Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Ctrl-Alt-Del => Topic started by: Charlotte on 09 July, 2008, 11:54:54 am
-
My laptop's giving me the right hump. Bloody thing's got a perfectly good spec for XP, but it keeps on b0rking to the BSOD and won't play ball at all. Given how cheap new lappys are these days, my patience would appear to have a value and I think it might be easier just to buy a new one and have done with it.
Now, I tend to use my eeePC for browsing, email and stuff on the move and I'm really happy with it. Xubuntu and Open Office is proving to be quite reliable and ideal for 99% of my needs. Problem is, I really need a Windows machine to run Citrix to get into work from home and now that I've bought a GPS, I'm going to need to run the software on an M$ box. Plus, I want to watch and burn DVDs.
But I can't bring myself to by one of the plethora of cheap laptops that I see at ebuyer.com, which all seem to ship with Vista. I've read enough about Vista to know that it's broken by design and I don't want it. XP was well good enough for my needs. Even Morgan Computers don't seem to do an XP machine any more!
I don't want to buy a laptop with Vista pre-installed and then have to dick about downgrading it to XP - I just want to open the box and for it to work.
What do you advise?
-
Get a Mac you know it makes sense ;D
-
::-)
I knew someone would say that! Actually, were it not for the fact that I need a Windows machine to run work software and the GPS stuff, I probably would.
-
Why not just format it then start afresh?
-
I dunno - several of the programmers here have bought laptops with Vista pre-installed. They are happy with them. These are C and Python programmers. A fairly fussy bunch.
They got big widescreen desktop replacement types. Do you want me to ask them what they are?
-
Don't some of the Dells now come with XP?
Worth having a look at their website...
-
Why not just format it then start afresh?
You think I've not tried that with the old one?
Several times?
Liz has lost patience with me swearing at the bloody thing...
I don't want to have to acquire a copy of XP and arse about with drivers and such. I just want to switch it on and use it. I'm fed up.
-
Xp no longer being sold from the begining of the month.
-
You can run windows on a mac
Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Features - Boot Camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html)
and it probably runs better !
-
Xp no longer being sold from the begining of the month.
If this is true, all is lost :(
-
What's the problem with formatting?
-
Don't some of the Dells now come with XP?
Worth having a look at their website...
They do
You just have to watch that in some cases you pay the same for a machine with a lower spec than the Vista version
I got a Dell with Vista last year with the express purpose of Ubuntu-ing it, but i do use it with Vista as dual boot for odd bits that need it. It seems fine - given that XP support will be withering away - lack of drivers for new hardware - it might be worth considering Vista
-
Xp no longer being sold from the begining of the month.
If this is true, all is lost :(
It's true. I'm not sure quite which month, and there'll be old stock, and they will still ship it in some markets (and for the eeePC. so all is not quite lost.
-
According to MS Vista has only 18 months to go before it is replaced.
-
Xp no longer being sold from the begining of the month.
If this is true, all is lost :(
You have an xp licence, just reinstall on new machine.
-
Ok, recommendation from here is to spend £400 on either a toshiba or an HP. If you buy via HP website, there is often a £50 back voucher.
3 laptops bought recently, all highly regarded, no problems with Vista.
Tosh were crap for a while, they seem to have sorted out their build problems.
-
Something like this (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/140709), but with XP is what I want...
-
Charlotte, 93 laptops here (http://www.equanet.com/action/search-result?sort=price&start=1&id=140572&query=633894%2F%2F%2F4059%2C%3D%2CMicrosoft+Windows+XP+Professional&folder=633894), all pre-installed with XP Pro.
[edit] and if it were me I'd stick to Intel Core 2 Duo processors.
-
Try here
HP Laptops - Cheap Laptop Computers | ITC Sales UK Store - Partner with Dell & HP (http://www.itcsales.co.uk/acatalog/Hewlett_Packard_Laptops_New.html)
-
Round this way, I used to use Novatech (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/) but haven't tried them for a while (mostly Mac at home now).
They do a range of lappys with a choice of OS, including XP.
-
Get a Mac with Parralels or Bootcamp.
-
::-)
I knew someone would say that! Actually, were it not for the fact that I need a Windows machine to run work software and the GPS stuff, I probably would.
I bought a Mac, then bought an XP copy on eBay (comes with a piece of "non-peripheral hardware" to comply with MS licensing) and installed it with BootCamp (which comes with the Mac). So I have a Mac for regular use, but can boot into Windows when I need to use my HRM software or for other, yet-undiscovered uses.
-
OT sorry!
Wot is "non-peripheral hardware" to comply with MS licensing?
I thought all copies were not acceptable.
On topic now If all the HP notebooks have keyboards made in China like a Compaq which I own I wouldn't buy one again :hand:.
This year have bought another Toshiba with a super keyboard simply because the Compaq one is rubbish.
Myself, I have XP & Ubuntu on a dual boot and almost ready to uninstall XP :D
-
I am sure Mircrosoft dropped all the non peripheral hardware licence stuff a while ago.
I have been running Vista for sixteen months on this laptop (Dell Latitude D510) and although it still presents the odd irritation, and I would still choose XP if I could, I have to admit that it has got a lot better as patches have been released and I rarely think about the issue these days.
-
The thing is, I really don't want to spend more than three or four hundred quid onna laptop. If I had a spare grand hanging about, maybe I'd buy a Mac - I have nothing against them other than the price.
What I think I need is a nice, robust, business-style HP or Thinkpad or something. Maybe a really good remaindered or refurbished one.
-
I am sure Mircrosoft dropped all the non peripheral hardware licence stuff a while ago.
Nope. See this article: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2321572,00.asp (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2321572,00.asp)
Wot is "non-peripheral hardware" to comply with MS licensing?
I thought all copies were not acceptable.
It's not a "copy", it's a genuine XP license. Basically, companies that build PCs (i.e. Original Equipment Manufacturers, OEMs) can still buy XP in order to preload this onto the computers they sell. This doesn't just mean the big manufacturers, but also the little shops that build computers from scratch. As long as you buy it with a piece of "non-peripheral hardware" (not sure of the legal ruling that defined it, but I got mine with a piece of RAM) this is considered an OEM sale.
-
I am sure Mircrosoft dropped all the non peripheral hardware licence stuff a while ago.
Nope. See this article: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2321572,00.asp (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2321572,00.asp)
Oh I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the link.
-
Wait till you see my Advent 4211 (well, a rebadged MSI Wind)!!
-
Charlotte, I am wondering about your reasoning for the need for Windows, thus:
1) citrix, there is a perfectly good, supported citrix client for Linux (I set up a call centre dual booting desktops with windows/thin linux citrix client and can vouch for it's stability and usefulness, so much so that a number of users stopped using the windows boot option and stuck with Citrix)
2) Watching DVDs, that's what Mplayer, Xine and VLC are for! :) Provided you have libdvdcss and libdvdread installed all is good with the world
3) GPS - I would make a good guess that it could be supported natively, or if not via Wine. Which make and model is it? I currently have Memory map working fine on my Dell laptop (running Fedora 9), but currently do not have a GPS to test the connectivity with.
-
Ah yes. Wine...
Y'see, I'm one of those types who like Ubuntu and know how to apt-get and how to do basic file shuffling about, but that's more or less it. Trying to get stuff like Citrix working, or installing Windows software in Wine usually calls for advanced buggering about in bash which I Just Can't Do.
I'd like to be able to say that I'm all geeky and I can get my Linux machine to do all of this - and maybe one day I will. I'll certainly keep trying.
But right now, I need stuff that Just Works, because I can't currently get into work from home and I can't use my GPS that I've just bought and I can't burn a DVD and I'm royally pissed off about it.
So whilst I figure out how to do all of this with Linux, I need a bum-basic, guaranteed to work XP lappy.
-
Wine's easy, if a bit limited sometimes. My abilities are of the same levels as your Charlotte, and I can do stuff with it.
I shall be getting a GPS any day now so I'll see what can be done.
-
Have you thought of trying Sterling? SterlingXS - Cheap New & Refurbished Laptops & Computers (http://www.sterlingxs.com)
Looks like they have a few nice laptops on there right now which would fit the bill nicely, i.e decent spec, less than £400 and XP Pro
-
Mmmmm - I looked at Stirling when I was considering a sub-notebook, before I discovered the eeePC.
The main issue is that I want both XP (rather than Vista) and a DVD writer. Oh - preferably less than £300 as well.
So I've just spoken to them and the only lappy that fits the bill is the DEL1520/44 (http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/cheapdellinspiron1520&1521laptops.htm) Dell Inspiron 1520 notebook - silver case with Bubblegum Pink Microsatin finish.
I'd not normally go for a pink laptop - and it's a "factory outlet" jobbie with light scratches, but that looks like a reasonable deal. What do you think?
Or should I buy a Vista machine and try to downgrade it?
-
the pink one would go nicely with your phone..
:D
-
That sounds reasonable, but your other option, as you say is to buy one with Vista on and downgrade it. IIRC the Vista license allows you to install XP (soemthing that MS has had to do for years at the behest of businesses who are wary of trying the lastest and "greatest" OS).
If needs be I have an original Dell XP install CD that will work with a Dell laptop, let me know if you want to borrow it. Before anyone shouts up, this is not illegal as the hardware the OS would be going on will have a valid License(COA) for Vista/XP so all I would be doing is lending the media.
-
For £300 or less you really start to compromise on the processor etc. For £400 I think you'll get something with a bit more life in it that will work better. This Toshiba Satellite Pro L300-12X Laptop PC (http://www.equanet.com/catalogue/item/TOSNBK05) comes in just under £400 (inc. VAT) it's got a dual core processor, 1GB of memory a 120GB hard drive DVD-RW Wi-Fi and 15.4" screen, and XP Pro installed.
PC Pro A-list: Value Laptop = Dell Inspiron 1525 (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/196710/dell-inspiron-1525.html) for around £400
-
That sounds reasonable, but your other option, as you say is to buy one with Vista on and downgrade it. IIRC the Vista license allows you to install XP (soemthing that MS has had to do for years at the behest of businesses who are wary of trying the lastest and "greatest" OS).
If needs be I have an original Dell XP install CD that will work with a Dell laptop, let me know if you want to borrow it. Before anyone shouts up, this is not illegal as the hardware the OS would be going on will have a valid License(COA) for Vista/XP so all I would be doing is lending the media.
I was told that you can only downgrade a machine that has Vista "premium" (or whatever the proper name is) on it. My laptop has Vista home basic on it. Does anyone know anything about this or was I being told a load of cobblers?
-
That sounds reasonable, but your other option, as you say is to buy one with Vista on and downgrade it. IIRC the Vista license allows you to install XP (soemthing that MS has had to do for years at the behest of businesses who are wary of trying the lastest and "greatest" OS).
If needs be I have an original Dell XP install CD that will work with a Dell laptop, let me know if you want to borrow it. Before anyone shouts up, this is not illegal as the hardware the OS would be going on will have a valid License(COA) for Vista/XP so all I would be doing is lending the media.
I was told that you can only downgrade a machine that has Vista "premium" (or whatever the proper name is) on it. My laptop has Vista home basic on it. Does anyone know anything about this or was I being told a load of cobblers?
According to this, they are right...
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf
-
What I would do:
1. buy a lappy at the Best Deal you can get, regardless of installed OS
2. buy some extra RAM for your old lappy (check limit!) and an OEM copy of XP [a)so you have an install disk and b) read on]
3. install your new copy of XP on your new pooter and enjoy
4. wipe your old laptop and install preferred distro of Linux, VirtualBox and xp (using your old licence key) and enjoy
Best of all worlds ;D
-
If you're going for the buy a laptop and reformat it game, I'd be tempted with one of these to save you the cost of a Vista license.
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspnnb_1525?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&~oid=uk~en~20211~july_inspnnb_1525_ubuntu_n0752515~~
I'm sure you could pick up a cheap & legal copy of XP on eBay...
Actually, I've been toying with one of these myself to replace our ageing thinkpad, particularly as I can get a legitimate free Windoze license through work.
Not adventurous enough to consider just leaving Ubuntu on there though.
AC
-
If you're after a cheap laptop
Sub-£400 laptops: we pick the most powerful budget laptops available (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tipnote/cheap-laptop-deals)
Caveat - I haven't read it closely, nor know anything about the hardware.
-
I think I may have cracked it. What do we think of this, chaps?
LENOVO N200 T5500 1GB 160GB DVD-RW 15.4" XP PRO - Ebuyer (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/144333)
-
Looks good, Lenovo have kept up the good name the IBM built with it's Thinkpad line, I'd say go for it.
One caveat(there had to be one didn't there?), if you can find it somewhere else at that price, buy it from the other place. Or keep your fingers crossed that it never goes wrong....
I'm an ex-ebuyer employee and I still think their aftersales service is the most shite-est thing since the invention of shite...
-
You've mentioned that before - a bit worriying...
I've bought a fair amount of kit from eBuyer in the past, but never had cause to have to return any.
-
Cheaper(but no stock)!
TY2BWUK - Lenovo N200 15.4 T5450 1+1GB FREE 160GB VHP (TY2BWUK) (http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?origin=gbase9.2&prodID=B96396)
However(and these guys are good):
Lenovo 3000 N200 0769 TY2BWUK From Laptops Direct (http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Lenovo_3000_N200_0769_TY2BWUK/version.asp?refsource=ldpgrabber)
-
The Laptops Direct one comes with sodding Vista...
:(
-
Try giving 'em a ring
-
Hang about - they do sell an XP one. £30 more expensive! WTF?
-
Hang about - they do sell an XP one. £30 more expensive! WTF?
See my post above ;)
-
The XP one has a better processor, 1.83G as opposed to 1.5
Lenovo 3000 N200 TY2ECUK From Laptops Direct (http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Lenovo_3000_N200_TY2ECUK/version.asp)
-
Just called them. He didn't mention that. Sounded like he was about fourteen...
Apparently, Windows XP laptops are getting rarer and rarer and command a "premium price".
You can't roll back Vista Home Premium to XP; only Vista "Ultimate" or "Business".
Stinks, doesn't it?
-
Apparently, for £29, you can upgrade the XP laptop from 1Gb to 2Gb of RAM.
Worth it?
-
I would say yes, memory seems to disappear at an alarming rate...
-
True. But looking online, eBuyer would appear to be selling gig sticks to suit for £15, so I think I'll wait and see if I need it...
-
Righty ho - one brand spanking new Lenovo lappy with XP Pro just ordered. Delivery next week
The old laptop is now officially a book-end until such time as I can find someone lovely enough to:
a) Fix it
b) Install Ubuntu on it and get the wireless working
c) Take it off my hands for an appropriate number of your English pounds
-
lappy
Not only is it bloody raining again, but then Carlotte uses one of the foulest neologisms of the last decade. (http://www.legslarry.org.uk/BikeStull/Mr_Shovel.jpg)
-
Carlotte uses one of the foulest neologisms of the last decade.
:-[
-
Righty ho - one brand spanking new Lenovo lappy with XP Pro just ordered. Delivery next week
The old laptop is now officially a book-end until such time as I can find someone lovely enough to:
a) Fix it
b) Install Ubuntu on it and get the wireless working
c) Take it off my hands for an appropriate number of your English pounds
Lenovos have some really good press recently. I set one up for a customer a few months ago and was really impressed by the quality. Sounds like you made a good choice in the end.
-
A bit late now for Charlotte, but Dabs.com have plenty of XP laptops listed. Nice 'refine by' search facility on the site too.
-
I did see their site, actually :)
But I thought that the one I got was a better bet...
-
Wait till you see my Advent 4211 (well, a rebadged MSI Wind)!!
Where did you get your hands on one of those, BM?
The dosh is burning a hole in my pocket...
-
Where did you get your hands on one of those, BM?
The dosh is burning a hole in my pocket...
PC World mate (*spit*). They should have plenty in stock, AFAIK.
-
^^^ Mine is apparently in dispatch (ordered online Sunday)
(& don't forget Quidco, £13.99 cashback already validated!)
-
PC World mate (*spit*).
Hmmm... that is a considerable drawback. Besides which they are currently offered on a "collect at store" basis only... and no London branch has one in stock ::-)
On further consideration, the extended battery life of the eee PC901 is very appealing (for my intended use I can get by without a big hard disc). I'll just have to hang fire a little longer, I reckon...