LED room lighting (again)

[Kim]

I think I may have found the holy grail:

The magic word is "SANSI".  They mostly molish studio lighting and grow-lamps.  They mention both CRI *and* flicker in their specifications.

AvE mentioned them in a recent vijaho as he needed fucking bright flicker-free lighting for filming in slow-motion.  "Bet you can't get those in a 240-vole flavour." thought I.  I was wrong: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082W4923M

I have one of these in my hand.  It oozes quality.  Well-ventilated switched-mode power supply visible inside the main body of the lamp, with a heavy ceramic heatsink above with the LEDs around the outside.  This means the light shines sideways in all directions rather than predominantly out the end, which is more useful in most fixtures.

Powered it up, and, well, do not look into 4000lm source with your remaining eye.  Got the flicker-o-meter out, and while it's surprisingly difficult to operate an oscilloscope when you're half-blinded, with careful knob-twiddling I was eventually able to trigger on the merest hint of perfectly sinusoidal ripple.  At 70kHz.  You can tell it's well-smoothed by the way it takes a couple of seconds for the LEDs to extinguish after you switch it offf.  Passes the barakta test with flying colours^[1].

Sure, it's only available in E27 cap.  Use a dongle.  It's worth it.

Now installed in our kitchen, replacing the 30W CFL with the 10% 100Hz ripple.  I had to filch a shade from another room, because it's so bright.

Job Fucking Done.   


I've now ordered some of the 2000lm ones.  The 4000lm is strictly for kitchens with landlord-quality lighting design^[2] and as a main room light for hoovering and when you want to find dropped ball bearings on a mottled grey carpet.


_{[1] The flying colours are orange and purple, in the shape of a ring of LEDs, as seared onto your retinas.
[2] Single pendant, so you're always washing up / chopping in your own shadow.}

[Cudzoziemiec]

Arise, noble sir Kimahad!

[Feanor]

https://www.sealite.com/lighthouse-led-lights/

[Diver300]

[2] Single pendant, so you're always washing up / chopping in your own shadow.[/sub]

Surely you need a dongle and one of these:-
https://uk.sansiled.com/60w-led-garage-ceiling-light.html

They aren't even expensive. I paid about that for an LED garage light in the shape of a fluorescent fitting.

[Kim]

I think I may have found the holy grail

SANSI update:  I now have some of the 2000lm 18W version.  This one has a more conventional flat aluminium PCB piece of ceramic with the LEDs mounted to it, for a less impressive 180 degree field of illumination (of course that might work better in some fixtures).  Similar well-cooled PSU design.  Colour temperature and colour rendering seem similar.  I measured ripple at 60kHz this time, so it's also barakta-approved.

I await the delivery of some BC22 to E27 adaptors...

[hellymedic]

Sainsbury's now stock the R63 7w (60w equivalent) E27 fitting, lamps that adorn my kitchen for £5.

I've just fitted one of these to replace yet another from the long-life lamp company.
We will see...

Nearly 2 years on, this lamp has lasted, so far.

The lamp over the sink is flickering like mad. My records state it's a Sainsbury's model, replaced 11/11/17.

The lamp over my head appears to have lasted since before I started recording lamp changes.

The lamp over the kitchen sink, replaced in January, has failed again after 8 months, including all six of the lightest months of the year. That would have been less than 6000 hours had the light been switched on all the time so it's had maybe 1500-2000 hours.

Long Life Lamp Company my arse!

[Kim]

I think I may have found the holy grail

SANSI update:  I now have some of the 2000lm 18W version.  This one has a more conventional flat aluminium PCB piece of ceramic with the LEDs mounted to it, for a less impressive 180 degree field of illumination (of course that might work better in some fixtures).  Similar well-cooled PSU design.  Colour temperature and colour rendering seem similar.  I measured ripple at 60kHz this time, so it's also barakta-approved.

I await the delivery of some BC22 to E27 adaptors...

And now a couple of the 3000lm 22W.  These have the 270 degrees ring of LEDs like the 4000lm version.  Ripple at 83kHz, so again no flicker.

In summary then:
18W 2000lm 3000K (and presumably all the lower power versions):  Bright, directional light, best for 'spot' type fittings, or above a stairwell or something where it doesn't matter that the ceiling remains gloomy.  Pleasant halogen-ish colour temperature.

22W 3000lm 3000K: Very good omnidirectional spread, though not quite as isotropic as a tungsten lamp.  Works well in the now legendary spherical paper lampshade to provide a bright central ceiling light.

27W 4000lm 3000K: As above but brighter.  Overkill for most applications, but works well for a kitchen or bike-fettling room.

I believe there's also a dimmable version of the 4000lm one.  That would be a good choice if you have a dimmer.  I haven't tested one so can't vouch for whether it flickers.

They also come in 5000K daylight flavour.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/page/F9B5CA5F-F563-485F-9C26-5BD5A55195CA

[Ham]

I think I may have found the holy grail

SANSI update:  I now have some of the 2000lm 18W version.  This one has a more conventional flat aluminium PCB piece of ceramic with the LEDs mounted to it, for a less impressive 180 degree field of illumination (of course that might work better in some fixtures).  Similar well-cooled PSU design.  Colour temperature and colour rendering seem similar.  I measured ripple at 60kHz this time, so it's also barakta-approved.

I await the delivery of some BC22 to E27 adaptors...

And now a couple of the 3000lm 22W.  These have the 270 degrees ring of LEDs like the 4000lm version.  Ripple at 83kHz, so again no flicker.

In summary then:
18W 2000lm 3000K (and presumably all the lower power versions):  Bright, directional light, best for 'spot' type fittings, or above a stairwell or something where it doesn't matter that the ceiling remains gloomy.  Pleasant halogen-ish colour temperature.

22W 3000lm 3000K: Very good omnidirectional spread, though not quite as isotropic as a tungsten lamp.  Works well in the now legendary spherical paper lampshade to provide a bright central ceiling light.

27W 4000lm 3000K: As above but brighter.  Overkill for most applications, but works well for a kitchen or bike-fettling room.

I believe there's also a dimmable version of the 4000lm one.  That would be a good choice if you have a dimmer.  I haven't tested one so can't vouch for whether it flickers.

They also come in 5000K daylight flavour.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/page/F9B5CA5F-F563-485F-9C26-5BD5A55195CA

It will come as no surprise for everyone to hear She Knows What She Is Talking About.

AREN'T they good?

[BrianI]

I think I may have found the holy grail

SANSI update:  I now have some of the 2000lm 18W version.  This one has a more conventional flat aluminium PCB piece of ceramic with the LEDs mounted to it, for a less impressive 180 degree field of illumination (of course that might work better in some fixtures).  Similar well-cooled PSU design.  Colour temperature and colour rendering seem similar.  I measured ripple at 60kHz this time, so it's also barakta-approved.

I await the delivery of some BC22 to E27 adaptors...

Careful with the BC22 to E27 Adaptors...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ2EKCUp7-E

[hellymedic]

Sainsbury's have listed the R63s I use in the kitchen for at least 5 consecutive weeks.
They have always been unavailable.
At the moment, I only want them as spares...
They didn't list them for a few weeks but listed them again yesterday, so I ordered some.
Like the three bird roast (vide infra) they were unavailable again...

ETA Now (20/11) unavailable. Website suggest R80 instead of R63. (Numbers indicate lamp diameter in millimetres.)
I think I'll ignore their kind suggestion...

[Kim]

Careful with the BC22 to E27 Adaptors...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ2EKCUp7-E

Ugh, 7 minutes of video to explain what can be written in a single sentence.  But yes, it's a valid point.

Personally I have a healthy distrust of both types of lamp holder.  Getting a finger on the live terminal of a BC22 is entirely possible when groping around in the dark (DAHIKT), but the Edison is riskier if you don't preserve correct polarity (eg. with these adaptors or when the lamp is plugged in via an unpolarised plug like they do in ABROAD, where the FOREIGNS come from).

If you're going to use one, mate the lamp with the adaptor first (thereby covering up the metal part of the Edison), and then use the bayonet part to install it.  Which you'd probably do anyway, because that's the less fiddly way round.

And like those BS1363 socket covers, don't leave them lying around where children could hurt themselves with them.

[aidan.f]

 BC lamp connectors including a self disconnect when the lamp is removed or interlocked switch are now  a 'thing'
For the unitiated re. Socket covers..
http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/index.html

[Cudzoziemiec]

but the Edison is riskier if you don't preserve correct polarity

My late FiL was an electrician. Many many years ago something I've forgotten coincided with him visiting and he ended up poking around in our light switch. He rarely got angry but this was one occasion, when he discovered the switch had been wired into the neutral leaving the bulb and holder always live. "Wired by plumbers" was his frequent verdict.

[fuaran]

Seems some of those ES adapters have a plastic screw thread, and just contacts on the bottom. So the bulb won't touch the live bits until it is screwed all of the way in.
eg the IKEA version. Photos here. https://goughlui.com/2015/07/26/diy-adapting-out-of-tricky-light-bulb-situations/

[Tim Hall]

I'm looking at replacing the 1500mm T8 58W fluorescent in the kitchen with a Philips LED replacement.

New 58W fluorescents put out 5400lm 4000K colour temperature . The LED replacement only manages 2000lm 4000K colour temperature.

Is this difference going to be an issue? I assume the fluorescent emits light 360 degrees around the tube whilst the LED only shines "downwards". Is that the cause for the discrepancy in the output?

[Jurek]

I'm looking at replacing the 1500mm T8 58W fluorescent in the kitchen with a Philips LED replacement.

New 58W fluorescents put out 5400lm 4000K colour temperature . The LED replacement only manages 2000lm 4000K colour temperature.

Is this difference going to be an issue? I assume the fluorescent emits light 360 degrees around the tube whilst the LED only shines "downwards". Is that the cause for the discrepancy in the output?

I've a number (4) of Flouros replaced by the LED variety. They don't appear to be directional.

[aidan.f]

At 6000 lumens for £24 I don't think you can beat the VTAC VT8-50 Very neat fitting as well. I have four of the 50's in my garage / workshop.
https://cpc.farnell.com/v-tac/668-vt-8-50/grill-fitting-50w-led-150cm-4000k/dp/LA07401

[Tim Hall]

I'm looking at replacing the 1500mm T8 58W fluorescent in the kitchen with a Philips LED replacement.

New 58W fluorescents put out 5400lm 4000K colour temperature . The LED replacement only manages 2000lm 4000K colour temperature.

Is this difference going to be an issue? I assume the fluorescent emits light 360 degrees around the tube whilst the LED only shines "downwards". Is that the cause for the discrepancy in the output?

I've a number (4) of Flouros replaced by the LED variety. They don't appear to be directional.

Are yours straight tube for tube swaps? What model? What's the light level like? The blurb on Screwfix suggested the Philips LED "tube" was directional, with a line to indicate the right orientation.

[Jurek]

I'm looking at replacing the 1500mm T8 58W fluorescent in the kitchen with a Philips LED replacement.

New 58W fluorescents put out 5400lm 4000K colour temperature . The LED replacement only manages 2000lm 4000K colour temperature.

Is this difference going to be an issue? I assume the fluorescent emits light 360 degrees around the tube whilst the LED only shines "downwards". Is that the cause for the discrepancy in the output?

I've a number (4) of Flouros replaced by the LED variety. They don't appear to be directional.

Are yours straight tube for tube swaps? What model? What's the light level like? The blurb on Screwfix suggested the Philips LED "tube" was directional, with a line to indicate the right orientation.

No. Not tube for tube swaps. They're actually these:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LLM6WA.html
Deployed under the desk where the electric spaghetti lives, and in the wardrobe.I now realise that the fact that they come with a diffuser, disguises whether or not they are directional.

[Tim Hall]

Reporting back. In the end I got a Fusion 2400lm 4000K 1500mm LED tube from CEF. This one.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4373970-23w-5ft-led-tube-glass-cool-white

Came complete with LED starter (as they all seem to do). Straight swap, turned it on and it worked.
It is directional (300 degree output, rather than 360 degree with  a black line on the "dark" side, so it gets inserted properly.

Plenty enough light for my (approx) 3m x 2m kitchen. 

[Kim]

"The bathroom light's flickering." said the world's crappest superhero.  "Check the bedroom", said I, reaching for the multimeter.

224V, that's a little bit low.

Flicker-o-meter confirms ripple on both bedroom and bathroom lamps.  Not the lamp then.

Check the graph, and the voltage had briefly dropped out of spec a few minutes previously.  Marvellous.

[barakta]

It is indeed the world's crappest superpower.

[Kim]

Note for next time: Turn one of the Sansis on and see if they're stable.

[aidan.f]

Kim,  So the lamp control circuitry had dropped out of regulation?  I suppose it's to be expected <216 Volts. If it was physically possible I could lend you a Variac for test purposes. (tucked under a bench for years on the off-chance it would come in useful one day).

[Kim]

Kim,  So the lamp control circuitry had dropped out of regulation?  I suppose it's to be expected <216 Volts. If it was physically possible I could lend you a Variac for test purposes. (tucked under a bench for years on the off-chance it would come in useful one day).

Yep.  That was what the initial symptom of the great mains voltage debacle of 2019, in which various men in orange from Western Power Distribution sucked through their teeth at the state of Silly Oak's distribution network (too many HMO conversions, not enough substation capacity), ultimately culminating in them digging up the pavement and switching us to a different phase.

I think we decided that those particular lamps (the Wilko filament ones that don't normally flicker) start to ripple below about 225V (I can't see the flicker - that's barakta's superpower - but do see a drop in brightness as it starts to drop out.  Since then I've built more flicker-free dimmable lighting that uses a universal switching power supply, so the mains voltage can do what it likes.

I expect the Sansi lamps are fairly tolerant, as they evidently use a proper switching supply with a transformer and nice big electrolytics, rather the one of those clever little LED lighting regulator chips.