DIY with AAA points trial

[border-rider]

OK.  I'll give it a test run on a local loop after work to see how it goes.  I don't even know yet whether you have to save the track or if it stays in memory when you switch the unit off  

Best way to find out is to jfdi.

set it to write to the data card (as well) just in case.

Remember to turn the GPS off at the end (and at the start if it was on before) to get a distinct track for the ride.

I just set my Legend to "auto" like Mr N, and the track looked pretty well-populated for a 220k.  Danial seemed to have no troubles with it, I think.

As you say, JFDI.  It'll be fine

[Greenbank]

Old eTrexes (the basic yellow one with no mapping) will lose the time information from each trackpoint if you saved the current track.

No idea if it's true with the later eTrexes (Legend/Vista/etc). Can't remember which one you got...

[Martin]

the software that Danial mentions is working well; however there can be a problem if you switch the thing on anywhere but at the start and finish of the ride, it will record these points and think they are part of it.

I found a solution on Mapsource; you can right click the exact track you have ridden and cut it (even cutting out the bits like riding from the ferry / car park to the start and back); then open a new page and paste it onto the blank map; it will lose the extraneous points.

I took a track of the IOW Randonee on Sunday with a view to having the RTI ride as an acceptable year round perm for the Grimpeurs du Sud, the climbing figure is OK but I did a bit of extra flat distance which made it over for the altitude gain and thus not eligible for AAA, will try someone else's track.

I presume 'the software' checks for hilly sections within a longer ride as per the regs.  

no it doesn't; it just calculates the total climb, distance and time taken. You could probably do the "hilly section" bit by making it into 2 tracks though.

[Greenbank]

no it doesn't; it just calculates the total climb, distance and time taken. You could probably do the "hilly section" bit by making it into 2 tracks though.

Finding the hilliest section can be a non-trivial task. For example, there's a section of The Dean that teeters on the edge of claiming AAA points for a 100km section but finding it by trial and error is pretty tricky.

I've got a perl script to do it on a GPX file although it's very picky about the format of the GPX file.

I'm sure the software Danial mentions can be extended to add this at some point in the future. I can't see a reason for it not to other than time/resources/volunteers/etc. I'm happy to share the work I've done on my version.

The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.

[Martin]

The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.

is that from displaying the properties of the track on Mapsource and deleting the bits that were obviously not on the ride according to the time? that's what I did (plus the sitting around at the finish fiddling with it while waiting for my mate).

what I'm having problems doing is identifying a bit where I went into Bembridge twice along the same road as I did not think one of the controls was where it actually was, the list of points does not readily identify this bit nor does showing it on the map. If it was a permanent version of the ride the whole flat Bembridge control section (and a few others) could be ignored.

[Manotea]

I usually "tidy up" tracks using Mapsource by first concatonating track segments to create a consolisated track as described above then selecting track properties.
From here you can step through the track point by point to delete all of the points where you wander off route to visit shops, take wrong turns whatever to get a final clean track.
HTH

[Martin]

I usually "tidy up" tracks using Mapsource by first concatonating track segments to create a consolisated track as described above then selecting track properties.
From here you can step through the track point by point to delete all of the points where you wander off route to visit shops, take wrong turns whatever to get a final clean track.
HTH

YHM (with attachment  )

[Greenbank]

The before/after part is also pretty simply fixed if you specify a start time and finish time (from the GPS plot), you can then filter out any trackpoints before/after these times. What remains is the ride for validation.

is that from displaying the properties of the track on Mapsource and deleting the bits that were obviously

No, I edit the GPX files directly in a text editor after finding the appropriate time value from looking at the plot in GPS Trackmaker (Free edition).

I don't use Mapsource at all.

[frankly frankie]

Old eTrexes (the basic yellow one with no mapping) will lose the time information from each trackpoint if you saved the current track.
No idea if it's true with the later eTrexes (Legend/Vista/etc). Can't remember which one you got...

All Etrexes including the latest models do that.  Hence the advice to submit the 'Active Track' (and set it to record the max 10000 points - which is not the factory default).
Tracks automatically logged to data card are complete - but you have to set this up, it's not the factory default.
Touchscreen models save tracks properly - but can't do the daily logging thing, which is annoying.

[Weirdy Biker]

JFDI yields results.

Trial run on a ride after work suggests track logs are easy peasy to set up and extract 

Looking forward to the live AUK test on Saturday (despite the weather).

[Weirdy Biker]

A question.

Is there any reason why this initiative couldn't be used to turn Raids (such as Alpine, Pyreneen, Corisica etc) into AUK validated rides?  Or does that go against the spirit of the club?

[Phixie]

A question.

Is there any reason why this initiative couldn't be used to turn Raids (such as Alpine, Pyreneen, Corisica etc) into AUK validated rides?  Or does that go against the spirit of the club?

No insurance cover.

[DanialW]

AUK allows its members to ride a DIY anywhere. We wouldn't know if that ride was an overseas, non-AUK event, and I doubt anyone would mind. It might look perhaps a little indulgent to validate the same ride here and there, but I think that's a decision for the rider to make.

Someone else has asked about doing this recently, btw, but I'm uncertain anything came of it. Another rider asked about claiming a UK ride, but that fell through as it became apparent that the two rides were incompatible. Can't remember the exact details, tbh.

[Weirdy Biker]

Hmmm.  I might force the issue by submitting an entry in respect of the Raid Alpine to Martin and correspond with the AAA man.

The insurance point I don't understand as AUK has overseas permanents and DIY events.  Riders would, in any case, typically be covered by travel insurance.

The point about "is it in the spirit" is the interesting one.  The raid is recorded by FFCT but I (personally) see this as no different to the CTC audax rides that go towards the CTC awards.

Indeed, if this DIY with GPS were permitted, I would submit them to AUK as full-on perms.

[frankly frankie]

No-one's doubting the credentials of the Raid Alpine or anyone who rides it - but the simple fact is that the only validations AUK recognises are AUK's own and any BRM.  There are plenty of other events of equal or higher standard out there, but who is going to draw the lines, decide which events are or are not acceptable, and make sure everybody knows about them and so has the option to ride them?

[DanialW]

I think the question being asked is slightly different, FF. I think FY is asking if he can submit a DIY to us, for a route that is, say, a Raid Alpine event.

It's double-validation, but only one validation is with us. The other is with an event unrelated to audax. I see no problem with that, but personally I think actively seeking double validation comes across as a bit odd.

[Weirdy Biker]

No-one's doubting the credentials of the Raid Alpine or anyone who rides it - but the simple fact is that the only validations AUK recognises are AUK's own and any BRM.  There are plenty of other events of equal or higher standard out there, but who is going to draw the lines, decide which events are or are not acceptable, and make sure everybody knows about them and so has the option to ride them?

Agree entirely.  I guess what I'm doing is playing Devil's Advocate to see just how flexible the DIY system is.  I am not desparate to get the Raid "validated" by AUK but others might be.  As you suggest, there is a line somewhere but I'm unclear where it is.  I won't even go to "if a raid turns out to be ok, what about a sportive".  But someone will eventually ask that question.  Maybe the barrier will turn out to be the Regs that say riders must not receive assistance (will kabosh sportives but possibly not raids, particularly if self-supported).

NB: The Raid DIY would be to BP standard not BR.  The DIY with GPS opens up the possibility that these rides will count towards AAA.  That requires two things: would a Raid done as a DIY or a perm be validated by AUK and would the AAA man validate such rides for AAA points.  In broad terms, the Raids feel like the kind of routes that are in the spirit of AUK.  But whether having them validated by AUK alongside separate validation by a local cycling club of FFTC is in that same spirit is a bit more challenging.

[mattc]

I think the question being asked is slightly different, FF. I think FY is asking if he can submit a DIY to us, for a route that is, say, a Raid Alpine event.

It's double-validation, but only one validation is with us. The other is with an event unrelated to audax. I see no problem with that, but personally I think actively seeking double validation comes across as a bit odd.

Purely commenting as a rider (who has looked at some possible rides abroad), I think I see why FY would do this:

If I was points-chasing, or RRTY-chasing, or AAA-chasing, I might need every ride to count (or want them all to count). I might also fancy a "Classic" ride overseas e.g. the Raid-P. But I care not one hoot who validates the Raid-P, or if I will appear on some foreign list somewhere - I want my AUK points!!!

Does that makes sense?

[I'm avoiding the "spirit of audax" thing - I have issues about doing a big bunch ride* and claiming points. I also have doubts whether typical alpine passes are a comparable way of scoring AAA points, a system designed for UK terrain].
* No idea if the Raid events are like this!

[DanialW]

AAA works fine for alpine climbing.