Anyone tried a TailFin

[citoyen]

(I'd forgotten that people are buying carbon frames to carry luggage around on ... )

I guess the point is that lots of people only have one bike for all their needs. So they'll choose a bike that's primarily suitable for sportives but also want to use it for commuting. And they'd rather compromise that way round than end up riding L'Etape on a heavy steel tourer.

[L CC]

I didn't even want a carbon bike, I wanted aluminium but I could only get that with tiagra. The bike's bloody lovely but it's still a compromise.

How do you find it?  Weight, stability, etc?

Arkel stuff is good.  I have their seat pack which is far better than Apidura, etc.  I did see this rack last year but had forgotten about it.
I'm not into beam racks but this is different.  It might actually be a better option (for me) than Tailfin.

Yeah, we have the tailrider and it's excellent. This is/was a better option for me. It's on /off in seconds.



So far, rock solid. I can't tell it's there. I haven't actually carried much on it- but that's just it- if I were carrying a lot, I'd use the shopper. You can see how small the frame is, and there's no clearance for a saddlebag that's big enough for a jumper, let alone 3 sandwiches and a packet of crisps.

[L CC]

(I'd forgotten that people are buying carbon frames to carry luggage around on ... )

I guess the point is that lots of people only have one bike for all their needs. So they'll choose a bike that's primarily suitable for sportives but also want to use it for commuting. And they'd rather compromise that way round than end up riding L'Etape on a heavy steel tourer.

Even if you've got loadsa bikes, sometimes you want to carry stuff. There's an assumption you're either trekking the Antarctic or racing a TT. Most of my rides are somewhere inbetween.

[Kim]

I got one of these: https://www.arkel-od.com/arkel-randonneur-rack/

It's nowhere near as sexy as the tailfin.

That looks like a vast improvement on a normal beam rack, which is usually seen sticking out sideways at some random angle.  Same goes for the TailFin, of course.

[hubner]

So far, rock solid. I can't tell it's there. I haven't actually carried much on it- but that's just it- if I were carrying a lot, I'd use the shopper. You can see how small the frame is, and there's no clearance for a saddlebag that's big enough for a jumper, let alone 3 sandwiches and a packet of crisps.

The top tube is very low but the saddle is above the rear wheel by a good distance which is what matters. I think there might be enough space between saddle and rear tyre for Caradice saddlebag. I'm 1.7m and my Cadet (Nelson without side pockets) and Bagman just avoids touching the mudguard. The smaller Barley would be well above the mudguard.

[hubner]

I got one of these: https://www.arkel-od.com/arkel-randonneur-rack/

It's nowhere near as sexy as the tailfin.

That looks like a vast improvement on a normal beam rack, which is usually seen sticking out sideways at some random angle.  Same goes for the TailFin, of course.

A beam rack which just attach to the seatpin is just bad design, try holding a bag with your arm straight out horizontally.

The vertical support would make a huge improvement but the  main part of the rack is still unsupported.

[Kim]

I got one of these: https://www.arkel-od.com/arkel-randonneur-rack/

It's nowhere near as sexy as the tailfin.

That looks like a vast improvement on a normal beam rack, which is usually seen sticking out sideways at some random angle.  Same goes for the TailFin, of course.

A beam rack which just attach to the seatpin is just bad design, try holding a bag with your arm straight out horizontally.

The vertical support would make a huge improvement.

There's already a Rule According To Kim™ about that: "Cantilevered cycle luggage, while sometimes necessary, is rarely a good idea."

[ElyDave]

I got one of these: https://www.arkel-od.com/arkel-randonneur-rack/

It's nowhere near as sexy as the tailfin.

That looks like a vast improvement on a normal beam rack, which is usually seen sticking out sideways at some random angle.  Same goes for the TailFin, of course.

A beam rack which just attach to the seatpin is just bad design, try holding a bag with your arm straight out horizontally.

The vertical support would make a huge improvement but the  main part of the rack is still unsupported.

Looks reasonable for light loads/audax kit, but has the same issue with seatpost attachment - not recumbent friendly

[Frank9755]

Thanks
Interesting on the second one that what they did to attach the Tailfin rack to the seat post clamp is exactly what I was thinking to allow it to be used on the recumbent with no seatpost but with conventional rack attachment point.
I would also be planning on using it with my existing Altura rack pack if it will fit/work as that sits well behind the seat

Yes, he had to fabricate his own connector, but doesn't look too challenging. 

I see it's not in the review but what he has ended up doing is using the TF rack but with a different bag, which addresses his concerns in the review.  He has posted further about it in the TCR facebook group.

[Frank9755]

(I'd forgotten that people are buying carbon frames to carry luggage around on ... )

You must have seen plenty on TPR, no? 

People think ultraracing is about spending a long time cycling.  But most riders actually spend more time working out (1) their route and (2) how to carry luggage on a carbon frame!

[Frank9755]

Yeah, we have the tailrider and it's excellent. This is/was a better option for me. It's on /off in seconds.

So far, rock solid. I can't tell it's there. I haven't actually carried much on it- but that's just it- if I were carrying a lot, I'd use the shopper. You can see how small the frame is, and there's no clearance for a saddlebag that's big enough for a jumper, let alone 3 sandwiches and a packet of crisps.

Thanks - looks good.  I may well get one of those instead of the TF.

[sojournermike]

I didn't even want a carbon bike, I wanted aluminium but I could only get that with tiagra. The bike's bloody lovely but it's still a compromise.

How do you find it?  Weight, stability, etc?

Arkel stuff is good.  I have their seat pack which is far better than Apidura, etc.  I did see this rack last year but had forgotten about it.
I'm not into beam racks but this is different.  It might actually be a better option (for me) than Tailfin.

Yeah, we have the tailrider and it's excellent. This is/was a better option for me. It's on /off in seconds.



So far, rock solid. I can't tell it's there. I haven't actually carried much on it- but that's just it- if I were carrying a lot, I'd use the shopper. You can see how small the frame is, and there's no clearance for a saddlebag that's big enough for a jumper, let alone 3 sandwiches and a packet of crisps.

Impressively short seat tube on that frame!

[quixoticgeek]

I decided against it because a) £££ and b) I don't like the actual bag- roll top sucks big fat hairy balls.

I got one of these: https://www.arkel-od.com/arkel-randonneur-rack/

It's nowhere near as sexy as the tailfin.

And (obv) I don't have a normal, round, seatpost. That would be waaaaay too easy.

Can that rack only go horizontal? I wonder how it would work in cases where the top of the wheel is not far from the bottom of the saddle on the plane parallel to the ground... This is the biggest problem i find.

J

[L CC]

The top tube is very low but the saddle is above the rear wheel by a good distance which is what matters. I think there might be enough space between saddle and rear tyre for Caradice saddlebag. I'm 1.7m and my Cadet (Nelson without side pockets) and Bagman just avoids touching the mudguard. The smaller Barley would be well above the mudguard.

There isn't enough post for a SQR. I'm 160. The picture makes it look like there's loads of space- when you get a bag swinging on there, suddenly, there isn't. I have the holes in bags and buzzed tyres to prove this.
And- I hate Carradice, They're even uglier, heavier and smellier than me.

Can that rack only go horizontal? I wonder how it would work in cases where the top of the wheel is not far from the bottom of the saddle on the plane parallel to the ground... This is the biggest problem i find.
J

I'll switch it to my MTB- that's got even less clearance for a bag behind the saddle. Pics to follow. Narrow clearance makes less difference than with a bag as it's so solid.

Bought new, the rack comes with extension legs. It's neater without them, looks better on smaller frames. I got this one as an absolute bargain from Aidan OTP.

[mattc]

(I'd forgotten that people are buying carbon frames to carry luggage around on ... )

You must have seen plenty on TPR, no? 

People think ultraracing is about spending a long time cycling.  But most riders actually spend more time working out (1) their route and (2) how to carry luggage on a carbon frame!

Yeah, that fits with my experience on the "scene" !

[Kim]

Looks reasonable for light loads/audax kit, but has the same issue with seatpost attachment - not recumbent friendly

Lots of things are never going to be recumbent-friendly on this basis; it's like a more extreme version of them not being short-rider-friendly.

TBH, recumbent luggage tends to gravitate to one of:
1) Full touring pannier setup, often involving bike-specific luggage racks, on bikes that are never going to be lightweight.
2) Banananananana or seat-back bags.
3) Rigid aerodynamic tailboxes in various sizes.
4) Lightweight racks mounted to the seat with very limited load ratings (eg. Fujin day rack.)

I think the "enough room for a toolkit, sandwiches and a layer of warm clothing" level luggage is well served for most bikes by one of these, unless you've already filled the back of the seat with bottle cages or batteries or something.

I think a carbon fibre tailbox is the recumbent spiritual equivalent of the TailFin...

[Sergeant Pluck]

Yeah, we have the tailrider and it's excellent. This is/was a better option for me. It's on /off in seconds.

So far, rock solid. I can't tell it's there. I haven't actually carried much on it- but that's just it- if I were carrying a lot, I'd use the shopper. You can see how small the frame is, and there's no clearance for a saddlebag that's big enough for a jumper, let alone 3 sandwiches and a packet of crisps.

Thanks - looks good.  I may well get one of those instead of the TF.

Looks a much better job.

Thinking of getting one and selling my Bagmen and associated gubbins, and on my fixed just using the Arkel beam when needed + my existing Arkel Tailrider.

[ElyDave]

Looks reasonable for light loads/audax kit, but has the same issue with seatpost attachment - not recumbent friendly

Lots of things are never going to be recumbent-friendly on this basis; it's like a more extreme version of them not being short-rider-friendly.

TBH, recumbent luggage tends to gravitate to one of:
1) Full touring pannier setup, often involving bike-specific luggage racks, on bikes that are never going to be lightweight.
2) Banananananana or seat-back bags.
3) Rigid aerodynamic tailboxes in various sizes.
4) Lightweight racks mounted to the seat with very limited load ratings (eg. Fujin day rack.)

I think the "enough room for a toolkit, sandwiches and a layer of warm clothing" level luggage is well served for most bikes by one of these, unless you've already filled the back of the seat with bottle cages or batteries or something.

I think a carbon fibre tailbox is the recumbent spiritual equivalent of the TailFin...

Only thing with a big CF tailbox, is it doesn't then fit on my Airnimal when I want to take that on holibobs with me.

[hubner]

The top tube is very low but the saddle is above the rear wheel by a good distance which is what matters. I think there might be enough space between saddle and rear tyre for Caradice saddlebag. I'm 1.7m and my Cadet (Nelson without side pockets) and Bagman just avoids touching the mudguard. The smaller Barley would be well above the mudguard.

There isn't enough post for a SQR. I'm 160. The picture makes it look like there's loads of space- when you get a bag swinging on there, suddenly, there isn't. I have the holes in bags and buzzed tyres to prove this.
And- I hate Carradice, They're even uglier, heavier and smellier than me.

For those who do not hate Carradice, the smaller saddlebags, eg Barley, need:

Clearance required from saddle rails to just above rear wheel  - 18cm approx

https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/saddle-fixing-systems/bagman-quick-release-support-sport-original

[sojournermike]

Looks reasonable for light loads/audax kit, but has the same issue with seatpost attachment - not recumbent friendly

Lots of things are never going to be recumbent-friendly on this basis; it's like a more extreme version of them not being short-rider-friendly.

TBH, recumbent luggage tends to gravitate to one of:
1) Full touring pannier setup, often involving bike-specific luggage racks, on bikes that are never going to be lightweight.
2) Banananananana or seat-back bags.
3) Rigid aerodynamic tailboxes in various sizes.
4) Lightweight racks mounted to the seat with very limited load ratings (eg. Fujin day rack.)

I think the "enough room for a toolkit, sandwiches and a layer of warm clothing" level luggage is well served for most bikes by one of these, unless you've already filled the back of the seat with bottle cages or batteries or something.

I think a carbon fibre tailbox is the recumbent spiritual equivalent of the TailFin...

Only thing with a big CF tailbox, is it doesn't then fit on my Airnimal when I want to take that on holibobs with me.

But, importantly, does the air I always fit inside the big CF tailbox?

[mattc]

Most bikes wot don't have oles are carbon. I wouldn't dream fo putting p-clips around carbon seat stays, never mind putting any weight on them.

Coming back to this (and bearing in mind I don't know a heap about CF):

We've got people canti-levering luggage off carbon seat-posts; does that work because a post is a lot stronger than a seat-stay? (I would say the stress there is actually a lot larger than the force on a seat-stay - because of the leverage* -  but I don't have any numbers)

IAMFI (and out of curiousity!)


*see

...
There's already a Rule According To Kim™ about that: "Cantilevered cycle luggage, while sometimes necessary, is rarely a good idea."

[grams]

We've got people canti-levering luggage off carbon seat-posts; does that work because a post is a lot stronger than a seat-stay?

P clips both compress the stay and transfer the load to in a very concentrated way, two things carbon is very bad at dealing with. The velcro and rubber stuff like the Tailfin is softer and distributes the load over a wider area.

Which reminds me of the existence of this abomination / work of genius which I'd be reasonably happy using on a carbon frame.

[Jack_P]

I'm probably going to buy one when they get the aluminium ones back in stock again.  I've researched them quite a bit and read reviews.  These are the best two, by riders with similar objectives to me, and who both think quite a bit about kit:
https://burlycross.wordpress.com/2020/06/11/tailfin-rack-trunkpack-review/ 
https://ridefar.info/2020/08/tailfin-aeropack-review/

I would only want the rack, which seems well designed and is more aero for ultraracing than other racks, which is why I'd want it.  I wouldn't want their bag as I don't like roll-tops for accessibility reasons and it wouldn't work well with my saddle height.

If you have rack mounts on your frame it's not that expensive - something like £75.

My concerns with it are:

- That it doesn't yet have a good way to set it back further from the frame.

- That there isn't a way to mount lights.  This is a pain and surprising they didn't think of it.   They do sell an adaptor for their bags but it doesn't look great, puts the light right in the line of spray if you don't have a fulll length mudguard, is attached ot the bag not the frame hence not legal in many places, etc.  And it's £25 for a little bit of plastic

- The platform at the top is nothing like a standard shape so racktime or Topeak platforms won't work on it.

It's disappointing that I would have to do two significant bodges to make it useable, but nothing is perfect.

Wondered where the traffic had come from, cheers Frank
I should update that review, come rant, as Tailfin finally sent me some new parts and I have used the bag almost non stop all this year including at least 30 over-nighters without further problems. I find it more stable with panniers (not tailfin) than my previous tubus rack as I go off road often and generally forget its even there.
The bag is definitely 100% waterproof which is great for just throwing stuff in without any worries, but if you want regular access on a ride this is not the bag for you, it gets irritating.  I tend to now fill this with stuff just for overnight use and stash in ride use stuff elsewhere.

Tailfin have made a top flat platform circular loop for a few people, to strap a tent or other bag on, but they don't appear to sell it yet. Jay Petervary has one, look up his Instagram photos.

[ElyDave]

We've got people canti-levering luggage off carbon seat-posts; does that work because a post is a lot stronger than a seat-stay?

P clips both compress the stay and transfer the load to in a very concentrated way, two things carbon is very bad at dealing with. The velcro and rubber stuff like the Tailfin is softer and distributes the load over a wider area.

Which reminds me of the existence of this abomination / work of genius which I'd be reasonably happy using on a carbon frame.

Have seen one of those on a recumbent successfully

[sojournermike]

We've got people canti-levering luggage off carbon seat-posts; does that work because a post is a lot stronger than a seat-stay?

P clips both compress the stay and transfer the load to in a very concentrated way, two things carbon is very bad at dealing with. The velcro and rubber stuff like the Tailfin is softer and distributes the load over a wider area.

Which reminds me of the existence of this abomination / work of genius which I'd be reasonably happy using on a carbon frame.

Sorry, just no