Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: Gattopardo on 03 May, 2018, 03:42:24 pm
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I'm sure there was but can't find it.
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The Ayoue ones seem to be popular locally. Get whatever floats your boat with reflow heater if you need it or a standard temp controlled one without.
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My Aoyue 968A+ is still going strong. Main complaint is that the pump is irritatingly loud and that the membrane switches that control the reflow temperature are starting to look tatty (with, presumably, a view to failing in an annoying membrane-switchy way at some point in future).
I've also got a TS-100 DC powered[1] iron, for more portable use. I've bodged up an adaptor (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1241.msg2195676#msg2195676) to power it from Makita power tool batteries, which makes it a much more controllable alternative to gas, and am using an alternative firmware (https://github.com/Ralim/ts100) which gives a plethora of lovely menu options. I wouldn't recommend it as a main iron for serious use - it doesn't sit in soldering iron stands properly, the tips are quite expensive and the ergonomics a bit compromised[2] - but it's not a bad option for a beginner (or space-constrained PSO).
And an Aldi gas thing, which replaced my ancient Craplin gas thing, and in light of the above is now mostly relegated to mobile heatshrink duty.
I also note that https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/ are having a bank holiday sale.
Previous thread that's worth re-visiting: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=74580.0
[1] It's optimised for a 19V PSU, and uses the same DC plug as Toshiba do on their laptops.
[2] A nice silicone cable with a lightweight DC plug is a significant improvement over a typical laptop PSU's cable, especially if there's a ferrite weighing it down.
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Thank you, as much as I would like to have a solder station at the mo just need a decent iron as the aldi/lidl special isn't that great and my antex one will never be seen again.
Need something to replace the power jack on a laptop...well one at least.
Was thinking this https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-469-soldering-station-60-watt.html
As much as I would like one with hot air as I have a few chips to try and reflow not using the oven but am skint.
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I got this one a few years ago as I couldn't justify a full rework solder station like the one Kim has:
https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-937-soldering-station.html
Its been so much better than anything I ever had before. Only £50 as well.
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I've got this one and find it fine for my purposes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003DH5N2M?ref_=pe_780071_42242491
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Was thinking this https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-469-soldering-station-60-watt.html
Gotcha with that one is that it's not thermostatically controlled. If you're skint, fine, but for electronics the 937 is probably a better choice, even though it's a lower power rating.
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Was thinking this https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-469-soldering-station-60-watt.html
Gotcha with that one is that it's not thermostatically controlled. If you're skint, fine, but for electronics the 937 is probably a better choice, even though it's a lower power rating.
Ah thought the dial thing was a thermostatic control.
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Was thinking this https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-469-soldering-station-60-watt.html
Gotcha with that one is that it's not thermostatically controlled. If you're skint, fine, but for electronics the 937 is probably a better choice, even though it's a lower power rating.
Ah thought the dial thing was a thermostatic control.
Nah, it'll be the equivalent of a light dimmer; no feedback mechanism. It'll vary the amount of power delivered to the iron, but it won't increase the power to maintain a constant temperature as you solder with it.
My previous iron had such an arrangement. It's certainly an improvement over an unregulated mains-powered iron, but no substitute for true thermostatic control if you're moving between components of different sizes.
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Was thinking this https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-469-soldering-station-60-watt.html
Gotcha with that one is that it's not thermostatically controlled. If you're skint, fine, but for electronics the 937 is probably a better choice, even though it's a lower power rating.
Ah thought the dial thing was a thermostatic control.
Nah, it'll be the equivalent of a light dimmer; no feedback mechanism. It'll vary the amount of power delivered to the iron, but it won't increase the power to maintain a constant temperature as you solder with it.
Now I am clueless about soldering irons, as in the past I have gone for the antex or weller irons.
So isn't that dial a bit pointless? Or am I missing something?
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Set a thermostatic iron to, say, 300C and it'll turn the power on until the tip reaches 300, turn it off, wait for the temperature to drop a couple of degrees, turn it back on, heat it back up to 300, etc. Bring that tip into contact with something (ie. the joint you want to solder) and heat will flow away from the tip more rapidly. The thermostat will increase the power accordingly, to maintain 300C. All is well (until the heat-sinking capabilities of what you're soldering exceed the power rating of the iron, anyway).
With a cheapo temperature controlled iron, you set the knob to something, the duty cycle of the power supply to the iron is altered accordingly, and the tip heats up until it's in thermal equilibrium with the surrounding air. Bring it into contact with the joint and the tip cools down, but the electronics knows nothing about that, it just keeps supplying the same amount of power. Fine, so you find a setting that works for soldering your through-hole resistors, or whatever. All is well. Then you come to solder the power jack, which is a bigger component with more metal in the legs. It sinks more heat, the tip cools more than it did with the resistors and your solder joints are crap. You twiddle the knob a bit and give it a few seconds to warm up. The jack solders fine. Then you come to solder some fiddly little SMD transistor and end up lifting the pads because you've left the power too high and the tip's now too hot.
Ie. it's usable, but it requires more judgement and knob-twiddling to get consistent results that would happen automatically with a thermostatic iron. How much this stuff matters depends on what you're soldering. Small SMD electronics and lead-free solder are the things that will really make you appreciate thermostatic control. If you're just putting connectors on cables, say, it's much less important.
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Thank you.
What do we think of this?
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-stations/1611962/
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Looks decent enough, and you can get tips for it.
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So how about this weller:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-irons/7782620/ or the smaller 25w https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-irons/7782605/
Can get them for £13 so....what do you think?
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So how about this weller:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-irons/7782620/ or the smaller 25w https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-irons/7782605/
Can get them for £13 so....what do you think?
Neither are temperature controlled at all. Get a proper thermostatic one as Kim says. its so much easier to use and get good results with. You will save the extra cost by not buggering up whatever you are trying to solder.
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Then you come to solder the power jack, which is a bigger component with more metal in the legs. It sinks more heat, the tip cools more than it did with the resistors and your solder joints are crap. You twiddle the knob a bit and give it a few seconds to warm up. The jack solders fine. Then you come to solder some fiddly little SMD transistor and end up lifting the pads because you've left the power too high and the tip's now too hot.
IME Since thermostatically controlled irons measure the temperature some distance from the tip, in order to solder larger items you have to turn them up anyway, to compensate for the heat draining out before the thermostat notices. They’re still *better*, but they don’t solve the problem 100%.
I have the ubiquitous Chinese “936D”. It works fine and tips are cheap.
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I use one of these and not had a single issue with it. Mostly use it for cables.
http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-10115-uk/soldering-station-digital-esd/dp/SD01738
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IME Since thermostatically controlled irons measure the temperature some distance from the tip, in order to solder larger items you have to turn them up anyway, to compensate for the heat draining out before the thermostat notices. They’re still *better*, but they don’t solve the problem 100%.
The thermal mass of the tip will affect how much compensation will be required, too. Some irons are designed to have more thermal mass than others.
There's a further difference between the type where the tip is literally just that, a bit of metal that slots over the ceramic heater/temperature sensor assembly, and the type where the tip contains the heater and sensor, and the attachment to the iron includes an electrical connection. The latter seem to have *much* more responsive thermostatic control, presumably because there's better contact between the parts.
But yes, part of the skill of soldering is knowing what temperature you need for *this* iron on *this* joint. Good kit helps, practice helps more. I'm still learning (especially where lead-free is involved).
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I have to admit, I have no idea how to use a soldering station. Not sure that solder stations even existed when I had cdt lesson in the 80's and then I was taught with leaded solder.
The weller iron was bought as a gift, and therefore have no idea how to go about saying thank you but better buy this one... first world problems.
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Still not done anything about this, have a laptop jack to replace as well so.... prioritise innit.
Have been looking on ebay and gumtree but very little is coming up. What do people think of the weller ps2d?
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The venerable ps2d is a very competent piece of kit.
It was the industry standard kit for years and years.
The thermostatic control is achieved by curie point magnets in the interchangeable tips.
Theres a huge range of tips available, with different temperatures and thermal masses and shapes.
I have one, but I now mostly use one with a dial to set the temperature tather than the older magnetic ones which required a tip change.
But I still rate them highly.
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The PS2D vendor had a few and they ranged from £35 to £100+ contacting him was interesting and could say why the prices were different they just were.
Ended up buying this for £4 now to get tips...as it only came with a pointed one.
(https://imgur.com/a/pNllUNt)
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Any updates on this ? Also any recommendation for a BFO chassis iron? I have a rothenburger solder gun (as https://www.diy.com/departments/rothenberger-corded-soldering-gun/206925_BQ.prd) but it's a piece of shite, won't even get hot enough to melt solder now, and it hasn't see that much use.
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These are extremely good for the price:
https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programmable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=USA
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Any updates on this ? Also any recommendation for a BFO chassis iron? I have a rothenburger solder gun (as https://www.diy.com/departments/rothenberger-corded-soldering-gun/206925_BQ.prd) but it's a piece of shite, won't even get hot enough to melt solder now, and it hasn't see that much use.
I had one of those. And like your's, it was rubbish.
Anything with the word 'Antex' on the handle, is generally good.
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These are extremely good for the price:
https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programmable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=USA
That looks interesting, thanks
Anything with the word 'Antex' on the handle, is generally good.
You mean, like my sole functioning iron
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ITQIO9O64kg/Xa7A-eeYxuI/AAAAAAADF7c/9j-POiATl9kSq-KDcAFxVkrHQrgb5V0aACKgBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20191022_093636.jpg)
I figger this to be about 40 years old
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Any updates on this ? Also any recommendation for a BFO chassis iron? I have a rothenburger solder gun (as https://www.diy.com/departments/rothenberger-corded-soldering-gun/206925_BQ.prd) but it's a piece of shite, won't even get hot enough to melt solder now, and it hasn't see that much use.
There are two common issues:
1) Old soldering irons are meant for lead-tin solder and simply struggle to get to the (only slightly higher) temperatures required for modern lead free solders.
2) trigger operated 'solder guns' are incredibly simple machines and they normally work by having a transformer which has a very low number of turns in the secondary. The primary has lots of turns and often the bulb in the handle is in series with the primary.
The secondary has lots of current in it and not very many volts at all. The tip is of a different material and is meant to be resistively heated by a large current flowing through it. If the bulb is working normally and the tip heats but simply doesn't get hot enough, the reason is very simple; there is too much resistance in the secondary circuit. The extra resistance almost invariably comes from bad contacts where the changeable tip is mounted; there is basically no other place it can come from. These contacts are often loose, contaminated and/or tarnished. Once these contacts are cleaned and tightened, the solder gun ought to work as well as it ever did.
cheers
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..... the solder gun ought to work as well as it ever did.
Not especially comforting.
Liking the look of this as a chassis iron https://www.banggood.com/200W-Soldering-Iron-Heavy-Duty-Chisel-Point-200-Watt-Craft-Tools-AC-220V-p-1113708.html
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nothing to lose by trying though
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These are extremely good for the price:
https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programmable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=USA
There's also the TS-80, which is slightly less powerful but better constructed and runs off standard USB QC3 power.
I have a TS-100 and it's easily good enough for an electronics hobbyist to use as a main iron. Vastly better than an unregulated iron. It'll run from a standard Toshiba style laptop supply (though your soldering experience will be greatly enhanced if you use a silicone-insulated[1] cable for the final run to the iron), or 5 Li+ cells in series, and should be adequate for most electronics work when fed from 12V. I've molished anna daptor to power it from a Makita tool battery (the TS-80 came out about 5 minutes later), which is convenient for working on things in situ (or, occasionally, in the middle of a field).
I've never used an old-style solder gun myself, though I've seen them used to good effect on large power transistors in CRT displays. They seem completely unwieldy for smaller stuff, and I mentally file them alongside gas-powered irons: probably okay for making up cables.
[1] Not only does this not melt when exposed to soldering temperatures, but it's massively more flexible than the usual PVC.
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Ended up getting one of these cheaply second hand: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soldering-Station-Digital-Desoldering-Variable/dp/B07L69M1HV
You are welcome to borrow it.
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Thanks, I don't do much circuit board soldering these days, tends to be odd lead/board connection, or big sections (hence the chassis iron), it's just useful to have when you need it. Last night I ended up soldering the solid stuff on the clock with a MAPP blowtorch. The end result is not pretty.
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I've never used an old-style solder gun myself, though I've seen them used to good effect on large power transistors in CRT displays. They seem completely unwieldy for smaller stuff, and I mentally file them alongside gas-powered irons: probably okay for making up cables.
And they truly EXCELLENT for carving closed cell polystyrene and upholstery foam ;D
nothing to lose by trying though
v. true. And yes, the bulb is dodgy/now gone but I don't think it is in series. Instead it appears to be off another secondary winding. Anyhow, I've ordered some new, if it works I will keep it for foam cutting, which it probably is hot enough to do.
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I've never used an old-style solder gun myself, though I've seen them used to good effect on large power transistors in CRT displays. They seem completely unwieldy for smaller stuff, and I mentally file them alongside gas-powered irons: probably okay for making up cables.
And they truly EXCELLENT for carving closed cell polystyrene and upholstery foam ;D
As is a bit of nichrome wire and a bench power supply in constant-current mode.
I have a 20W unregulated mains-powered iron (that always ran a bit too hot for electronics) for general melting-things duty. It's the easiest way to make square holes in ABS enclosures, for example.
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These are extremely good for the price:
https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programmable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=USA
That looks interesting, thanks
Anything with the word 'Antex' on the handle, is generally good.
You mean, like my sole functioning iron
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ITQIO9O64kg/Xa7A-eeYxuI/AAAAAAADF7c/9j-POiATl9kSq-KDcAFxVkrHQrgb5V0aACKgBGAsYHg/s1600/IMG_20191022_093636.jpg)
I figger this to be about 40 years old
Fess up.
You've been using that as a crowbar.
Haven't you?.
The 13amp plug takes me back to my childhood.
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Any updates on this ? Also any recommendation for a BFO chassis iron? I have a rothenburger solder gun (as https://www.diy.com/departments/rothenberger-corded-soldering-gun/206925_BQ.prd) but it's a piece of shite, won't even get hot enough to melt solder now, and it hasn't see that much use.
There are two common issues:
1) Old soldering irons are meant for lead-tin solder and simply struggle to get to the (only slightly higher) temperatures required for modern lead free solders.
2) trigger operated 'solder guns' are incredibly simple machines and they normally work by having a transformer which has a very low number of turns in the secondary. The primary has lots of turns and often the bulb in the handle is in series with the primary.
The secondary has lots of current in it and not very many volts at all. The tip is of a different material and is meant to be resistively heated by a large current flowing through it. If the bulb is working normally and the tip heats but simply doesn't get hot enough, the reason is very simple; there is too much resistance in the secondary circuit. The extra resistance almost invariably comes from bad contacts where the changeable tip is mounted; there is basically no other place it can come from. These contacts are often loose, contaminated and/or tarnished. Once these contacts are cleaned and tightened, the solder gun ought to work as well as it ever did.
cheers
All the trigger soldering irons that I have seen have a one turn secondary. The turn is the same section all the way round and the two ends are exposed. I have estimated them to run at about 500 A.
The one that I had with a lamp had a second secondary an auxiliary winding with a few tens of turns to light the low voltage bulb, so if that had failed, it wouldn't have affected the soldering.
The tips degrade, especially with lead-free solder. I've had them break, but they can just get weak / high resistance and work badly. They are disposable items. It's worth trying a new one, as I can't see how any other part would degrade.
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200W @ 500A means the voltage would be ~0.4V and the resistance is some tiny fraction of an ohm. If so, no wonder the tip contacts need to be clean!
cheers
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Checked the resistance (my Fluke calibrates zero with the resistance of the leads) and get c. 0.1 ohm or less for the bit. Secondary winding resistance is below my meter's resolution, 6 turns of c 8 gauge wire, so no surprise there.
The bulb winding is deffo not in series with the primary, measures 1.5 ohms. The primary measures 86.5 ohms, live to neutral no bulb in holder. Interesting the difference in inductive load, because obv if that was resistive, it would be running at (takes off socks for counting).....700ish Watts? Nominal load rating is 100W.
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All transformers have a much lower resistance than a pure resistor of the same rating. As you get to bigger transformers, the winding resistance gets tiny. It's quite common to need something to stop the inrush current getting too big in the 1/4 cycle that it takes to build up the magnetic field.
See also the pull-in rating of ac relays, where the inductance is small until the magnetic circuit is completed by the relay operating.