Audax Tyres Again

[vorsprung]

My commute racing bike has 25mm panaracer stratius elites on it and they are excellent tires.
I had one puncture at approx 1,000km but none since.
Mind you the bike generally only goes out in the dry

I didn't mention them before because they aren't folding kevlar beaded.

[Hummers]

I gave up on the Stradius Elite TGs last year because of losing four tyres to sidewall cuts where the tyre proved too weak to fix.

They weren't too bad in terms of direct puncture damage though - no worse than the Conti 4 Seasons - but I did have one tyre that went, well, 'kinky'.

Damon's suggestion to use a wider tyre (25/26mm) makes sense too and I think has been proven to some degree running at a lower tyre pressure. CRC used to sell these occasionally at around £14 each.

A good, cheap, fast tyre but with weak side walls, especially compared to the Conti 4 Seasons.

H

[crowriver]

Resurrecting this thread as I'm looking for "summer" tyres for a "sportier" ride than my "winter" (all year) Marathons.

Could just run Gatorskins, but wondering if anyone rates the following tyres?

Conti GP 4 Seasons

Schwalbe Durano Plus

[mzjo]

You can say that again!

£39.99 for ONE Conti Top Contact Touring - albeit with free inner tube and one year no-puncture guarantee. (But then, it is a bomb-proof tyre for my commute) (Famous last words?)

But, be thankful you don't Time Trial on tubs. Since the Euro exchange rate dived, decent light tubs are about £50 a hit !!!

And, to add my tuppence worth on the Gatorskins, there are folding 25s available, one of which I lugged all the around LEL needlessly, because my spanking new rigid G/skin 25 fr /28 rear were well up to the task. Wouldn't recommend G/skins for late autumn/winter though, coz they're too slick.

But surely the diving euro rate should make things much cheaper in UK? Am I being naive?

My first impression is that these prices seem steep. Is there no equivalent to Cycle Tyres Direct in UK? (Not that I've checked their prices but I will - and repost accordingly)

[sojournermike]

Resurrecting this thread as I'm looking for "summer" tyres for a "sportier" ride than my "winter" (all year) Marathons.

Could just run Gatorskins, but wondering if anyone rates the following tyres?

Conti GP 4 Seasons

Schwalbe Durano Plus

I thought nk that Vorsprungs of original 2010 list can now be condensed to...

SCHWALBE ONE tubeless

In what ever size fits. The new one pro goes from 23mm to 28mm, with 30 to 40mm variations.

[Morat]

I have the tubed version, on tubeless ready wheels, because the tubeless weren't available. Is there much difference in feel? (there's no need to debate the other advantages of tubeless, I'm sold already).

[sojournermike]

I have the tubed version, on tubeless ready wheels, because the tubeless weren't available. Is there much difference in feel? (there's no need to debate the other advantages of tubeless, I'm sold already).

Truth is that I haven't compared, but previously used open corsa with latex tubes and have one tubed bike with compass extra lever and latex tubes and they are close enough. I expect the pros will be all I want, when I've worn out the current stock.

Mike

[mrcharly-YHT]

Resurrecting this thread as I'm looking for "summer" tyres for a "sportier" ride than my "winter" (all year) Marathons.

Could just run Gatorskins, but wondering if anyone rates the following tyres?

Conti GP 4 Seasons

Schwalbe Durano Plus

Those are utterly different tyres.
GP4 seasons are good winter tyres, very good grip in cold conditions. I've ridden them on thick ice and snow and they are better than anything else apart from studded tyres.
Durano Plus need high pressures to avoid being slow but are very durable, long-lasting and puncture-resistant.

If you are after fastish tyres for winter use, then go for the 4 seasons. Just don't expect great puncture resistance, they are mediocre (but better than 'summer' tyres).

[P Walsh]

GP 4 Seasons (25mm) are a permanent feature on my audax bike. Before that I used Gatorskins, which I liked except for the tendency for the rear wheel to lose traction on steep, slippery lanes. I wanted more grip. GP 4 Seasons are more grippy on slippery surfaces. But a bonus was increased suppleness (at my chosen rear tyre pressure of about 95psi, a tad lower at the front), making progress on coarse road surfaces smoother. Puncture resistance is similar to Gatorskins, with most audax rides of 200km passing without incident.

[vorsprung]

GP 4 Seasons .. Puncture resistance is similar to Gatorskins, with most audax rides of 200km passing without incident.

Going 200km without a puncture most of the time sounds like a very poor tyre

Maybe they haven't improved since my comments above, 5 years ago.   I know they have a popular following but I found them to be, well, deceptive.  Up to
2000 or 2500km .. loverly.  After that, puncture every 200km or so. Never had so many flats.  I thought I was unlucky.  No.  It was the tyres.

There are many better tyres than this for speed, cost, puncture resistance and grip that don't turn into cheese after 2000km

My current favourite tyres list are all the tyres of last year or so that are not available now (except maybe the Marathon Supreme 28mm)

I am hopeful that the recently fitted Hutchinson Intensive will turn out good.  Too early to say at the moment

Dunno why crowriver is asking about summer tyres now.  It's a bit late.  I suppose book early for next year

[P Walsh]

GP 4 Seasons .. Puncture resistance is similar to Gatorskins, with most audax rides of 200km passing without incident.

Going 200km without a puncture most of the time sounds like a very poor tyre

Maybe they haven't improved since my comments above, 5 years ago.   I know they have a popular following but I found them to be, well, deceptive.  Up to
2000 or 2500km .. loverly.  After that, puncture every 200km or so. Never had so many flats.  I thought I was unlucky.  No.  It was the tyres.

There are many better tyres than this for speed, cost, puncture resistance and grip that don't turn into cheese after 2000km

My current favourite tyres list are all the tyres of last year or so that are not available now (except maybe the Marathon Supreme 28mm)

I am hopeful that the recently fitted Hutchinson Intensive will turn out good.  Too early to say at the moment

Dunno why crowriver is asking about summer tyres now.  It's a bit late.  I suppose book early for next year

I did about 1000km on GP 4 Seasons last Spring without a puncture. And those tyres were part worn from the previous year. What I meant by the 200km reference was that you would be unlucky to get a puncture with one on a standard audax ride. Marathon Supremes are tougher tyres (which I also like and use) but less grippy and less supple on coarse road surfaces. I go better on supple tyres because I feel less beaten up by the road surface.

[Ningishzidda]

The problem with punctures is “How would a different tyre have coped with that piece of broken glass, on that square inch of road, in those weather conditions?”

The tyre in question had done x miles along y roads in z weather conditions before suffering the puncture.

Only a fool would predict another tyre would not have got punctured by that piece of broken glass on that square inch of road in those weather conditions.
Just consider it bad luck and no fault of the tyre.

[Biggsy]

The problem with punctures is “How would a different tyre have coped with that piece of broken glass, on that square inch of road, in those weather conditions?”

The tyre in question had done x miles along y roads in z weather conditions before suffering the puncture.

Only a fool would predict another tyre would not have got punctured by that piece of broken glass on that square inch of road in those weather conditions.
Just consider it bad luck and no fault of the tyre.

You might as well say that all tyres are equally puncture resistant (or equally puncture vulnerable), which of course is not true.  You can predict that another tyre would be less likely to have punctured by that piece of glass when it has deeper or harder layers for the glass to penetrate (with deeper being more effective than harder layers).  And in the near special case of the Marathon Plus, you can predict that NO piece of glass will ever reach the inner tube because the special foam layer is that deep - which doesn't always turn out to be true for everyone, but is fairly likely to be, and has been for me so far.

[P Walsh]

The problem with punctures is “How would a different tyre have coped with that piece of broken glass, on that square inch of road, in those weather conditions?”

The tyre in question had done x miles along y roads in z weather conditions before suffering the puncture.

Only a fool would predict another tyre would not have got punctured by that piece of broken glass on that square inch of road in those weather conditions.
Just consider it bad luck and no fault of the tyre.

You might as well say that all tyres are equally puncture resistant (or equally puncture vulnerable), which of course is not true.  You can predict that another tyre would be less likely to have punctured by that piece of glass when it has deeper or harder layers for the glass to penetrate (with deeper being more effective than harder layers).  And in the near special case of the Marathon Plus, you can predict that NO piece of glass will ever reach the inner tube because the special foam layer is that deep - which doesn't always turn out to be true for everyone, but is fairly likely to be, and has been for me so far.

I once cycled over half a bottle, jagged bit pointing up (a talent I have) and not surprisingly the tyre sutained a gash in the sidewall that led to instant deflation. I did not blame the tyre. I bet a Marathon Plus would have been written off by that. Personally, I find most tyres sufficiently puncture resistant until they wear too thin. I don't want more puncture protection if it means less supple tyres or increased rolling resistance.

[LEE]

Puncture resistance could be judged over a year, possibly a season, but certainly not by one ride.

I do about 5,000 miles a year and my puncture rate really isn't high enough to give statistical meaning.  Average of about 2 a year for the last 9 years (The worst year involving Gatorskins and skewing the figures).

My cycling is on Hampshire/Wiltshire flinty/gravelly lanes so I consider it a minor miracle that I don't get many more.

I only use 25mm Conti 4 Seasons (£30 a tyre) and 25mm Marathons (£11 a tyre). The Contis feel sprightly and compliant compared to the utilitarian, hard, but not very grippy Marathons.

Nothing like tempting fate, especially as I'll be out in the rain, dark and flint tonight.

[P Walsh]

One year I did about 1500 miles on Gatorskins with no punctures at all. The next year, on the very first audax, I punctured in the first mile using the same sort of tyre. There is a lot of randomness in it, even if you look at a whole year.

I now view Gatorskins as cheaper GP 4 Seasons, a bit lacking in grip and suppleness but still good.

[vorsprung]

I bet a Marathon Plus would have been written off by that.

I call your bet

How will we do this?  I get my 2 year old M+ put them on the Karate Monkey.  Smash a bottle and video me riding over it at high speed 10 times?

[crowriver]

Dunno why crowriver is asking about summer tyres now.  It's a bit late.  I suppose book early for next year

Exactly.

Recently acquired a second "audax bike" which I will use in "summer" (if we are fortunate enough to have one next year) as opposed to my "winter" bike which sports Marathons, hub dynamo lights, etc.

Basically once BST kicks in again I fancy a bit more of a sprightly riding bike, but I am very averse to p********s so don't want anything too fragile. Compromise 'twixt lower rolling resistance and durability I suppose...

[sojournermike]

Dunno why crowriver is asking about summer tyres now.  It's a bit late.  I suppose book early for next year

Exactly.

Recently acquired a second "audax bike" which I will use in "summer" (if we are fortunate enough to have one next year) as opposed to my "winter" bike which sports Marathons, hub dynamo lights, etc.

Basically once BST kicks in again I fancy a bit more of a sprightly riding bike, but I am very averse to p********s so don't want anything too fragile. Compromise 'twixt lower rolling resistance and durability I suppose...

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

[crowriver]

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

Hm. Dunno. They seem great but: new rims/wheels required? If they do puncture or fail, near impossible to get off the rim?

Sounds a bit specialised, a hassle to get right, and not very easy to fix if it goes wrong.

Maybe once the technology matures and standards are more universal, I will try tubeless. Right now it seems a bit like electronic shifters: nice idea but maybe too much hassle for self-supported endurance riding?

[bikey-mikey]

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

Hm. Dunno. They seem great but: new rims/wheels required? If they do puncture or fail, near impossible to get off the rim?

Sounds a bit specialised, a hassle to get right, and not very easy to fix if it goes wrong.

Maybe once the technology matures and standards are more universal, I will try tubeless. Right now it seems a bit like electronic shifters: nice idea but maybe too much hassle for self-supported endurance riding?

Nah..... that's too Luddite for words....

Read the other thread....

[sojournermike]

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

Hm. Dunno. They seem great but: new rims/wheels required? If they do puncture or fail, near impossible to get off the rim?

Sounds a bit specialised, a hassle to get right, and not very easy to fix if it goes wrong.

Maybe once the technology matures and standards are more universal, I will try tubeless. Right now it seems a bit like electronic shifters: nice idea but maybe too much hassle for self-supported endurance riding?

Nah..... that's too Luddite for words....

Read the other thread....

Got me worried now, as I run tubeless tyres on a steel bike.

Really, there not that difficult and for road tubeless the tyres are really key. I ran 28mm Schwalbe Ones tubeless on Exal LX17 for a while and they were fine. Of course, no guarantees, but give it a go.

Mike

[Morat]

OK, I realise this is likely to be a Stupid Question but this is my first winter on anything but a mountain bike.
Why would I change from my Schwalbe Ones because it is winter?

[crowriver]

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

Hm. Dunno. They seem great but: new rims/wheels required? If they do puncture or fail, near impossible to get off the rim?

Sounds a bit specialised, a hassle to get right, and not very easy to fix if it goes wrong.

Maybe once the technology matures and standards are more universal, I will try tubeless. Right now it seems a bit like electronic shifters: nice idea but maybe too much hassle for self-supported endurance riding?

Nah..... that's too Luddite for words....

Read the other thread....

Each to their own, etc. I did read the thread.

I like the sound of the self-sealing tyres.

However the faff to set them up properly, and the problems if they do fail seem like quite a lot of hassle for unsupported riding over longer distances, possibly far from a bike shop or even a taxi home (think rural Scotland, pissing with rain, in the dark). Yes, okay you can put a tube in if the tyre fails: if you can get it off the rim and back on without soapy water, that is. Aye I'll just lug around a container of detergent on my ride too, just in case...

For the time being, I'll stick with 'traditional' tyres and tubes. Aiming for that compromise between performance and robustness/durability.
I will keep an open mind on tubeless for the future, but at the moment it seems an 'early adopter' tech at least in the road cycling context. (Yes I know MTB riders have been using them for yonks, but it's a very different kind of riding).

[L CC]

(Yes I know MTB riders have been using them for yonks, but it's a very different kind of riding).

I'd say MTB enduro is a great deal more likely to be

rural Scotland, pissing with rain, in the dark

Though possibly Wales. And a long walk back if you can't sort it...