40 miles would help greatly with knowledge and confidence.

In running/walking, I've always been a textbook example of a plodder, finding that, if I'm reasonably fit, I will plod on to the end. Would this 'plodability' transfer to cycling and stand the test of a 106km ride (with 1280m of climbing), or am I crazy to even consider it?

Yes, best thing about audax, imo.  If it gets too hard, eat some more food. 

[hellymedic]

My standard advice to address minor discomforts before they become major pains applies in spades.

Keep going, keep comfortable, keep eating, keep drinking, keep peeing, keep smiling, keep going...

[contango]

If it gets too hard, eat some more food. 

... and take full advantage of the opportunity to eat more cake as a medical necessity

[Pancho]

Many years ago I was a cycling newbie replete with brand new cheap hybrid. My first weeks of commuting 10 miles e/w to work were ghastly physical experiences. I barely made it. I was seriously unfit. But within three months I found that I could cycle 100 miles with no training whatsoever - purely on the back of commuting.

Not sure how applicable my experience is to your situation as I wasn't recovering from injury (but was recovering from being a lazy fatty - which is much the same). But I was impressed at how little "training" (ie none) was required.

[T42]

I would gradually increase distances over the next weeks and, as Helly says, analyse and take care of the pains as they arise.

And see if you can get a profile of the course (or better still the GPX) so that you can analyse it for slopes etc.  I have a dodgy ankle cartilage that can't take heavy slopes any more (15%'ll do it every time) so these days (with doctor's blessing) I bung in a Naproxen before riding anything over 100k - what doesn't get inflamed is less liable to do damage.

[Si_Co]

I work on the theory that I can do in a single effort my usual weekly mileage, so if i have a big ride coming up in the few weeks before I'll extend commutes, increase weekend mileage and then have a rest for the 2 or 3 days before. At this point I'm itching to go.

As long as I listen to what my body is telling me during the ride and pace sensibly it works fine.

[T42]

^^^yup, pace yourself.  On Audaxes there's usually a bunch of strong riders who hare away at the start. They're poison for the more, er, stately, because the temptation to hang on the back and slipstream then can be very strong. Then 20 or 30 or 50k in you're gasping and cramping, they still haven't slowed down and they won't either. Let 'em go.  At the start there'll probably be a few more sober types around that you can hook up with.  The other bunch won't eat all the cake.

[Steeplechasing]

My standard advice to address minor discomforts before they become major pains applies in spades.

Keep going, keep comfortable, keep eating, keep drinking, keep peeing, keep smiling, keep going...

Eh, that third last one in your list...am I allowed to get off the bike for it?   

Thanks to all for what seems very sensible advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
Joe

[Dibdib]

^^^yup, pace yourself.  On Audaxes there's usually a bunch of strong riders who hare away at the start. They're poison for the more, er, stately, because the temptation to hang on the back and slipstream then can be very strong. Then 20 or 30 or 50k in you're gasping and cramping, they still haven't slowed down and they won't either. Let 'em go.  At the start there'll probably be a few more sober types around that you can hook up with.  The other bunch won't eat all the cake.

I absolutely agree with this. Apart from my token one-randonneur-per-year, I almost never ride more than 100km at a time (and rarely that - most of my rides are 30-50km ish) so doubling up to 200km hurts. So I set myself three rules to help myself get around in the time limit without blowing up:

1. No chasing the fast guys at the start. They'll tear your legs off and you'll pay for it later.
2. Eat something at every control. Even if you're not hungry - you'll want the energy later.
3. No faffing around unnecessarily. Even if you've got plenty of time in hand - you might regret it later.

I have also found that shorter quicker rides, such as chasing a club ride around for 50-60km, has helped me plod along further at a reasonable baseline pace, so I wouldn't discount the shorter rides either.

[hellymedic]

My standard advice to address minor discomforts before they become major pains applies in spades.

Keep going, keep comfortable, keep eating, keep drinking, keep peeing, keep smiling, keep going...

Eh, that third last one in your list...am I allowed to get off the bike for it?   

Thanks to all for what seems very sensible advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
Joe

Do get off the bike. Urine is very corrosive and needs to be kept well away from Sensitive Skin when riding.
If this means using a tissue or loo roll for that Wimbledon¹, do it.

This not the Tour de France and you are not Stephen Roche.

1) Douglas Adams, Meaning of Liff

[Steeplechasing]

My standard advice to address minor discomforts before they become major pains applies in spades.

Keep going, keep comfortable, keep eating, keep drinking, keep peeing, keep smiling, keep going...

Eh, that third last one in your list...am I allowed to get off the bike for it?   

Thanks to all for what seems very sensible advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
Joe

Do get off the bike. Urine is very corrosive and needs to be kept well away from Sensitive Skin when riding.
If this means using a tissue or loo roll for that Wimbledon¹, do it.

This not the Tour de France and you are not Stephen Roche.

1) Douglas Adams, Meaning of Liff

If a trickle of urine corrodes
And our bladders are under strong loads
Will the riders lament in an Audax event
When we all have to carry commodes?

[hellymedic]

My advice to the riders is this,
Dismount, use a toilet to piss,
The comfort you'll get,
If your barss isn't wet,
Means riding a long way is bliss!

[Steeplechasing]

My advice to the riders is this,
Dismount, use a toilet to piss,
The comfort you'll get,
If your barss isn't wet,
Means riding a long way is bliss!

On earning points out of 10 for quick wit, you're an 8

[Chamford Sideplate]

You could train short to ride long. But high intensity intervals put a lot of stress on joints and tendons. So you need a wide base of long steady distance to start from. Where you are, long and steady would be best, power climbing intervals the worst. As someone said earlier increase distance a small amount each week. You'll be good to go when you are comfortable over half the event distance. You won't perhaps ride it at pace but you will survive if you pace yourself.

[JBB]

I have a knee that I damaged skiing, if I do too much stomping on the pedals it lets me know....  As a result I have made a big effort to learn to spin.  This means you need to measure your cadence but it works for me.

[Ningishzidda]

Fitness is defined as the ability to transport oxygen to the muscles when they are asked to do some work.
For this, capillarisation must be extensive. The very small blood vessels that go to muscle bundles shrink back if work is minimal.
To get ‘fit’ the only way is to push the muscles to work harder than before to stimulate capillarisation.

Capillarisation, Cardio, Pulmonary and muscle bundle recruitment go together.

To increase ability to perform sub-max for extended time IS NOT performing sub-max for extended time. Its performing MAX for short periods of time to stimulate all four body systems to develop.
A timetrialist will perform a Functional Threshold Power test for 20 minutes at 105% of the previous measurement. This will provide stimulation for the cyclist to perform for 60 minutes at 100%.

An Audax cyclist ought to train as if they were a timetrialist. On the event, the difference between the rider’s potential and demand will be greater, therefore it will seem easier.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Huge over simplification there. Your definition of 'fitness' only looks at one aspect of physiology, as do your statements about training.

For example, one limiting aspect of fitness for ultra distance cyclists is the ability of the core body muscles and ligaments to cope with the sustained period in one position. Failure can cope can result in problems like Shermer's neck.
The durability of the muscles and ligaments is an aspect of fitness.

[Ningishzidda]

Huge over simplification there. Your definition of 'fitness' only looks at one aspect of physiology, as do your statements about training.

For example, one limiting aspect of fitness for ultra distance cyclists is the ability of the core body muscles and ligaments to cope with the sustained period in one position. Failure can cope can result in problems like Shermer's neck.
The durability of the muscles and ligaments is an aspect of fitness.

Sorry.

What you are describing is "Stamina".

You are correct however that stamina can only be improved by doing the time based duration of the work.  , usually in excess of the event itself.