Shortest distance between controls and info controls.

[Alouicious]

I'm not one for the short cuts etc.  I like to follow the route sheet exactly - that's how the organiser intended the ride to be, and that's what I want to see.

Be a bit like listening to an album on shuffle, feels disrespectful to the creator!

They're not 'short cuts'. They're Medium cuts through places with shops. As opposed to Long cuts where decent tarmac is used rather than a layer of cow shit.

[Alouicious]

I don't watch tv, Jim 

Not even Eurosport HD Live Cycling Paris-Nice ?

[Philip Whiteman]

As an outsiders view the first thing I can say is I am stunned at how many rules and regulation this sport has. I have never taken part in any sport with so many rules.

A lot of the rules seem to circle around the honesty of the participants of the sport the rules are there to support.

I thought to organise one of these rides all you would need to do was find an interesting route, put in controls at appropriate points and make an accurate route map so other riders can follow their way round the route.

But it appears you need a degree in quatum physics or some other suitable qualification to work out direct lines of transport so those people taking part in the sport cannot cheat and find shorter way.

But as understand it, finding a longer way is acceptable.

I cannot see why anyone would enter a ride with the sole intention of cheating. What would be the point in that?

I could devise some very interesting rides but I am certain I would get it all wrong just because of the reams and reams of red tape this sport appears to the outsider to produce.

I agree with you totally and I am an organiser of two events, one perm and assist in a number of others:-

Rules and rule-making give some people a sense of over inflated self-importance.  Unfortunately,

- they generally miss the point;  
- it makes the lives of people (often organisers) on the ground a misery;
- then question why sportives attract more cyclists than audaxes.  
 
All the time expended on unecessary and over-burdonsome regulation would be better spent upon promoting audaxing as a sport/activity.

[Alouicious]

As an outsiders view the first thing I can say is I am stunned at how many rules and regulation this sport has. I have never taken part in any sport with so many rules.

A lot of the rules seem to circle around the honesty of the participants of the sport the rules are there to support.

I thought to organise one of these rides all you would need to do was find an interesting route, put in controls at appropriate points and make an accurate route map so other riders can follow their way round the route.



But it appears you need a degree in quatum physics or some other suitable qualification to work out direct lines of transport so those people taking part in the sport cannot cheat and find shorter way.

But as understand it, finding a longer way is acceptable.

I cannot see why anyone would enter a ride with the sole intention of cheating. What would be the point in that?

I could devise some very interesting rides but I am certain I would get it all wrong just because of the reams and reams of red tape this sport appears to the outsider to produce.

I agree with you totally and I am an organiser of two events, one perm and assist in a number of others:-

Rules and rule-making give some people a sense of over inflated self-importance.  Unfortunately,

- they generally miss the point;  
- it makes the lives of people (often organisers) on the ground a misery;
- then question why sportives attract more cyclists than audaxes.  
 
All the time expended on unecessary and over-burdonsome regulation would be better spent upon promoting audaxing as a sport/activity.

Philip's Sunrise and Snowdrop are examples of well planned BPs.
The rides are advertised as 123 km with an absolute minimum road distance of 100km JIC the weather is ice.
The participants are well aware if they follow the routesheet, they will cover 123 km ( and get mudsplatted ). The 'shorter' option is still a distance that qualifies for validation.

There is no opportunity to shorten the route under-distance.

[Bendy Bianchi]

The route this weekend was 216km. It doesn't bother me per se that it was overdistance - but when you can find a shorter route that is equally pleasant (if not nicer) than the "official" route then why not? The only thing that I worry about is that if anyone follows me as I'll just lead them off course - so if there is anyone in the vicinity I'll stick to the official route otherwise I'll happily go my own way.

You aren't beating it by taking short-cuts, as long as you've filled in all the infos and been to all the controls. It is perfectly legit, Jim.

[Alouicious]

17th April. Derbyshire Dales 160.

Ride is listed as 160km.

I can get it down to 151km by taking main roads back to HQ from Wyaston.
The main roads go round the Tamworth ringroad, something the organiser has taken into consideration so routes the ride 9km further to avoid.

I don't mind riding on dual carriageways and through shopping Malls on Sundays, so I'll be going to ASDA cafe at Ventura Park for a rest stop.

[Hot Flatus]

So what, Jim?

[Jaded]

Presumably if you rode on Motorways you could get many rides shorter. You could also have a mate take you in the car for a while.

Or you could just go for a ride on your own and forget about how difficult following the spirit of Audax is.

[Alouicious]

While I'm in ASDA, I can get something for Sunday evening meal. There's only ten miles to the finish.

I'll be the one who returns with an ASDA Indian meal for two hanging from his handlebars.

[Bendy Bianchi]

Cobra beer for me please.

[Alouicious]

The 'Spirit of Audax' is orienteering by bicycle, which was alive and kicking years before AUK was formed.

Originally, Audax was not Allure Libre and the whole group stayed together.

AUK modified ( or diluted ) the 'pastime' to be Allure libre and each rider could take his/her own time about it.

Bicycle Orienteering was a more difficult affair, where the Grid Ref of the first check-point was given out on the morning of the ride and riders had to firstly locate it on an OS map.
At the first checkpoint, the Grid Ref of the next check point was given out; and so on and so forth.

Audax, as we know and love is api sapis matter of plotting the route from written instructions days before the event and studying the terrian. If more appealing routes are possible, these can be taken.

When a routesheet arrives, I treat it as a bicycle orienteering event. I locate the positions of the controls and INFOs, and then find the most appealing way between them.

Not illeagal. In my mind, a little bit more 'Audacious' than a Follow my leader procession through the countryside.

[Greenbank]

AUK modified ( or diluted ) the 'pastime' to be Allure libre and each rider could take his/her own time about it.

No, the Allure Libre style started in 1921, more than 50 years before AUK was formed.

Audax is about covering a certain minimum distance within certain time limits, how you choose to navigate has little to do with the 'Spirit of Audax'.

[AndyH]

AAA points? Surely you have to follow the org's route to get those?

[Martin]

AAA points? Surely you have to follow the org's route to get those?

yes (or at least all the hilly bits of it); it's the (normally) only time infos are permitted on perms.

[marcusjb]

When a routesheet arrives, I treat it as a bicycle orienteering event. I locate the positions of the controls and INFOs, and then find the most appealing way between them.

If you find dual carriageways and shopping malls more 'appealing' then good for you!

Not my bag.

[Manotea]

AAA points? Surely you have to follow the org's route to get those?

yes (or at least all the hilly bits of it); it's the (normally) only time infos are permitted on perms.

Rather, it's the same as for any other ride, rider's are not obliged to follow the Org's route, but it's a poor AAA route that allows riders to dodge the hills.

[Alouicious]

We all know what audaxes are Jim, and we know what the rules are. We know that routesheets are advisory, but controls are compulsory.

You seem to trying to play the naughty boy in the class, but haven't yet realised that your class mates are adults.

Yes, we all know the rules.

Hummers asked for opinions on 'pulled' events due to underdistance if the rider is cunning enough to deviate from the routesheet.

My opinion is...
If the organiser is daft enough to plan a route where shortening is possible, the committee can 'pull' it, if they are cunning enough to see the possibility.

If the committee fail to identify a way of shortening the proposed route, underdistance is fair game; and in my opinion, adds to the FUN of the event.

[Martin]

If the organiser is daft enough to plan a route where shortening is possible, the committee can 'pull' it, if they are cunning enough to see the possibility.

there's no cunning required; the regional events secs put the controls into Autoroute and if it comes up as less than 100 200 etc the event is not published until extra controls are added / resited.

[Alouicious]

AAA points? Surely you have to follow the org's route to get those?

yes (or at least all the hilly bits of it); it's the (normally) only time infos are permitted on perms.

Rather, it's the same as for any other ride, rider's are not obliged to follow the Org's route, but it's a poor AAA route that allows riders to dodge the hills.

A clever AAA organiser will put an INFO or a 'roadside control' at the summit.

A 'roadside control' is not a 'secret control', its one of the organiser's mates sitting with his car at the top of the climb.

[Greenbank]

If the organiser is daft enough to plan a route where shortening is possible, the committee can 'pull' it, if they are cunning enough to see the possibility.

there's no cunning required; the regional events secs put the controls into Autoroute and if it comes up as less than 100 200 etc the event is not published until extra controls are added / resited.

Some still slip through if you apply a little cunning.

On Saturday's ride it was possible to take a slightly different route (about 2km longer) back from the first loop to pick up an info control answer that was on the second loop. You could then cut the second loop short by a whole 20km.

[Peter]

If the organiser is daft enough to plan a route where shortening is possible, the committee can 'pull' it, if they are cunning enough to see the possibility.

there's no cunning required; the regional events secs put the controls into Autoroute and if it comes up as less than 100 200 etc the event is not published until extra controls are added / resited.

Some still slip through if you apply a little cunning.

On Saturday's ride it was possible to take a slightly different route (about 2km longer) back from the first loop to pick up an info control answer that was on the second loop. You could then cut the second loop short by a whole 20km.

But why would you do that?

[Bendy Bianchi]

OK, related query. On my way to the start of the ride on Saturday I rode the last 8km of the route and, knowing pretty much what the info control question would be on that part of the route I picked up the info control on the way to the start as well. So I had already done the last 8km plus control before I started.

I then shortcutted the 216km route itself bringing it down to 208km by chopping out that part of the route and taking a quicker way back to the end.

Time was not an issue (indeed I almost finished too quickly, control had only just opened).

What out of ten is my sin rating?

[Alouicious]

If the organiser is daft enough to plan a route where shortening is possible, the committee can 'pull' it, if they are cunning enough to see the possibility.

there's no cunning required; the regional events secs put the controls into Autoroute and if it comes up as less than 100 200 etc the event is not published until extra controls are added / resited.

Some still slip through if you apply a little cunning.

On Saturday's ride it was possible to take a slightly different route (about 2km longer) back from the first loop to pick up an info control answer that was on the second loop. You could then cut the second loop short by a whole 20km.

This thread here will most probably spur organisers and 'the powers at be' to create study routes even harder.

Two 100km BPs in the Midlands can be cut short by 10 and 15km by visiting the INFOs out of sequence.

[border-rider]

What out of ten is my sin rating?

Dunno, but not top marks for mentioning it on a public forum

[Alouicious]

OK, related query. On my way to the start of the ride on Saturday I rode the last 8km of the route and, knowing pretty much what the info control question would be on that part of the route I picked up the info control on the way to the start as well. So I had already done the last 8km plus control before I started.

I then shortcutted the 216km route itself bringing it down to 208km by chopping out that part of the route and taking a quicker way back to the end.

Time was not an issue (indeed I almost finished too quickly, control had only just opened).

What out of ten is my sin rating?

The INFO control venue on the Beacon CC 150km Cotswold Journey,,,, is on my way home from work.