Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: DanialW on 26 February, 2010, 04:09:20 pm

Title: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 26 February, 2010, 04:09:20 pm
At the last AUK committee meeting, the board agreed that I could carry out a trial of validating DIY permanent events that could attract AAA points. The idea is that this will be an extension to the DIY by GPS permanents, which we're looking to run from May 2010. 

The software that Pete Coates developed to analyse gpx files, as part of the trial to validate DIYs using gpx files, allows us to calculate climb. Pete can tweak this software so it replicates Steve Snook's method of reconciling climbing recorded on a gpx file with contour counting.

So, I'm looking for riders who'd like to help out. You'd need to carry out a hilly DIY of at least 100km, and to record the route on a GPS unit. Rides carried out during the trial are validated free of charge.

If you'd like to take part, drop me a line either on here or by email.

Ta muchly.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 26 February, 2010, 04:14:49 pm
Ooh. My DIY 100 round the Surrey Hills is gagging for this.

To use the usual route I have to make it 120km (not a problem with the very relaxed DIY timings for BP rides).

GPS would allow me to trim it down to 100km and it's easily in AAA territory.

I may be dropping you an email at some point...
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: scottlington on 26 February, 2010, 04:44:26 pm
I'd be up for joining you on that Alex. Be good to have two readings from two different GPS units for the same ride I guess for comparision.

Drop me a PM if you arrange something with Daniel.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 26 February, 2010, 05:15:31 pm
I'll reply to your PM later, FR. Just wanted to point out that the shortest distance rule will still apply. As you can put 'controls' anywhere, that shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Chris N on 26 February, 2010, 06:19:10 pm
I'll give it a go please Danial.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 27 February, 2010, 12:16:01 pm
I'd be up for joining you on that Alex. Be good to have two readings from two different GPS units for the same ride I guess for comparision.

Excellent. I hope to get in a couple of runs in the next few months (especially if I want to ride the SA400).

(Can't sort anything out now as I didn't bring my work laptop home and that's got my GPS stuff and Autoroute on it.)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: JayP on 27 February, 2010, 09:08:05 pm
I'll have a go :thumbsup:
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: border-rider on 27 February, 2010, 10:30:59 pm
I'd like to

My DIY perms are decidedly lumpy, and I have a GPS I'd like to use properly.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: CountrySickness on 28 February, 2010, 10:45:12 am
I'd very much like to have a go at this one, I must have 10 potential 100k AAA routes from my house with but with barely a control between them, but that's the Welsh Borders for you.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Chris S on 28 February, 2010, 11:44:19 am
* sigh *  :-\
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 28 February, 2010, 11:49:07 am
I could bag loads of AAA points by riding into the Pennines. There is no other way to get AAA for DIYs so I may just have to enter the 20th Century and get a GPS


I presume 'the software' checks for hilly sections within a longer ride as per the regs.  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 28 February, 2010, 01:18:30 pm
As a complete aside, this initiative has the potential to stack the odds of the AAA championship against those not fortunate enough to live next to the Pennines, in Wales etc.  Given 50km rides can count towards that championship, in theory one could do an AAA rated event every day - in theory by commuting to work.

Presumably this is something the committee has discussed?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: mattc on 28 February, 2010, 05:24:52 pm
As this "championship" can be won with no 200k+ rides, I don't take it seriously anyway ...   

<turns off GPS and runs>
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 28 February, 2010, 05:36:15 pm
As a complete aside, this initiative has the potential to stack the odds of the AAA championship against those not fortunate enough to live next to the Pennines, in Wales etc.  Given 50km rides can count towards that championship, in theory one could do an AAA rated event every day - in theory by commuting to work.

Presumably this is something the committee has discussed?
and makes winning the AAA easier for those with GPSs.  GPS validations or not, it's always easier for people living in or close to hilly regions to do AAA events or perms.  But yes I agree with your point.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: damerell on 02 March, 2010, 03:14:30 am
As a complete aside, this initiative has the potential to stack the odds of the AAA championship against those not fortunate enough to live next to the Pennines, in Wales etc.  Given 50km rides can count towards that championship, in theory one could do an AAA rated event every day - in theory by commuting to work.

Every points contest we have is made easier by personal circumstances - not being in work, living somewhere convenient, being willing to drive. I don't see this as fundamentally different.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 02 March, 2010, 08:09:58 am
As a complete aside, this initiative has the potential to stack the odds of the AAA championship against those not fortunate enough to live next to the Pennines, in Wales etc.  Given 50km rides can count towards that championship, in theory one could do an AAA rated event every day - in theory by commuting to work.

Every points contest we have is made easier by personal circumstances - not being in work, living somewhere convenient, being willing to drive. I don't see this as fundamentally different.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make.  This has the potential to change the AAA championship from something that involves true grit and sacrifice to a token trophy won by someone pootling around local 50km and 100km rides whenever they are travelling to work.

Don't get me wrong, I think the opening up of rides to GPS is a good thing.  But as with all things new, the impact on other aspects of our club should be considered.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2010, 09:19:47 am
Indeed. I could do a 100km commute home from work every day and get 1.75AAA points. I wouldn't even have to ride at the weekend. That would be over 3 times the current AAA record.

I would have still climbed the appropriate number of meters, but it's hardly audacious.

Maybe there should be a 50% rule; i.e. at least 50% of your AAA points must come from Calendar events or Perms.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2010, 10:42:33 am
Indeed. I could do a 100km commute home from work every day and get 1.75AAA points. I wouldn't even have to ride at the weekend. That would be over 3 times the current AAA record.

I would have still climbed the appropriate number of meters, but it's hardly audacious.

Maybe there should be a 50% rule; i.e. at least 50% of your AAA points must come from Calendar events or Perms.
100 hilly kilometers every day? Sounds audacious to me!

OK, that was a bit extreme, drop it to being an extended commute once a week and once at the weekend. 1.75 * 2 * 52 = 182 AAA.

Get in to work early one day, leave work at 4pm and I'd be home for 9pm.

It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: mattc on 02 March, 2010, 11:39:32 am
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 02 March, 2010, 11:44:13 am
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: TOBY on 02 March, 2010, 12:51:51 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 02 March, 2010, 12:53:18 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think the opening up of rides to GPS is a good thing.  But as with all things new, the impact on other aspects of our club should be considered.

Agreed. This is a point to raise with Steve Snook. The AAA is his championship, and the committee tend not to intervene in these things.

The AAA has always been ripe for gaming. I did it myself in 2007. marcus' efforts the following year were many times greater, a fact not reflected in the relative points awarded.

I've no doubt Steve's considered the implications of the DIY AAA project. I'm sure he'll have something to say on the draft report on the process that I hope will go to the committee in June.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 02 March, 2010, 01:46:50 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?

Could do. I am planning on producing some perms starting in Leeds.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: TOBY on 02 March, 2010, 01:48:08 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?

Could do. I am planning on producing some perms starting in Leeds.

I'll keep my eye out for news of curly hair heading south.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 02 March, 2010, 01:53:45 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?

Could do. I am planning on producing some perms starting in Leeds.

I'll keep my eye out for news of curly hair heading south.
My

300 heads North West  to Carnforth  then back via Ribblesdale and Wensleydale.
400 heads North West to Carlisle via Teesdale and back via Mallerstang and Wensleydale.


Both of these have hilly sections that might be candidates for an AAA point but I'll need a GPS and some software to analyse the track to determine this. (I ain't going to calorie count). I've done them both as DIYs.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 02 March, 2010, 01:59:38 pm
Danial - when is the trial period running from / to?

As I PM'd, keen to test a particular ride using GPS DIY but as I've pencilled it in for 8 May, not sure if this would be "too late" to be of any use as a test ride, as it were.

PS: Made this a public post as others might want to know.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2010, 02:17:25 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?

(I know it wasn't directed at me but...)

a) Takes a long time to sort out (compared to a DIY entry).
b) Uninteresting ride (50km of busy aterial roads out of and back in to London, uninspiring roads until you get to the sticks). Fancy a rush hour blast along the A24 from Clapham to Epsom?
c) Start/Finish 8 miles apart (with the start in, near enough, Central London).
d) No useful controls apart from petrol stations and the odd shop.
e) Can't adapt it easily (moving a control, doing it in the reverse direction, etc).

It's a good training ride that suits me, but that doesn't make it a good Perm Audax to suit everyone.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 02 March, 2010, 02:19:13 pm
Danial - when is the trial period running from / to?

As I PM'd, keen to test a particular ride using GPS DIY but as I've pencilled it in for 8 May, not sure if this would be "too late" to be of any use as a test ride, as it were.

PS: Made this a public post as others might want to know.

The next committee meeting is early June, I think. I'd need enough time to draft something, circulate it for feedback, and to submit it before the meeting. Since I've only had a handful of responses, and the only tracklog completed so far is, errr, mine, I don't think early May is likely to be a problem for me at all.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: TOBY on 02 March, 2010, 02:36:31 pm
It probably boils down to whether a 5 hour 100km ride in the Surrey Hills done 5 or 6 times is anywhere near equal to something like the Maniac Grimpeur or Mille Cymru. (No being the answer.)
But isn't this the same question as discussed during the AAA points revision? nowt to do with GPSes. I think.
Yes & no. Trial by GPS may mean I can do 100km from my door and get some AAA points. The new AAA formula meant I still had to travel to the start of a perm or calendar event to get AAAs.

or register your own perm?

(I know it wasn't directed at me but...)

a) Takes a long time to sort out (compared to a DIY entry).
b) Uninteresting ride (50km of busy aterial roads out of and back in to London, uninspiring roads until you get to the sticks). Fancy a rush hour blast along the A24 from Clapham to Epsom?
c) Start/Finish 8 miles apart (with the start in, near enough, Central London).
d) No useful controls apart from petrol stations and the odd shop.
e) Can't adapt it easily (moving a control, doing it in the reverse direction, etc).

It's a good training ride that suits me, but that doesn't make it a good Perm Audax to suit everyone.

But we're talking about a competition not suiting everyone else  ;)

Better yet set it up as a Prohibitively expensive X-rated calendar event 200 times a year  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2010, 02:38:46 pm
Better yet set it up as a Prohibitively expensive X-rated calendar event 200 times a year  :thumbsup:

Facilities: A(1) X L P R T S (1)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 03:37:00 pm
OK, if my PowerTap wheel turns up I'll hopefully get a chance to rag it around the Surrey Hills. if/when caveats apply.

Danial, what about validating this ride from a tracklog:-

Club des Cingl&eacute;s du Mont-Ventoux (http://www.clubcinglesventoux.org/index.php?sid=2&nav=14)

4800m climbing in 138km. :)

(As an aside, how much effort would it be to register the above Ventoux ride as a Perm with a completed official Club Cingles Brevet as proof-of-passage? Although I'd like to ride it once for myself before doing this...)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: pdm on 09 March, 2010, 03:52:55 pm
I'd be happy to do a few 100km turns in the Peaks this spring...
I am not remotely interested in AAA points (due to doing 150+ vertical km of climbing a year just commuting to work) but I would be very happy to provide you with tracks for analysis - I will even do the contour counting for you as a comparison.....
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 10 March, 2010, 08:07:16 pm
Hi everyone

I was away for a long weekend, and now I find myself both up to my neck at work, and floored with a stomach bug.

I promise to get back to everyone on Friday.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 10 March, 2010, 08:31:49 pm
I promise to get back to everyone on Friday.

Read me latest PM before my first. It'll save you a big chunk of work.

Ta. :)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: kcass on 10 March, 2010, 08:35:11 pm
(As an aside, how much effort would it be to register the above Ventoux ride as a Perm with a completed official Club Cingles Brevet as proof-of-passage?

Don't you only get a stamp each time you get to the top? Not that anyone would go all that  way and cheat, obviously.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 10 March, 2010, 08:43:47 pm
(As an aside, how much effort would it be to register the above Ventoux ride as a Perm with a completed official Club Cingles Brevet as proof-of-passage?

Don't you only get a stamp each time you get to the top? Not that anyone would go all that  way and cheat, obviously.

I think you have to get stamps in each of the three towns (Bedoin, Malaucene, Sault) too.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: kcass on 10 March, 2010, 08:54:52 pm
It's been a while since I read the rules I have to admit.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 13 April, 2010, 09:02:45 am
Is this trial still running ? Can someone confirm that for a 100km ride to be eligible for AAA points then it needs at least 150mm 1500m of ascent ? Then with 1500m it will get 1.5 AAA points ?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: dasmoth on 13 April, 2010, 09:34:42 am
to be eligible for AAA points then it needs at least 150mm of ascent ?

Oooh.  Cambridgeshire-friendly rules?

Perhaps I stand a chance at this AAA business after all!
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 13 April, 2010, 09:36:55 am
hee hee, someone does read my posts then !!! Got to give those Fenmen a chance to show how tough they are. Of course I meant 1500m
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 13 April, 2010, 11:03:17 am
the trial is still on. Email me at audax at danialwebb dot com for more details.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 03 May, 2010, 08:44:13 pm
Not sure if this is the right thread.  Looking for some tech help, related to my impending "trial" ride.

My GPS (etrex legend) can store 10,000 active tracklog points but 750 saved tracklog points.  My route is 210km (but say 220km to all off route incidents).  I can set it up as "wrap" or "full" mode.  Tracklog sampling can be done by distance or time.

What settings would I be best advised to use in order to capture the route information (bearing in mind this is to be submitted to Danial for validation).

Thanks for any help.  My GPS knowledge is "basic" - I can guess what to do based on common sense but would like to hear from more experienced minds.   Hopefully any comments will "help" other riders as well.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 03 May, 2010, 08:49:29 pm
I set my Vista C to 'auto'. 220km on Saturday took 3157 points. I used the same setting when I did a 100km AAA ride the week before, I've viewed the track and it looked OK, I have submitted it to Danial but he's not commented so far. Part of the trial is probably trying to determine what parameters need to be set.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 03 May, 2010, 09:00:20 pm
Do you mean the ride you did on 24 April, Mr Nesbitt?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 03 May, 2010, 09:03:52 pm
Do you mean the ride you did on 24 April, Mr Nesbitt?
the 100km Queensbury, yes.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 03 May, 2010, 09:08:35 pm
You sent it to me on the 24th, and I replied on the 26th to tell you I had added it to John validation list, and sent it to Steve for its AAA points. Steve added the AAA points the same day, but I doubt you'll be able to see either points yet.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 03 May, 2010, 09:12:27 pm
You sent it to me on the 24th, and I replied on the 26th to tell you I had added it to John validation list, and sent it to Steve for its AAA points. Steve added the AAA points the same day, but I doubt you'll be able to see either points yet.
I know all that.  :) thanks, what I mean't to FY was that you didn't say if the settings I used were not sufficient. By default   I suppose since you'd told me you'd passed the details on I should have assumed my settings were OK. Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 03 May, 2010, 09:16:06 pm
Oh, I see! Sorry!

It's impossible to give too much advice on calibrating a gps unit, because they vary so much. The only universal advice I can think off is to allow them to run for a few minutes before you set off, to home in on your location, and to adjust to the altitude.

Unless you've deliberately set your machine to not read your location very often, it should record enough for us to be able to read the track.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 03 May, 2010, 09:18:39 pm
OK.  I'll give it a test run on a local loop after work to see how it goes.  I don't even know yet whether you have to save the track or if it stays in memory when you switch the unit off  :-[

Best way to find out is to jfdi.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: MSeries on 03 May, 2010, 09:21:11 pm
OK.  I'll give it a test run on a local loop after work to see how it goes.  I don't even know yet whether you have to save the track or if it stays in memory when you switch the unit off  :-[

It stays in memory. Frankly Frankie says don't save it as it gets compressed and I presume it'll lose some info. You'll get several tracks some of which are one point. I just deleted these in MapSource and joined the main ones
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: border-rider on 03 May, 2010, 09:30:20 pm
OK.  I'll give it a test run on a local loop after work to see how it goes.  I don't even know yet whether you have to save the track or if it stays in memory when you switch the unit off  :-[

Best way to find out is to jfdi.

set it to write to the data card (as well) just in case.

Remember to turn the GPS off at the end (and at the start if it was on before) to get a distinct track for the ride.

I just set my Legend to "auto" like Mr N, and the track looked pretty well-populated for a 220k.  Danial seemed to have no troubles with it, I think.

As you say, JFDI.  It'll be fine :)
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 03 May, 2010, 09:31:58 pm
Old eTrexes (the basic yellow one with no mapping) will lose the time information from each trackpoint if you saved the current track.

No idea if it's true with the later eTrexes (Legend/Vista/etc). Can't remember which one you got...
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Martin on 04 May, 2010, 10:06:32 am
the software that Danial mentions is working well; however there can be a problem if you switch the thing on anywhere but at the start and finish of the ride, it will record these points and think they are part of it.

I found a solution on Mapsource; you can right click the exact track you have ridden and cut it (even cutting out the bits like riding from the ferry / car park to the start and back); then open a new page and paste it onto the blank map; it will lose the extraneous points.

I took a track of the IOW Randonee on Sunday with a view to having the RTI ride as an acceptable year round perm for the Grimpeurs du Sud, the climbing figure is OK but I did a bit of extra flat distance which made it over for the altitude gain and thus not eligible for AAA, will try someone else's track.

I presume 'the software' checks for hilly sections within a longer ride as per the regs.  :thumbsup:

no it doesn't; it just calculates the total climb, distance and time taken. You could probably do the "hilly section" bit by making it into 2 tracks though.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 04 May, 2010, 10:49:27 am
no it doesn't; it just calculates the total climb, distance and time taken. You could probably do the "hilly section" bit by making it into 2 tracks though.

Finding the hilliest section can be a non-trivial task. For example, there's a section of The Dean that teeters on the edge of claiming AAA points for a 100km section but finding it by trial and error is pretty tricky.

I've got a perl script to do it on a GPX file although it's very picky about the format of the GPX file.

I'm sure the software Danial mentions can be extended to add this at some point in the future. I can't see a reason for it not to other than time/resources/volunteers/etc. I'm happy to share the work I've done on my version.

The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Martin on 04 May, 2010, 10:58:53 am
The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.

is that from displaying the properties of the track on Mapsource and deleting the bits that were obviously not on the ride according to the time? that's what I did (plus the sitting around at the finish fiddling with it while waiting for my mate).

what I'm having problems doing is identifying a bit where I went into Bembridge twice along the same road as I did not think one of the controls was where it actually was, the list of points does not readily identify this bit nor does showing it on the map. If it was a permanent version of the ride the whole flat Bembridge control section (and a few others) could be ignored.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Manotea on 04 May, 2010, 11:31:47 am
I usually "tidy up" tracks using Mapsource by first concatonating track segments to create a consolisated track as described above then selecting track properties.
From here you can step through the track point by point to delete all of the points where you wander off route to visit shops, take wrong turns whatever to get a final clean track.
HTH
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Martin on 04 May, 2010, 11:38:11 am
I usually "tidy up" tracks using Mapsource by first concatonating track segments to create a consolisated track as described above then selecting track properties.
From here you can step through the track point by point to delete all of the points where you wander off route to visit shops, take wrong turns whatever to get a final clean track.
HTH


YHM (with attachment  ;))
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Greenbank on 04 May, 2010, 11:57:45 am
The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.

is that from displaying the properties of the track on Mapsource and deleting the bits that were obviously

No, I edit the GPX files directly in a text editor after finding the appropriate time value from looking at the plot in GPS Trackmaker (Free edition).

I don't use Mapsource at all.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: frankly frankie on 04 May, 2010, 02:31:01 pm
Old eTrexes (the basic yellow one with no mapping) will lose the time information from each trackpoint if you saved the current track.
No idea if it's true with the later eTrexes (Legend/Vista/etc). Can't remember which one you got...

All Etrexes including the latest models do that.  Hence the advice to submit the 'Active Track' (and set it to record the max 10000 points - which is not the factory default).
Tracks automatically logged to data card are complete - but you have to set this up, it's not the factory default.
Touchscreen models save tracks properly - but can't do the daily logging thing, which is annoying.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 04 May, 2010, 10:08:49 pm
JFDI yields results.

Trial run on a ride after work suggests track logs are easy peasy to set up and extract  :)

Looking forward to the live AUK test on Saturday (despite the weather).
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 13 May, 2010, 10:42:31 pm
A question.

Is there any reason why this initiative couldn't be used to turn Raids (such as Alpine, Pyreneen, Corisica etc) into AUK validated rides?  Or does that go against the spirit of the club?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Phixie on 13 May, 2010, 11:26:52 pm
A question.

Is there any reason why this initiative couldn't be used to turn Raids (such as Alpine, Pyreneen, Corisica etc) into AUK validated rides?  Or does that go against the spirit of the club?

No insurance cover.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 14 May, 2010, 08:07:52 am
AUK allows its members to ride a DIY anywhere. We wouldn't know if that ride was an overseas, non-AUK event, and I doubt anyone would mind. It might look perhaps a little indulgent to validate the same ride here and there, but I think that's a decision for the rider to make.

Someone else has asked about doing this recently, btw, but I'm uncertain anything came of it. Another rider asked about claiming a UK ride, but that fell through as it became apparent that the two rides were incompatible. Can't remember the exact details, tbh.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 14 May, 2010, 09:40:43 am
Hmmm.  I might force the issue by submitting an entry in respect of the Raid Alpine to Martin and correspond with the AAA man.

The insurance point I don't understand as AUK has overseas permanents and DIY events.  Riders would, in any case, typically be covered by travel insurance.

The point about "is it in the spirit" is the interesting one.  The raid is recorded by FFCT but I (personally) see this as no different to the CTC audax rides that go towards the CTC awards.

Indeed, if this DIY with GPS were permitted, I would submit them to AUK as full-on perms.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 May, 2010, 10:23:50 am
No-one's doubting the credentials of the Raid Alpine or anyone who rides it - but the simple fact is that the only validations AUK recognises are AUK's own and any BRM.  There are plenty of other events of equal or higher standard out there, but who is going to draw the lines, decide which events are or are not acceptable, and make sure everybody knows about them and so has the option to ride them?
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 14 May, 2010, 10:34:01 am
I think the question being asked is slightly different, FF. I think FY is asking if he can submit a DIY to us, for a route that is, say, a Raid Alpine event.

It's double-validation, but only one validation is with us. The other is with an event unrelated to audax. I see no problem with that, but personally I think actively seeking double validation comes across as a bit odd.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: Weirdy Biker on 14 May, 2010, 10:37:15 am
No-one's doubting the credentials of the Raid Alpine or anyone who rides it - but the simple fact is that the only validations AUK recognises are AUK's own and any BRM.  There are plenty of other events of equal or higher standard out there, but who is going to draw the lines, decide which events are or are not acceptable, and make sure everybody knows about them and so has the option to ride them?

Agree entirely.  I guess what I'm doing is playing Devil's Advocate to see just how flexible the DIY system is.  I am not desparate to get the Raid "validated" by AUK but others might be.  As you suggest, there is a line somewhere but I'm unclear where it is.  I won't even go to "if a raid turns out to be ok, what about a sportive".  But someone will eventually ask that question.  Maybe the barrier will turn out to be the Regs that say riders must not receive assistance (will kabosh sportives but possibly not raids, particularly if self-supported).

NB: The Raid DIY would be to BP standard not BR.  The DIY with GPS opens up the possibility that these rides will count towards AAA.  That requires two things: would a Raid done as a DIY or a perm be validated by AUK and would the AAA man validate such rides for AAA points.  In broad terms, the Raids feel like the kind of routes that are in the spirit of AUK.  But whether having them validated by AUK alongside separate validation by a local cycling club of FFTC is in that same spirit is a bit more challenging.
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: mattc on 14 May, 2010, 10:45:55 am
I think the question being asked is slightly different, FF. I think FY is asking if he can submit a DIY to us, for a route that is, say, a Raid Alpine event.

It's double-validation, but only one validation is with us. The other is with an event unrelated to audax. I see no problem with that, but personally I think actively seeking double validation comes across as a bit odd.
Purely commenting as a rider (who has looked at some possible rides abroad), I think I see why FY would do this:

If I was points-chasing, or RRTY-chasing, or AAA-chasing, I might need every ride to count (or want them all to count). I might also fancy a "Classic" ride overseas e.g. the Raid-P. But I care not one hoot who validates the Raid-P, or if I will appear on some foreign list somewhere - I want my AUK points!!!

Does that makes sense?

[I'm avoiding the "spirit of audax" thing - I have issues about doing a big bunch ride* and claiming points. I also have doubts whether typical alpine passes are a comparable way of scoring AAA points, a system designed for UK terrain].
* No idea if the Raid events are like this!
Title: Re: DIY with AAA points trial
Post by: DanialW on 14 May, 2010, 01:22:09 pm
AAA works fine for alpine climbing.