I'm guessing it would be extremely difficult to get over 10,000m climbing over 600km in the UK.
Not impossible though, if pro-rating the Maniac's 17AAA by 60% is a yardstick. And Colin Bezant's Cambrian 6A almost qualifies with 9.5AAA.
Not sure it would be much fun in the UK though. On the continent, probably fantastic.
Hmmm. If I rerouted the K&SW over Bodmin, Dartmoor and Exmoor.
The Pendle 600 is listed in the calendar at 10,150
Well done Marcus for being the only AUKAudaciousstupid enough to get on these lists
ACP has now changed the time limit to 60 hours, which gives flatlanders a good chance of getting round one of these.That seems overly generous - assuming it's meant to be "comparable" (whatever that means!) with a 40hr flat/rolling 600km.
There is nothing stopping you from completing a SR600 in under 50 hours.
The French measure climbing quite differently to Brits, who tote up every single speedbump. I imagine that minimising unsupported sleep-deprived riding in mountainous terrain in the dark might have something to do with it.Hmmm, good points.
60 hours for all of the SR600s at randonneur standard.
HK and I have finally decided that next year will be 'der Tag' for us and the SR600 (how many years has it taken?).
I am a big bloke and not a natural climber, so to maximise enjoyment, it'll help if:
- the descents allow real time gains, rather than riding the brakes
- the climbs are long and steady, rather than short and steep
- conditions tend to be dry and not too hot sometime between June and September
- there are some stunning views
https://randonneuredintorni.wordpress.com/super-randonnee-delle-dolomiti/ was suggested on another thread.
The new Welsh SR600 is out. That many Welsh climbs in one hit doesn't appeal to us.
Amongst the high mountains, HK thinks that the Alps might be best for us, as the Dolomites tend to be wet and the Pyrenees steeper, while there is a lot of food/ accommodation at frequent intervals in the Alps.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
So, assuming I can do 200 km in 12 hours, which I believe I can on that terrain... it's basically 3 days with the luxury of being able to check in a B&B at a non embarrassing time and even have breakfast!
It all sounds very civilised... the Welsh C6 appears to pass through Llanwurst at Km 400... perfect!
Does it work like other perms, in that you can start at any control point en route? Looking at the Welsh one, Aberystwyth seems a good start point... 200 km to Llanberis (bunk beds at Pete's Ets) and another 200 to Brecon (plenty of accomodation, I would assume). Plus the benefit of finishing in a town and being able to have a decent meal + drinks ;D.
Also, Aberystwyth has a station, should things go pear shaped, whereas Knighton doesn't
Also, Aberystwyth has a station, should things go pear shaped, whereas Knighton doesn't
Does it work like other perms, in that you can start at any control point en route? Looking at the Welsh one, Aberystwyth seems a good start point... 200 km to Llanberis (bunk beds at Pete's Ets) and another 200 to Brecon (plenty of accomodation, I would assume). Plus the benefit of finishing in a town and being able to have a decent meal + drinks ;D.
Also, Aberystwyth has a station, should things go pear shaped, whereas Knighton doesn't
Good question as these will be sent off for validation by ACP
I have found the answer
"Those who have registered as Randonneurs must start from the official starting point. As Tourists, they can choose any other starting point on the cue sheet."
from page http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/422%20-%20Rules%20Super%20Randonn%C3%A9e.html
Is that Knighton on the Anglo-Welsh border? Sort of mid-Walesish? The one with a railway station on the Central Wales line?
That one has 4 trains a day each way to/from Shrewsbury or Swansea, with 2 on Sundays. Granted it's not the 6 or more trains per hour you get in that there London, but it's still 4 more than none! ;)
Just bumping this thread in the light of 2 things:What an excellent suggestion,@mattc!
- Will announcing hisnear BristolTintern-to-Snowdonia SR600 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=113968.0)
. . . makes sense (to me!) to have 1 master thread so that e.g. Will's thread doesn't get overwhelmed by me banging on about how great Spain is :P
Have just discovered this thread and so answering a few references to the 6C SR. But firstly congrats to Will for setting this up - it takes a lot of work to get everything validated. I'm also impressed with the lack of overlap between the two routes as its actually hard to get a sensible route with that amount of climbing
The 6C does have a AUK Permanent version. So far it there have been 2 or 3 entries for this - but I'm not sure that anyone has actually attempted it seriously. There are a few riders out there who could manage 10K+ of ascent in Welsh lanes and get some sleep, but only a few. I rode the 4C, on which the 6C is based not long after waltzing around the Rough Diamond 300 at the head of the field. I was probably in the best nick I've ever been. Extrapolating my time on the 4C (in which I had 3 15 minute catnaps) to the 6C, I would have had about 2 - 3 hours spare for a sleep but would have probably been too worried about missing the time limit to complete it. That's why the SR approach, with 60 hours makes sense.
There have been 5 finishes of the 6C as a super-randonnee, most of them have made near full use of the 60 hour limit, and most have struggled to make their planned overnight stops. If you think of 3 hilly AAA 200s back to back, if you take 12 hours for the first, you will take much longer for the third...
But the completion rate is much higher than the 400 and 600 Cambrian Permanents - precisely because there is the chance to have a couple of sleep stops. And the feedback is that it is a highly rewarding challenge that it is uniquely different from anything else that Audax has to offer.
In June I did not complete CET's SR600 - ran out of time on Day3 (or left too little time to complete).Thd other option given the 2nd night YH was convenient is to start later on day 1 giving a later finish time on day 3 and so more time to cover the 200km. I still think it is worth front loading the ride so dailh distance decreaes as fatigue increases. But that is dependant on suitable options. Arriving late on day 1 is less important than arriving late on day 3
Cambrian 6C/SR600 route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29823510?beta=false
I attempted this 10-12 Jun. Forecast a week out looked OK. One day out it looked no fun. Stayed in Kington YH and started from Knighton at 0750. On Day 1 I actually had just the odd shower wind was steady 10-12kn and tail/head/tail combo. Fast to Brecon (60k). First food in Llanwrtyd Wells (95k) followed by hardest climb of the day (no foot down)(but much easier than the morrow's) Devil's Staircase on the mountain road to Tregaron (125k, more food there). East from Aberystwyth (153k) on the A44 for 100 minutes was more climbing than I expected. Ice cream at a shop. Started 0750 and finished 2036.
219km + 4021m (Garmin)
Moving Time = 10:56
Elapsed Time 12:46
17.2 kph ave
20.1 kph moving
Overnight 15km NW of Llanidloes in bunkhouse just west of Staylittle (210k) - cooked dinner provided. In retrospect: too comfy and hospitable hosts, but supper and company, shower and bed were great.
Pissing down overnight and in the morning, with fresh cool northerly, deterring an early start. Set off north at 7am. Climbed Bwlch-y-Groes (no foot down) and then fast, cold descent to Bala (267k). 50 mins in cafe warming up, in particular, hands (a week short of mid-summer!). Still raining. Left both (filled) bottles on table outside cafe. Pressed on till mid-afternoon and had a meal in an Abergele pub (317k) - rain had stopped once north of Llansannan. Climb back out was easier than expected and soon down into Llanwrst (bought food/pizzas to cook) and after climb up and down to Swallow Falls/A5 dumped shopping at YH (quick tea at YH) and pressed on to Llanberis and back (45km there and back) in lovely evening sun. Benefitted from a tailwind back up to Pen-y-pas.
189km + circa 3000m in 13 hours ish with a fair bit stopped - roughly similar moving and average speeds to Day 1. Pleased with a good day's riding. Swallow Falls YH (394k) was excellent.
Expected (forecast) northerly to continue and therefore tail wind for Day 3 - regrettably not realised. Set off later than I ought at 6am from Swallow Falls and took 140 mins for the 37km to Denbigh (427km) and realised/decided that my speed made good (<14kph) was not going to get me to the finish in time (181km to Knighton in 11 hours, by 8pm) given the relentless hills, up and down. Breakfast in ?Morrisons? cafe just below right hand turn to Denbigh control. So, to get back to Knighton, left out Mold and after Llangollen, routed east of the hills, lower down via Oswestry, Welshpool, Montgomery and Bishop's Castle: 175km on Day 3 (as opposed to 217km and much more climb in general drizzle, and wet descents on narrow roads). Glad I made the decision as, from the 'no rain' Severn plain B roads, I could see the hills which the route traversed covered in low cloud.
My key lessons identified are:
1) Given pre-arranged accommodation, accept/plan for a late arrival Day 1 eg 10pm+.
2) Ration overnight stopped time and prioritise sleeping.
3) Don't underestimate the last day which has harder climbing than Day 1, harder descents (as far as I can see) so less beneficial to average speed, and for my plan/schedule, the longest day. One's average speed over the previous 2 days will give one a(n upper limit) guide as to how long one needs to allow (and therefore a definite start 'no later than' time).
4) Try to hit better weather (and MTFU if actual worse than forecast).
I'd ridden 35 hours with 5 + hours sleep in a bed on the Bryan Chapman 3 weeks earlier, and that's got 7000m of climb.
When I give this another go (in 2020), I'll start earlier on Day 2, go on to Denbigh in the evening of Day2 and hopefully have better weather.
@CET - thank you for the organisation. I have control photos for the first 400k!
You're quite right about the last bit and I agree the 'front-loading' although that rather depends if you're a full value rider and how much you value decent sleep. In June I was also driven by wishing to finish D3/611k at Knighton in the 60 hours and then getting back to Kington YH before the doors closed - and my plan had loaded more than 215k onto D3. Though the Swallow Falls YH is great and almost right on route (349k and 394k) and you can check in and then do the Llanberis loop, I think it's unwise to leave more than 180k to D3. So Denbigh will be my planned D2 overnight next time, and I'll be prepared to arrive late/in the dark. @psyclist had a plan to ride this last year, but postponed to this year (he says).Thd other option given the 2nd night YH was convenient is to start later on day 1 giving a later finish time on day 3 and so more time to cover the 200km. I still think it is worth front loading the ride so dailh distance decreaes as fatigue increases. But that is dependant on suitable options. Arriving late on day 1 is less important than arriving late on day 3
Stayed in Kington YH and started from Knighton at 0750. . . . and finished 2036.
219km + 4021m (Garmin)
Moving Time = 10:56
Elapsed Time 12:46
17.2 kph ave
20.1 kph moving
Overnight 15km NW of Llanidloes in bunkhouse just west of Staylittle (210k) - cooked dinner provided. In retrospect: too comfy and hospitable hosts, but supper and company, shower and bed were great.
When I give this another go (in 2020), I'll start earlier on Day 2, go on to Denbigh in the evening of Day2 . . .
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49431112768_e3cf03deb4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ij4nEY)
(hey, wait til bunbury see this one!)
The image is all of the photo controls you'll need to gather along the route - it's the same deal as the other Super Randonnée 600s (http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/422.html).
I always fancied one of these, but it felt a bit indulgent to travel so far when there are plenty of hillsdownup the road. So here it is, starting and finishing in Hexham, which has decent, bike-friendly train services from the East Coast at Newcastle, or from the West Coast at Carlisle, and access to plenty of hills.
Randonneur option (60 hours): https://www.audax.uk/event-details?eventId=8557
Tourist option (72 hours): https://www.audax.uk/event-details?eventId=8558
And the route for both is here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30128955
It's fair to say it owes a lot to some other local organisers - Joe Applegarth's laney routes around the North Pennines, some of Dave Atkinson's Dales rides (I fell in love with Hartlington Raikes on his 200 - not the climb, it's an evil sod, but what a name) Chris Crossland's rides around the South Pennines and Dales, and not to forget the late, much-missed Don Black's rides. I think I first rode the Wycoller-Hebden Bridge road on one of Don's perms. Everything else, you can blame on me.
21 controls max!! which include the start & finish; this has been updated, it was 18 when I formulated mine. Start & finish can be independent of each other. Out and back discouraged but allowed. 619km max. 10,000m on openrunner minimum - this behaves differently to RWGPS, it isn't just a multiplier, I think OR under-reads small variances but I could be wrong.
Full details in part 2: http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/427%20-%20Super%20Randonn%C3%A9e%20International.html (http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/427%20-%20Super%20Randonn%C3%A9e%20International.html)
Copying CET's reply onto this 'general' SR600 thread.My advice, plan in Google Maps Walking (RWGPS). Aim for 11,000m or close to. Export GPX. Upload to OpenRunner.This ^^^. Works well. Interesting the different effects on RwGPS climb and OR climb assessments on different types of terrain (eg the glens and passes of Scotland, the scenery of mid and north Wales, and the scenic moors and myriad of small valleys in the West Country). Others on here will know the detailed reasons for that.
In Wales Cambrian 6C - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29823510
608.7 kilometers · +10,766 m (RwGPS)
609.9 km, 10289 m in OR
I've also done a detailed contour count - which comes out at 11,200 to 11,300m ascent. Feedback from riders is that GPS devices on the actual event record between 11,500 and 12,000m. I do warn people that OR and contour count figures are usually 10 - 15% lower than what a Garmin will actually record in the Uk.