Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Tandems => Topic started by: Wowbagger on 02 July, 2016, 10:51:23 am

Title: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 July, 2016, 10:51:23 am
Mrs. Wow and I had a try on one of these yesterday.We picked it up from Longstanton and rode it, mostly along the Cambridge Guided Busway, to my sister's house in St. Ives.

It was, of course, great fun. We were given the once-over with the controls - there is a small LCD panel with the on-off switch and displays telling you your speed, what gear you are in, how much battery capacity is left, that sort of useful stuff, and two flick-switches, one either side. The right hand operates the gear chance (all electronically powered) and the left hand changes the amount of power being used. There are 4 levels: off, eco, normal and high. You can ride the bike without the power on at all, but you can't change gear if you do. You can also put it in automatic mode, in which it selects gears for you based upon your speed, cadence rate and the amount of effort being put in. I didn't like this when I tried it.

The 7.5 miles to my sister's place took 44 minutes, according to the Garmin. That is considerably faster than our normal moving average on the tandem, and I had it in eco-mode for the entire trip. I really like the busway - an old railway line which has buses zooming along it at high speed, kept on the straight and narrow by sensors on the wheels. There is no barrier between the cyclepath/bridleway and the buses, and my sister told me a horror story about her grandson, profoundly deaf, who was only pulled out of the way of the bus at the last minute by his cousin. When the buses are in guided mode, the driver, it seems, sits back and does not much.

Because of tedious traffic problems in the morning, we arrived at Circe's workshop about 2 hours later than planned. That really cut down on time with my sister, which was very annoying. At 4pm I phoned the shop to see what time they closed, and was asked to be back there by 5. That meant getting on with it, as I had promised my sister and her partner a try. He did fine on the front, but she panicked and didn't get to try it, which was a shame. He rode it round the block and was very entertained by the whole idea.

We set off again at about 4.20 and this time I bunged it in "high" mode and we started pushing. We went almost the entire way in gear 8 and arrived back at 4.50! Mrs Wow and I averaged 15 miles an hour! We've never done that before.

Then came the tetris: could we fit it in the car? Off came the front wheel and the QR bars/seatposts. It just squeezed in diagonally. Could I fit my bike in? Provided I removed both wheels, the bars and the seatpost - not ideal. There was still somewhere let for our granddaughter to sit. We would still have to squeeze a tent in, but that would not be beyond us, I am sure! So, we are going to buy one. It's much lighter and more manageable than our wonderful Thorn tandem, and we can go faster.

One other very nice feature: the Shimano Step motor is on the pilot's bottom bracket. It is a feature of this that the pilot can freewheel whilst the stoker is pedalling. This, of course, leads to the cranks being "out of sync", but more importantly, allows her to say "He's not pedalling at the front!"
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: peliroja on 02 July, 2016, 01:18:10 pm
Very exciting! Did you take any pics?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 02 July, 2016, 01:35:59 pm
Sounds promising, but you tested an electric assist bike in a place without any hills...

I expect the automatic mode makes incorrect assumptions about your preferred cadence.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Polar Bear on 02 July, 2016, 01:46:41 pm
Have you considered getting an electric kit for the Thorn?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 02 July, 2016, 01:54:31 pm
Have you considered getting an electric kit for the Thorn?

Which would also function as an electric kit for the solos, if you're cunning.

Not much good for hauling grandchildren, thobut.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 July, 2016, 02:23:37 pm
Have you considered getting an electric kit for the Thorn?

Yes. Thorn had a recommended supplier, but my initial investigations indicated that it would require the forks to be cold set to accept a wider hub. Front wheel assist is the only possible solution on the Thorn. Rear wheel and we would lose our wonderful Rohloff (whose wonderfulness becomes less necessary with more power) and because of eccentric bottom brackets, we couldn't fit them there.

If we can get away with the fork not being spread, then I would not be averse to it, and as Kim says, it would be trivial transferring the front wheel from one bike to another.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 July, 2016, 02:24:58 pm
Very exciting! Did you take any pics?

I thought I had taken a couple of photos with my bro-in-law in the driving seat, but they are not on my phone. Must have buggered it up (again!).
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 04 July, 2016, 12:48:37 pm
Brilliant! I'm very jealous, I really fancy electric assist for mine - you can retro fit a front wheel motor. I hope you have lots of fun on it! Are you getting it separable?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: DrMekon on 04 July, 2016, 01:04:08 pm
Have you considered getting an electric kit for the Thorn?

Yes. Thorn had a recommended supplier, but my initial investigations indicated that it would require the forks to be cold set to accept a wider hub. Front wheel assist is the only possible solution on the Thorn. Rear wheel and we would lose our wonderful Rohloff (whose wonderfulness becomes less necessary with more power) and because of eccentric bottom brackets, we couldn't fit them there.

If we can get away with the fork not being spread, then I would not be averse to it, and as Kim says, it would be trivial transferring the front wheel from one bike to another.

Have you looked at the stoke monkey? Getting it to fit anything other than a longtail may require having some plates made. I'm sure that the electric bike company in cambridge (who have made some very naughty electric bikes in the past) could help.

Video of the Stoke Monkey here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN3SXISavFw

Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 04 July, 2016, 02:43:55 pm
Brilliant! I'm very jealous, I really fancy electric assist for mine - you can retro fit a front wheel motor. I hope you have lots of fun on it! Are you getting it separable?
Further investigations this morning indicated that we were riding a prototype and the frames for production are still in Taiwan or somewhere. Lead-in time for delivery is therefore unknown but not short. I have booked the prototype again for the Wing weekend.

So far as I understand, the frame is not separable, hence the critical nature of us being able to fit it in the car. I don't know what form of attachment is fitted to the separable frames, but it seems to be considerably less robust than S & S couplings, which I use quite happily on our Thorn tandem.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 04 July, 2016, 04:47:00 pm
It looks as though delivery will be some time in September.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: The French Tandem on 05 July, 2016, 05:52:58 am
Have you looked at the stoke monkey? Getting it to fit anything other than a longtail may require having some plates made. I'm sure that the electric bike company in cambridge (who have made some very naughty electric bikes in the past) could help.

Video of the Stoke Monkey here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN3SXISavFw

Before I watched the video, I was expecting a sort of robot gorilla sitting on the stoker's saddle. Disappointing!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 06 July, 2016, 05:09:11 pm
Brilliant! I'm very jealous, I really fancy electric assist for mine - you can retro fit a front wheel motor. I hope you have lots of fun on it! Are you getting it separable?
Further investigations this morning indicated that we were riding a prototype and the frames for production are still in Taiwan or somewhere. Lead-in time for delivery is therefore unknown but not short. I have booked the prototype again for the Wing weekend.

So far as I understand, the frame is not separable, hence the critical nature of us being able to fit it in the car. I don't know what form of attachment is fitted to the separable frames, but it seems to be considerably less robust than S & S couplings, which I use quite happily on our Thorn tandem.

I have had contact from Richard, of Cyclocentric (the firm that sells/builds/imports Circe etc.) and he wondered how I reached the view that the couplings on their tandem were less robust than S & S. It seems that I misunderstood his comment. From a further call, I understand that it's not the couplings that are the weak point. It could be merely that the extra frame flex on a tandem of these dimensions will be very great. Even Thorn's "Double Marathon" frame, which is a pretty rubust bit of kit, has a lot of flex in it when about 35 stones of pilot/stoker are giving it large.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wobbly John on 06 July, 2016, 07:59:16 pm
Have you considered getting an electric kit for the Thorn?

Yes. Thorn had a recommended supplier, but my initial investigations indicated that it would require the forks to be cold set to accept a wider hub. Front wheel assist is the only possible solution on the Thorn. Rear wheel and we would lose our wonderful Rohloff (whose wonderfulness becomes less necessary with more power) and because of eccentric bottom brackets, we couldn't fit them there.

If we can get away with the fork not being spread, then I would not be averse to it, and as Kim says, it would be trivial transferring the front wheel from one bike to another.

Why not get a new wider fork built so you can swap it back to manual without getting the fork un-spread squashed back?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 15 September, 2016, 07:59:23 pm
Things are Happening on this front. It looks as though we will be getting this bike by the end of the month. I parted with the deposit today.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 29 September, 2016, 10:35:29 am
Delays, delays.

A phone call today indicated that the bike is built with the exception of the hydraulic front brake, for which parts are awaited and expected (hoped for?) by the end of this week.

A realistic collection date of next week, I think.

It is a very healthy state of affairs that a new electric tandem is a considerably more toothsome prospect than a new electric car...
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Adam on 29 September, 2016, 06:41:32 pm
Exciting stuff!

My Helios has a conversion kit fitted as replacement front wheel, but the STEPS version looks very good.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: orienteer on 29 September, 2016, 07:53:49 pm
Looking forward to an e-tandem ride!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 29 September, 2016, 08:32:27 pm
Exciting stuff!

My Helios has a conversion kit fitted as replacement front wheel, but the STEPS version looks very good.
Which kit do you have?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 04 October, 2016, 07:02:47 pm
Still waiting. It seems that Circe are awaiting the front brake assembly or some such (hydraulic discs). I was hoping to get the bike by the end of this week, but that's now looking doubtful.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 October, 2016, 12:40:53 pm
And it will be ready on on Friday! Mrs. Wow and I will go to collect, have lunch with sis in St. Ives and then find a 7kw charger for the car before we go for a potter round Cambridge.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Adam on 05 October, 2016, 10:28:36 pm
Exciting stuff!

My Helios has a conversion kit fitted as replacement front wheel, but the STEPS version looks very good.
Which kit do you have?

About 18 months ago I bought a Sparticle kit from Electric Bike Sales - https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/sparticle-250-watt-electric%20bike%20-conversion-kit-v8

It's a very tight fit on the front forks, so you need a bit of brute force to replace the wheel if you get a puncture (only 1 so far).  It's only got a 260 Ah battery, but I run it with a thumb throttle (legal back then) and reckon I can do around 20 miles loaded up with shopping etc, with no pedalling at all.  Unloaded, it does go faster than 15mph...........
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 07 October, 2016, 03:47:44 pm
Well, we have it! Quite a struggle to get in the car, but it fits. We have had only a short ride so far. Will play with it properly tomorrow.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 07 October, 2016, 10:02:58 pm
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14492438_1688523904800145_649027282873540367_n.jpg?oh=eb67568109926896c7ac8787ae977ed2&oe=58ACF8B7)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14516550_1688523954800140_3040107256731335226_n.jpg?oh=a43614976b7b6d08105df441eb42f52b&oe=58622658)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/14517395_1688523981466804_2265760747101461174_n.jpg?oh=6ae98921c776a56104f2ba3fd4f46bfb&oe=58AA0764)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14567992_1688523941466808_6703047455306533036_n.jpg?oh=32f6ffe6ff34955994075fbaca9a213d&oe=58671AC9)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14590376_1688524024800133_462200852746739810_n.jpg?oh=0fea23f812a55a774b77383f7f9eef4a&oe=586C5906)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14523207_1688524074800128_982694950455157454_n.jpg?oh=c8c407927fbfa7b67e1d7f8a3afcf036&oe=58AC0E8C)
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: sg37409 on 08 October, 2016, 09:25:26 am
Exciting !.  Looking forward to the ride reports
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: zigzag on 08 October, 2016, 03:20:44 pm
looks fun (and there is a provisional space for the second backup battery on the bottom tube)!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 October, 2016, 07:56:31 pm
We have now done more than 50 miles on this tandem, so some first impressions:-

It does what it is supposed to! Jan and I averaged over 10 mph on Sunday's ride in the very hilly North Downs - we wouldn't have managed 7mph on our old tandem. Today I rode it as a solo machine and rode 13.9 miles at more than 12 mph average. I ascended Brock Hill (renowned amongst WARTIERs as the git of a climb out of Wickford) and a reasonably fit looking roadie passed me near the bottom. I bunged it in High Assist mode and cranked it up. I didn't catch up with him, but I was gaining on him when he got to the top.

I am considering fitting lights. There is a wiring set allowing 6v lights to be powered from the main battery, but given that there is a Brompton luggage block at the front, finding somewhere suitable for the front light is going to be problematic. I'm not keen to put a permanent light on the handlebars, nor on the right fork blade. I might get some sort of fairly high-powered battery effort, but I have asked Richard of Cyclecentric for more advice. It is possible to get really good DC lights for it, and I'm thinking about Supernova, but until I have identified somewhere suitable to mount them I shall wait. Schmidt also do a DC Edelux II, without a switch. The light switch is on the control unit. Both the Supernova and the Edelux are Expensive.

There is a place for a bottle cage above the top tube, but it is exactly where I kick it when I mount the bike, so I have taken it off again. The pilot's and stoker's pedals are not directly linked in that the pilot can stop pedalling and the stoker can carry on. This has the effect of getting the pedals out of synch with one another and today I gave one of the rear pedals a serious grounding when I was going round a corner. I think we might have to link them together with bungees.*

Having said all that, I regard the above purely as teething problems which I will resolve one way or another. It's a lovely bike and we are looking forward to lots of good miles on it.

Edit: there is a trivially simple solution to the pedal strike problem. We have QR pedals! Next time I ride it as a solo, I shall just take the stoker's pedals off.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 12 October, 2016, 08:04:26 pm
There is a wiring set allowing 6v lights to be powered from the main battery, but given that there is a Brompton luggage block at the front, finding somewhere suitable for the front light is going to be problematic.

I know that CrinklyLion and Butterfly have Cyos on handlebar mounts, but is there definitely not room for one under the Brompton block, perhaps using Brompton's custom fork crown bracket?  It works on a Brompton, and there isn't an awful lot of space there:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/brompton/IMG_4304.sized.jpg)
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 October, 2016, 08:22:51 pm
The distance between the mudguard bolt's centre is only 32mm below the body of the block, compared to about 7cm on my Brompton. The block's bag release trigger is almost on the level with it. There is room for a long bolt with spacer to extend beyond the block, but again that's not ideal as it might easily get bent.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 12 October, 2016, 08:35:53 pm
The distance between the mudguard bolt's centre is only 32mm below the body of the block, compared to about 7cm on my Brompton. The block's bag release trigger is almost on the level with it. There is room for a long bolt with spacer to extend beyond the block, but again that's not ideal as it might easily get bent.

Sounds like a non-starter then.  It wasn't obvious from your photos.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 October, 2016, 08:53:38 pm
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14713598_1691126724539863_230257103286449894_n.jpg?oh=b6500824a3e540ff788d93dab356e459&oe=589895D5)

Not a great photo, because I was working in a dark garage, but I think you can see how close the block is to the bolt.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 October, 2016, 11:16:33 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDvbfEFfo1c
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 23 October, 2016, 11:41:11 pm
Ah, a tremendous burst of speed   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: jiberjaber on 24 October, 2016, 12:33:52 am
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14713598_1691126724539863_230257103286449894_n.jpg?oh=b6500824a3e540ff788d93dab356e459&oe=589895D5)

Not a great photo, because I was working in a dark garage, but I think you can see how close the block is to the bolt.

I don't know how the luggage attaches, but can't you mount something (an upturned light mount perhaps?) off that lug that looks like its there for the job?

ETA: Also, http://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompton-battery-lighting/2328-mounting-bracket-for-brompton-cateye-front-light.html

ETAF: I see the bit I was on about is the release leaver for the bracket, so scrap that idea!

Perhaps this fella from Schmidt (mounted upside down?)

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.php

(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/sch75504.jpg)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting-spares/schmidt-stainless-steel-headlamp-bracket-for-mounting-schmidt-e6-headlamp-on-a-brompton/
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Vince on 24 October, 2016, 09:47:02 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDvbfEFfo1c

Lovely video, especially the first drone shot.

The independent cranks do look odd, how does that work?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 24 October, 2016, 01:40:31 pm
I don't know how the luggage attaches, but can't you mount something (an upturned light mount perhaps?) off that lug that looks like its there for the job?

ETAF: I see the bit I was on about is the release leaver for the bracket, so scrap that idea!

Yeah, you need that hole to attach a cable tie / shoelace looped around the back of the head tube to simplify releasing the luggage.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: cycleman on 24 October, 2016, 07:28:24 pm
Just tow a trailer   :)
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 28 October, 2016, 09:49:49 am
Just tow a trailer   :)

What, to put the front light on?  :P
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: cycleman on 28 October, 2016, 10:31:57 pm
well just think you could have 2 front lights and 2 rear lights on a trailier  ;D . 9 note to self , read thread properly before replying  ::-) :-[
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 February, 2018, 08:55:08 am
And now an "Oh bugger!" moment.

Jan and I are setting off for Yorkshire this morning to spend a few days doing stuff. We were going to take the Circe but we can't find its charging gubbins anywhere. I have looked back through the rides I have recorded and the last time we seem to have used the tandem was in late August in Wales. We seem to be missing a whole Brompton bag, the tandem's charger and its front light/charger. I suspect that they are all together somewhere.

I have emailed the place we stayed at (almost 6 months ago!) to find out if we left it behind, but I would have thought they would have been in touch if we had.

So we are taking solo machines to Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 11 February, 2018, 04:41:16 pm
Oh no! Hope it all turns up!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: clarion on 13 February, 2018, 01:34:23 pm
Half a STEP closer to harnessing wigglies to pull out tandem :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: sg37409 on 13 February, 2018, 02:45:58 pm
And now an "Oh bugger!" moment.
... We seem to be missing a whole Brompton bag, the tandem's charger and its front light/charger.
... So we are taking solo machines to Yorkshire.

Nad luck Wow.  This is the kind of thing I do.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 16 February, 2018, 10:27:49 am
I've made an appointment to take my circe in to have frame transplant surgery over the next couple of weeks. Hopefully, I should have the STEPS system by Easter (minus the electronic gears) :thumbsup:

*bounce, bounce, bounce*
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Goldcrank on 16 February, 2018, 12:00:22 pm
What happened to the frame?
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Kim on 16 February, 2018, 12:34:50 pm
STEPS requires a specific mounting where the bottom bracket shell would normally go.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 16 February, 2018, 01:12:36 pm
What happened to the frame?
The frame is fine. They are doing me a part exchange on a STEPS specific frame. I am very, very, very excited!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 17 February, 2018, 07:04:29 pm
Matilda the Helios is now in Longstanton for her surgery.  :D
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 13 March, 2018, 09:47:16 am
She's back! (https://flic.kr/p/23Hbhr6)
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 13 March, 2018, 10:31:44 am
Towing a trailer full of toy trucks!  :thumbsup: And... I presume the tinsel is a permanent fixture or are you just very, very late with Christmas?!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 13 March, 2018, 10:36:20 am
Towing a trailer full of toy trucks!  :thumbsup: And... I presume the tinsel is a permanent fixture or are you just very, very late with Christmas?!

The tinsel was transplanted from the old frame. It usually lasts until about June, when I start wearing shorts and it tickles my knees. So not quite permanent, but about 8 months a year or so.
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Wowbagger on 13 March, 2018, 06:50:33 pm
Delighted to hear about your souped-up-go-faster Helios!

In other news, we have tracked the Bromoton bag down to my daughter's place and the charger was hiding in plain sight in another shopping bag, where it has been since August.

Jan and I are planning an early spring potter tomorrow to see how it goes!
Title: Re: Circe Helios Electric Assist
Post by: Butterfly on 14 March, 2018, 12:03:13 pm
Delighted to hear about your souped-up-go-faster Helios!

In other news, we have tracked the Bromoton bag down to my daughter's place and the charger was hiding in plain sight in another shopping bag, where it has been since August.

Jan and I are planning an early spring potter tomorrow to see how it goes!

That's a relief!  :D