Author Topic: Chain's a bit slack (...again) (Read 7669 times)

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:29:32 am »

Quote from: mrcharly on 24 May, 2013, 11:21:41 am

Really you need to always carry a chain tool and a couple of spare links if you are going to ride fixed.

Why?

Fixed chains are highly unlikely to break, unless you've cocked up the master link or joining pin. Geared chains are more likely to bust

Henry · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:30:15 am »

Quote from: mrcharly on 24 May, 2013, 11:21:41 am

Really you need to always carry a chain tool and a couple of spare links if you are going to ride fixed.

I know you are dead right, am ordering a chain breaker tool at the same time as chains.

I understood chain wear don't matter as much on fixed for those reasons, just thought I could prolong the life of my posh campag chainring a bit. And figured chain less likely to snap on an event if I keep em fairly fresh.

Chris N · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:33:13 am »

Quote from: Flatus the Almighty on 24 May, 2013, 11:29:32 am

Quote from: mrcharly on 24 May, 2013, 11:21:41 am
Really you need to always carry a chain tool and a couple of spare links if you are going to ride fixed.

Why?

Fixed chains are highly unlikely to break, unless you've cocked up the master link or joining pin. Geared chains are more likely to bust

Because if it does break and you don't have a spare link or two, you're fucked. At least with a derailleur you can run it with the chain a little too short for a while.

Henry · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:33:51 am »

Quote from: Flatus the Almighty on 24 May, 2013, 11:23:22 am

Just cut the end that doesn't have the pin sticking out and make sure you cut it so the outer plate drops off leaving the inner plate link ready to join the pin end.

Push the pin through carefully and make sure when it is through it is poking out each side the same amount, otherwise you'll have a weak join and a stiff link. M

I'm on holiday for a week now so you are welcome to ride 25 miles north to mine if you need a hand

Cheers

weekend is full up, if I get a free day from work etc next week it could be good excuse for a gentle spin! Will let you know...

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:34:42 am »

It won't snap. Stop worrying

In three decades of riding I've only had two chains snap. Both on geared mtbs

Henry · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:40:33 am »

I have been trying quite hard to snap em the last 6 months and not succeeded, but I guess if it happens, it will happen down a lane in the heart of WherethefuckamI-ville.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 May, 2013, 11:49:54 am »

I once had a spoke on a Kysrium wheel snap on a 300.

I still regret not carrying a spare wheel on my back that day

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #32 on:** 24 May, 2013, 12:33:19 pm »

KMC chains do wear very quickly indeed, even the expensive ones. At four quid a chain you might not care, but the problem I've had is that it goes from .75% to 1% and more over the space of a week, by which time the sprocket's worn enough to make the new chain rattle like a can of nails. Connex/Wipperman are good at about ten quid and will last at least 3-4 times as long as the cheap KMC ones, so are more economical.

Get a good chain splitter, not the 2 quid one, and the job's very easy indeed.

As for carrying spare links: they're not exactly heavy. Being able to borrow a splitter in the middle of nowhere, or get one at a hardware shop, is quite possible, but finding a spare link that will fit (even if running 3/32) is far less likely. I've snapped a couple of chains on fixed over the years, and seen audax DNFs from not having the right spare links, it does happen.

Henry · « **Reply #33 on:** 24 May, 2013, 12:58:58 pm »

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 24 May, 2013, 12:33:19 pm

KMC chains do wear very quickly indeed, even the expensive ones. At four quid a chain you might not care, but the problem I've had is that it goes from .75% to 1% and more over the space of a week, by which time the sprocket's worn enough to make the new chain rattle like a can of nails. Connex/Wipperman are good at about ten quid and will last at least 3-4 times as long as the cheap KMC ones, so are more economical.

Hmm it has been KMC all the way for me so far. Seeing these for £9, so think I'll give one a try.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #34 on:** 24 May, 2013, 01:06:39 pm »

Quote from: Flatus the Almighty on 24 May, 2013, 11:34:42 am

It won't snap. Stop worrying

In three decades of riding I've only had two chains snap. Both on geared mtbs

You might be a super-smooth guy then.

When I rode fixed as my sole bike, chains coming apart happened to me several times a year. I was young, stupid and probably over-stressed the chain with bad technique and too much youthful strength.

zigzag · « **Reply #35 on:** 24 May, 2013, 01:11:10 pm »

i've seen 1/8" chain snapped on lel, it would be a major hassle (or dnf) had the rider not been carrying spare link and a breaker.

Henry · « **Reply #36 on:** 24 May, 2013, 01:45:40 pm »

You guys are right, I'm just stepping up to some longer events and need to be covered for this sort of kerfuffle.

Crumbling Nick · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 May, 2013, 04:01:48 pm »

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 24 May, 2013, 12:33:19 pm

KMC chains do wear very quickly indeed, even the expensive ones. At four quid a chain you might not care, but the problem I've had is that it goes from .75% to 1% and more over the space of a week, by which time the sprocket's worn enough to make the new chain rattle like a can of nails. Connex/Wipperman are good at about ten quid and will last at least 3-4 times as long as the cheap KMC ones, so are more economical.

Get a good chain splitter, not the 2 quid one, and the job's very easy indeed.

As for carrying spare links: they're not exactly heavy. Being able to borrow a splitter in the middle of nowhere, or get one at a hardware shop, is quite possible, but finding a spare link that will fit (even if running 3/32) is far less likely. I've snapped a couple of chains on fixed over the years, and seen audax DNFs from not having the right spare links, it does happen.

What was the failure mode of the chains? I've only ever seen failures of an outer link, which can be fixed on the road with a spare joining link (SRAM & KMC 8-spd are adequately interchangeable), which is what I carry. I don't carry a chain tool, because I can lever a side plate off my chains with an allen key.

Tomsk · « **Reply #38 on:** 24 May, 2013, 06:00:08 pm »

Quote from: zigzag on 24 May, 2013, 01:11:10 pm

i've seen 1/8" chain snapped on lel, it would be a major hassle (or dnf) had the rider not been carrying spare link and a breaker.

That was me - down to incompetent first-time fitting of sexy new 1/2 link chain - I didn't get it right [in my defence, maybe my old and wobbly chain tool wasn't quite up to the job] so gorilla'd it in and 300 miles up the roads it lays itself in the road like a dead snake! Luckily on a gentle hill and not heaving on the bars out of the saddle.

Only breakage on fixed, the other one on my utility bike, due to neglect.....several cracks on other links and very worn transmission.

Lordy · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 May, 2013, 06:15:02 pm »

Hi Henry

Happy to meet up, either ride to yours or mine if you want a hand cutting/fixing the first chain. As Flatus says it is a piece of piss.

You'll be fine with it.

Henry · « **Reply #40 on:** 24 May, 2013, 08:29:23 pm »

Will send you PM once the chain arrives, that would be great. (Thanks Flatto, Lordy is nearer to get to) It sounds really simple, but just be good to learn it properly in person off someone.

Henry · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 July, 2013, 10:44:18 am »

Wipperman Connex chains are longer lasting than KMC, IME so far

rogerzilla · « **Reply #42 on:** 13 July, 2013, 12:00:00 pm »

I've never broken a chain but the SRAM PC-1 has a slightly iffy reputation as a fixie chain and some people have snapped them. With any chains, you minimise the risk of breakage by having good chainline, because then there are no side forces trying to wiggle the pins out.

1/8" chains are often weaker than derailleur chains in terms of ultimate strength (some manufacturers quote this on the packet) but the lack of sideways movement gives then an inherent advantage. Unless you have crap chainline.

For the reason Chris N states, I carry a spare link on long fixed or hub geared rides (this includes the Brompton) because the chain has to be the right length, unless you have abnormally long "road ends" and the wheel was right back to start with.

nightrider · « **Reply #43 on:** 13 July, 2013, 12:06:26 pm »

My mate has put a belt on his fixed,it will be interesting to see how he gets on in the long run.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #44 on:** 13 July, 2013, 07:21:37 pm »

How did he manage that? An endless belt (which should be the most reliable) needs a frame that can be broken somewhere between the BB and RH dropout, unless you cheat:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpinestars-Cro-Mega-LX-Mountain-Bike-/161062943138?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item25801979a2

nightrider · « **Reply #45 on:** 13 July, 2013, 08:45:47 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 13 July, 2013, 07:21:37 pm

How did he manage that? An endless belt (which should be the most reliable) needs a frame that can be broken somewhere between the BB and RH dropout, unless you cheat:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpinestars-Cro-Mega-LX-Mountain-Bike-/161062943138?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item25801979a2

He cut the frame put the belt on and then put a bracket on the chainstay.The bike is a charge plug and it seems to work OK.He is having a Enigma framed fixed built up now and intends to do the same.The Enigma is a really pretty bike and he intends taking a hacksaw to it.I will try and put some pictures up next week.

hazeii · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 July, 2013, 11:00:08 am »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 13 July, 2013, 07:21:37 pm

How did he manage that? An endless belt (which should be the most reliable) needs a frame that can be broken somewhere between the BB and RH dropout.

IIRC Orange did this a few years back by making the entire dropout a bolt-on.

One criticism of belt drives is what happens if a stone gets chunked up between the belt and the rear sprocket. It happens on Harleys from time to time, presumably less likely on a bicycle as the belts and sprockets are much narrower (and there may not be shoulders on the sprockets).

cyclone · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 July, 2013, 11:57:31 pm »

Not as much these days (for some strange reason...) removing belt guards seem to hasten the demise......

greenmeansgo · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 July, 2013, 09:33:12 am »

Quote from: Pickled Onion on 24 May, 2013, 12:33:19 pm

Connex/Wipperman are good at about ten quid and will last at least 3-4 times as long as the cheap KMC ones, so are more economical.

Are these the ones you're referring to? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wippermann-Connex-Red-Star-100-Single-Speed-Chain-/171034300154#vi-content

I've only used KMC chains and found the Z410 wear pretty quickly, but the Z510 and Z710 more slowly. On a pretty worn drive train it's not really an issue to me. However I'm about to put on a new chainring and sprocket, so it'd be good to know which chain is recommended, once I've used up my supply of KMC cheapos.

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 July, 2013, 11:34:40 am »

The Red Star ones are discontinued now, so that will be "New, Old Stock".

I generally use the 108 model, it seems the most widely available.