Audax Tyres Again

[vorsprung]

Here is my list of tyres that fit my needs for audax: 25mm or 28mm (the 30mm Marathon Racer is a special guest), 700C, kevlar bead, slick is better, fast is better, reasonably puncture proof

Name	size	weight	tpi	slick?	price	supplier	date
Contintental Ultra Gator Skin	25	250	170	n	26.09	wiggle	26/04/10
Continental GP4 Seasons	28	280	110	n	27.84	ribble	22/04/10
Continental GP4000	25	210		y	26.95	parker	22/04/10
Continental GP4000 reflective	25	205			34.16	probikekit	22/04/10
Mitchelin Krylion	25				28.99	uk-biking	23/04/10
Mitchelin Pro 3	25	215		y	32.31	starbike	22/04/10
Mitchelin Pro Optimum	25	215(f)/240(r)			28.89	ribble	22/04/10
Panaracer Extreme Duro	25	280	126		27.58	ribble	22/04/10
Panaracer Pasela TG folding	28	280	66	n	25	spa	22/04/10
Schwalbe Marathon Racer folding	30	325	67	n	25	spa	22/04/10
Schwalbe Ultremo R1	28	220	127	y	29.54	starbike	22/04/10
Vittoria Rubino Pro 3 tech	28	280	150	n	20.75	parker	22/04/10

I haven't used/tried out all these tyres, some of them are listed because I came across them
The two most intriguing ones are the Pararacer Extreme Duro and the Michelin Pro Optimum
Both are allegedly designed for long distance

Couldn't find a supplier for Krylions in 25mm, all sold out.  Should have got them last month.
Or a UK supplier for Pro 3 in 25mm

The Ultremo in 28mm is news to me, has anyone used these IRL?

Tyre prices are up on last year, ribble seem to have some good deals at the moment

updated 23/04/10

[pdm]

The Ultremo is pretty new - not used any yet...
I have used Schwalbe Durano Plus tyres. Very puncture proof - same tech as Marathon Plus but much lighter and seem to roll very well. They used to be called Stelvio Plus - I am still running those, not worn them out (or punctured them) yet... They come in 23 and 25.

[mattc]

Are your TPIs in mixed units? Here's an example spec
...

a cord density of 66 TPI (240 threads/dm2)

...

I would also say that the COntis are all more-or-less slick i.e. no tread on the bit that will touch tarmac.

[Biggsy]

I can't recommend the Panaracer Extreme Duro.  It's not flexible, fast or especially light for the type, yet punctures easily, IME.  It's 266g for the 700x25.

The Vittoria Rubino Pro is similar in thickness at the tread, but is more puncture resistant, IME, and faster.  I would expect the other variants (Pro 3 Tech, etc) to be similarly good.

Panaracer Pasela is very good if you don't mind the minimal depth of rubber away from the centre, and the skinny sidewalls.

[Biggsy]

Regarding Threads Per Inch:

For the GP4 Seasons, Conti here say "3 plies/ total 330 tpi".  That's cheating and means the true TPI is 110.

Rubino Pro is genuinely 150 TPI (or 120 for the original version).  The highest true TPI for a bicycle tyre casing I know of is 320 for the new Vittoria Corsa/Open Corsa.

[plum]

Although the Marathon Racers aren't strictly slick, all they have is a patterned surface rather than an actual tread. 5000 miles on my current pair, and although the pattern has worn almost away on the rear one the front is still like new. I've actually just taken them off while there's still life in them, figuring I can use them for a loaded summer tour.

One of the most expensive tyres on that list I think, but I got mine just over half price from Parker's about a year ago and fantastic value they've been. The mileage has been around 40% [loaded] commute, 50% weekend/club rides, the rest shopping/touring with heavy loads. Two flats I think, both from thorns.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Regarding Threads Per Inch:

For the GP4 Seasons, Conti here say "3 plies/ total 330 tpi".  That's cheating and means the true TPI is 110.

Rubino Pro is genuinely 150 TPI (or 120 for the original version).  The highest true TPI for a bicycle tyre casing I know of is 320 for the new Vittoria Corsa/Open Corsa.

Continental are lying toads. I have a section of a gp4s in front of me, and if the thread count (excluding the anti-puncture strip) is over 40tpi, I'm a dutchman.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Kryllion carbon 25mm

http://www.uk-biking.net/Michelin-Krylion-Carbon-Tyre

[CountrySickness]

No mention and people don't seem to use Conti Ultra Gatorskins that much these days so why not? Are the other Contis that much better? They've been cheap enough and v reliable (at least for last 2/3 years) for me, great MTB slicks too (not enough to turn my Long Haul Trucker into anything remotely speedy mind).

[Androcles]

Kryllion carbon 25mm

http://www.uk-biking.net/Michelin-Krylion-Carbon-Tyre

Glad I got my Krylions last month, at 20 quid each

[vorsprung]

No mention and people don't seem to use Conti Ultra Gatorskins that much these days so why not? Are the other Contis that much better? They've been cheap enough and v reliable (at least for last 2/3 years) for me, great MTB slicks too (not enough to turn my Long Haul Trucker into anything remotely speedy mind).

Ultra Gator Skins are not in this survey because the standard models are wire beaded.  There is a 23mm with a kevlar bead but I am not interested in 23mm tyres.  The GP4 are very similar to the Ultra Gator skins but are available in 25mm and 28mm with a kevlar bead.

The reason for excluding wire bead is weight
The reason for excluding 23mm is the comfort factor
Obviously you can ride audax on any tyre you like and I have ridden 600s on wire beaded 28mm Ultra Gator Skins

I am not aiming to start the whole Ultra Gator skin debate again, let's just say they are like Marmite.

[vorsprung]

Are your TPIs in mixed units? Here's an example spec
...

a cord density of 66 TPI (240 threads/dm2)

...

I would also say that the COntis are all more-or-less slick i.e. no tread on the bit that will touch tarmac.

Yes, I think I need to check my TPI figures

[Biggsy]

The Ultra Gator Skin has particularly thin wire beads that are not much heavier than Kevlar beads, and it's light altogether, so it shouldn't be eliminated for weight reasons.  (It's a mistake to think wired tyres are necessarily heavier than folding tyres anyway, as the bead is only a small factor).  It can be eliminated if you don't like it, though

[mattc]

The Ultra Gator Skin has particularly thin wire beads that are not much heavier than Kevlar beads, and it's light altogether, so it shouldn't be eliminated for weight reasons.

Weight Weenies, for the 23mm, gives:
Continental   Ultra GatorSkin   2004   23-622   280 g   275 g   −1,79%   wire

...so that's as heavy as the GP4 in 28mm, in V's figures*.

Unless they've got lighter since 2004, which is perfectly possible.

* Weenies gives
Grand Prix 4-Season   2010   28-622   250 g   252.25

[perpetual dan]

No mention and people don't seem to use Conti Ultra Gatorskins that much these days so why not? Are the other Contis that much better? They've been cheap enough and v reliable (at least for last 2/3 years) for me, great MTB slicks too (not enough to turn my Long Haul Trucker into anything remotely speedy mind).

Ultra Gator Skins are not in this survey because the standard models are wire beaded.  There is a 23mm with a kevlar bead but I am not interested in 23mm tyres.  The GP4 are very similar to the Ultra Gator skins but are available in 25mm and 28mm with a kevlar bead.

The reason for excluding wire bead is weight
The reason for excluding 23mm is the comfort factor
Obviously you can ride audax on any tyre you like and I have ridden 600s on wire beaded 28mm Ultra Gator Skins

I am not aiming to start the whole Ultra Gator skin debate again, let's just say they are like Marmite.

A spoonfull is good in a vegetable stew?   

I'm seeing wiggle, 700*25, gatorskin though.

Not trying to stir things up, I like your reasoning and would rather not spend years trying every model on the market.
Presumably folding bead is also good if you want a known quantity as a spare tyre too.

[Biggsy]

I weighed an Ultra Gator Skin 28 at 310g.  It's heavier than most of the other tyres mentioned above, but I'd still describe it as "light".  Not very puncture resistant, IME, though, and the grip is questionable.

[rogerzilla]

In my unscientific testing, the Marathon Racer rides exactly the same as the Pasela.  It also appears to be the same width; it's not noticeably wider than the Pasela.  Its main advantage is that it doesn't have amber walls to get filthy - don't get me wrong, I like the retro look of an amber-walled tyre but, on a rim-braked bike used in all weathers, they soon look horrible.

[mattc]

I weighed an Ultra Gator Skin 28 at 310g.  It's heavier than most of the other tyres mentioned above, but I'd still describe it as "light".  Not very puncture resistant, IME, though, and the grip is questionable.

And they seem to be around £2 cheaper than Vorsprung's competitor list, which is nowhere near cheap enough!
I'm sure they used to cost around £15 - they were probably good value then, but not anymore.
(EDIT: would you buy a tyre that you KNEW was inferior just to save £2?!? )

SO in conclusion, I'm happy they're not on the current list

(and this is before we get into the dont-ride-them-within-a-mile-of-a-flint discussion)

[vorsprung]

I weighed an Ultra Gator Skin 28 at 310g.  It's heavier than most of the other tyres mentioned above, but I'd still describe it as "light".  Not very puncture resistant, IME, though, and the grip is questionable.

And they seem to be around £2 cheaper than Vorsprung's competitor list, which is nowhere near cheap enough!
I'm sure they used to cost around £15 - they were probably good value then, but not anymore.

I think you'll find that the price of all tyres - like all other bike stuff - has increased like crazy this year

[GraemeMcC]

You can say that again!

£39.99 for ONE Conti Top Contact Touring - albeit with free inner tube and one year no-puncture guarantee. (But then, it is a bomb-proof tyre for my commute) (Famous last words?)

But, be thankful you don't Time Trial on tubs. Since the Euro exchange rate dived, decent light tubs are about £50 a hit !!!

And, to add my tuppence worth on the Gatorskins, there are folding 25s available, one of which I lugged all the around LEL needlessly, because my spanking new rigid G/skin 25 fr /28 rear were well up to the task. Wouldn't recommend G/skins for late autumn/winter though, coz they're too slick.

[vorsprung]

My Conti GP4 punctured twice on the recent 400km in Wales.  They have only done 2,500km.  GP4 seem to loose something, puncture wise after just a couple of thousand km.  Thinking about all the punctures I've had with this type of tyre ( a tediously large number )  It's time to try something else.  Shame, they are fast, light, comfy and grippy.

Based on Biggsys positive comments I have bought some 28mm Vittoria Rubino Pro Tech, approx 22 quid each from Ribble.  The "Tech" version is supposed to have better side wall protection

They are a narrow 28mm ( more like 26mm ) and they have a pronounced tread pattern

They remind me of Panaracer Pasellas but are a nicer colour.  I'd prefer them if they were slick

[Hummers]

I am almost too frightened to post this but I have noticed that since I dropped my tyre pressures down to 100-110psi. flinty incursions and sidewall cuts have diminished significantly despite me still hitting large flints and stones because I am crap at spotting them. It might be that the dry spell means less sharp flint washed out of the fields but other riders have suffered whilst I don't seem to have (I'm really pushong my luck now). Even so, as a matter of course, I check the tyres after every ride and remove any nasties that may have embed themselves.

The front Conti GP 4 Seasons 23mm has been on there since June 2009, has done over 5000k  and is looking a bit worse for wear. The rear is a Panaracer Stradius Elite TG 23mm that I fitted in early April and has done over 1000k.

In terms of wear on the Conti GP 4 Seasons, I found to my cost that if you can see white through the outer black rubber casing then it is time to bid them farewell or suffer the consequences.

H

[Biggsy]

Lower pressure means the tyre is effectively pressing less hard onto objects, therefore less likely to be cut by them.

[Manotea]

I weighed an Ultra Gator Skin 28 at 310g.  It's heavier than most of the other tyres mentioned above, but I'd still describe it as "light".  Not very puncture resistant, IME, though, and the grip is questionable.

And they seem to be around £2 cheaper than Vorsprung's competitor list, which is nowhere near cheap enough!
I'm sure they used to cost around £15 - they were probably good value then, but not anymore.

They were about £15 in my local Halfords a couple of years back. Rediculously good value. I've switched to 4Seasons now which I find offer a similar ride but are definately more grippy on my (un)favorite windy descent.

[scottlington]

I am almost too frightened to post this but I have noticed that since I dropped my tyre pressures down to 100-110psi. flinty incursions and sidewall cuts have diminished significantly despite me still hitting large flints and stones because I am crap at spotting them. It might be that the dry spell means less sharp flint washed out of the fields but other riders have suffered whilst I don't seem to have (I'm really pushong my luck now). Even so, as a matter of course, I check the tyres after every ride and remove any nasties that may have embed themselves.

The front Conti GP 4 Seasons 23mm has been on there since June 2009, has done over 5000k  and is looking a bit worse for wear. The rear is a Panaracer Stradius Elite TG 23mm that I fitted in early April and has done over 1000k.

In terms of wear on the Conti GP 4 Seasons, I found to my cost that if you can see white through the outer black rubber casing then it is time to bid them farewell or suffer the consequences.

H

I always use Panarcer tyres (Stradius Sport or Extreme Duro depending on time of year) and rarely get
punctures. In fact, the only time I suffered from puncture after puncture was when I fitted the bike with some sort of bollocks from Schwalbe. Never again. Panaracer for me all the time.

After I got back from the Cambrian 200 earlier this year I noticed that the rear (Panaracer Extreme Duro) was literally down to the canvas. Thread was showing through in a number of places. Punctures? 0. Sweet.