Touring Bikes?

[Notfromrugby]

People over-worry about accidental mechanicals... and under-worry about regular maintenance.
With good maintenance, mechanicals are extremely rare and even there, they very rarely leave you unable to cycle.
I once wrecked a chainring, but it was entirely my fault, for using a completely inappropriate (Alfine) chainring in single speed mode and having removed the protective fairing, which gave some structural rigidity to the all assembly.

When I helped at MC1K, I brought along my all workshop... think a cumulative 60,000 km over the hilliest parts of Wales and all I had to do was to fix a puncture...

[perpetual dan]

...

For that to apply, the following conditions need to pile up:

1) You have an unfixable error
2) You find a shop
3) The shop doesn't have what you need
4) The shop has something else, that would work
5) The distance to the next shop is intolerably large
6) Time pressure is such that you can't wait a few days for FexEx

We're getting into some very, very improbable scenarios here.  It seems rather analogous to the EDC folk who 'need' a 76 function Leatherman to walk to the shops **just in case** they need to dig a stone out of a horse's hoof on the way.  How likely is it to happen, what's the consequence of you having the less fixable solution, and what's the cost of the mitigation you want to impose?

My typical "tour" is a long weekend away, somewhere reasonably well away from crowds. So:
 - If the problem is unfixable, even in the UK "find a shop" could well involve a longish walk and waiting until tomorrow for the shop to be open.
 - 3 seems to be triggered by neither running the latest components, nor budget bike 8 speed. I'm not doing either of those at the moment.
 - Having found one bike shop, I've probably found enough civilization that the next one isn't so hard to get to - and can be phoned to check stock. But if I'm running some outdated or esoteric setup then Evans is no more likely to have stock than Halfords.
 - Time pressure does usually apply to me, so Fed Ex from a specialist would usually translate to "get yourself home" and deliver it there.

Friction friendly bar end shifters, cable operated brakes, and a small tupperware of spare parts do, I think, help make the bike adaptable to roadside fixes and some level of "what's in stock" fixing. A small box (and budget) for spares (plus inner tubes) keep me honest about the likelihood, consequences and my ability to apply a fix at the roadside.


Anyway, I hope Wallace found something that suits today

[hatler]

Bits that have broken when out cycling, in no particular order:
Spokes
seatpost
saddle nosebolt
BB (complete bearing failure, crank was just waving around)
wheel rim
chain (8spd, snapped)
BB shell distorted
derailleur hanger
wheel axle (many  years ago on a cheapish bike)
rear rack

Oooo. Interesting thinking.
In no particular order : -
Bust spokes
Missing end to my mini-pump (probably my only walk-somewhere event)
Brake cable
Gear cable
SPD pedal fitting snapped (but only on one side of the pedal)
Rack weld split (cable tied)

That's it.

[JonBuoy]

When I helped at MC1K, I brought along my all workshop... think a cumulative 60,000 km over the hilliest parts of Wales and all I had to do was to fix a puncture...

I did spend ages on the side of yet another Pembrokeshire hill extracting the nub end of a gear cable out of my rear shifter after I decided that I needed to be able to use all thirty gears not just three of them.

There were also a few mechanicals at the last control.  My mate complained bitterly to me that Deano had sorted out his brakes for him so he felt obliged to continue 

[quixoticgeek]

...

For that to apply, the following conditions need to pile up:

1) You have an unfixable error
2) You find a shop
3) The shop doesn't have what you need
4) The shop has something else, that would work
5) The distance to the next shop is intolerably large
6) Time pressure is such that you can't wait a few days for FexEx

We're getting into some very, very improbable scenarios here.  It seems rather analogous to the EDC folk who 'need' a 76 function Leatherman to walk to the shops **just in case** they need to dig a stone out of a horse's hoof on the way.  How likely is it to happen, what's the consequence of you having the less fixable solution, and what's the cost of the mitigation you want to impose?

My typical "tour" is a long weekend away, somewhere reasonably well away from crowds. So:
 - If the problem is unfixable, even in the UK "find a shop" could well involve a longish walk and waiting until tomorrow for the shop to be open.
 - 3 seems to be triggered by neither running the latest components, nor budget bike 8 speed. I'm not doing either of those at the moment.
 - Having found one bike shop, I've probably found enough civilization that the next one isn't so hard to get to - and can be phoned to check stock. But if I'm running some outdated or esoteric setup then Evans is no more likely to have stock than Halfords.
 - Time pressure does usually apply to me, so Fed Ex from a specialist would usually translate to "get yourself home" and deliver it there.

Friction friendly bar end shifters, cable operated brakes, and a small tupperware of spare parts do, I think, help make the bike adaptable to roadside fixes and some level of "what's in stock" fixing. A small box (and budget) for spares (plus inner tubes) keep me honest about the likelihood, consequences and my ability to apply a fix at the roadside.


Anyway, I hope Wallace found something that suits today

You're unlucky if you've gone for a long weekend away on a well maintained bike and you have a total show stopper. Either that or you're experimenting with lithobraking...

In the last 30000km I've had one broken spoke, and that was as a result of the bike falling over. The rear mech got knocked, so the chain shifted into -1 gear, and the chain damaged a spoke. It broke some 1000+km later. I carry a couple of spare spokes, tho no spoke key. More so a shop can fix my bike for me, rather then me bodge a fix in deep dark Zeeland. That's it, that's the only mechanical I've had. When I ran cable operated disk brakes, I did rebuild the back brake at the side of the road in Noord Brabant, but that was because it was starting to not be as effective as I hoped, after doing 1500km in 6 days. I didn't need to do it, but I had the tools and parts, so gave it a go. These days I run hydraulic disk brakes, and di2 shifters. I carry a spare brake hose. I could replace the oil with baby oil if something went really bad. As mentioned I have wires for Di2 rewiring.

Before a big trip I do replace the chain, cassette, discs, bottom bracket, pads, jockey wheels, and chainrings. Before the next big one I'll probably also do the headset bearings.

What things do you expect to fail?

J

[Kim]

What things do you expect to fail?

Overwhelmingly, the rider.

[quixoticgeek]

Overwhelmingly, the rider.

Oh yeah, the meat sack between handlebars and pedals is incredibly failure prone. And even if you do find a bike shop, most just give you weird looks and can't offer any meaningful repairs... Not sure why...

J

[perpetual dan]

What things do you expect to fail?

Overwhelmingly, the rider.

Well, yes, there’s that.
The only problem I couldn’t fix easily on the bike (funny shaped wheel) was accompanied by enough bleeding to put me off riding much further.

I’ve had spokes and a GPS die on a tour.
Chain, shift lever and axle spring to mind as failing on a local ride without prior notice. I have spare links so could fix the chain.

[TimC]

I've managed to shatter a chain with my explosive extreeem POWAH going up Church Hill in Kersey (not a tour, just coming back from the pub IIRC). I've had two punctures in the last three years. That's it, as far back as I can remember. I do like fettling my bikes, so they tend to be in very good order, and I don't do astronomical miles - maybe 2-3000 a year on average.

[Karla]

As QG says, if your tour is a weekend, your maintenance requirements are essentially identical to those of a day ride.  If you're having problems over that distance, DT shifters won't help you!  If you want to run them because they give you a nice Luddite feeling, go ahead but don't try to make out it's anything other than that.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

[Cudzoziemiec]

You've obviously already got the STI hoods. Could you keep them for their comfortable shape but only connect the brake cables, then use DT shifters (or bar ends, whichever you prefer) for friction shifting?

[quixoticgeek]

Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J

[TimC]

Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J

Yep, I have Ultegra Di2 (8000) running a conventional 50/34 compact chainset with an 11-42 on the back. The only adaptation was a 15mm hanger extension. All works perfectly, with the caveat that the Di2 is programmed not to use the largest three cogs at the back while on the big ring.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Setting the maintenance argument aside for now (there being two camps here and no need for flying bread rolls at dawn), I've been considerably peed off with trying to get lower gears on my bike.

The restrictions on shifter/derailleur/chainset/cassette compatibility has made this an expensive and difficult (requiring lots of research) task.

If I didn't really love the shape and comfort of the STI hoods, I would have ditched them and gone to some sort of friction shifters (and square taper BB). Then fitting whatever combination I liked would just be down to the rear derailleur capacity.

Not wanting to sound like a stuck record, but... My Di2 bike has a lowest gear of 28 front 40 back. And works with both the TT shifters, and the GRX STI style shifters...

J

That does sound great.

Just damn stupid that we need mega expensive kit to provide functionality that was available in the 80s.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Though I don't think 11-42 cassettes were available in the 80s...
But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You could get a Suntour Alpine AG 5sp 14-38t freewheel from 1981. It was a low to mid-range freewheel that cost the same as other Japanese freewheels. Not high end at all.
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/suntour_ag_tech_derailleur_5000.html

[Paul H]

But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.

[Lightning Phil]

But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

or friction shifting in which case anything works with anything pretty much.

[quixoticgeek]

But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.

That said, with the rebranding of drop bar touring as bikepacking, there is a growing market demand for low geared drop bar bikes that can go anywhere. Tho they have kinda screwed up the GRX range a little, in that the 46/30 chainset is only available in the lower two price points, and the cassettes don't go very big... officially...

J

[TPMB12]

Edit 2: Modern bike shops are far more likely to stock modern components. Finding spares for your obselete 7 or 8 speed drive train is going to be harder than finding current stuff...

Not so. You certainly won't be able to find any high quality 8 speed stuff but there is a lot of cheap Altus, etc. 7/8 speed kit in just about every mom & pop bike shop (even toy store in remote areas) because that is what the majority of their bikes are already fitted with. You won't find that expensive 11sp kit in there. In the middle of a tour, slapping on a cheap new chain, derailleur or cassette could save your holiday, compared to sitting around for 2-3 days waiting for something to be shipped to you.

My local bike mechanic told me that it's the 7 and 8 speeds that are hardest to get hold of right now. He says that the production is focusing on delivering newer groups etc and indeed higher spec stuff. 10 speed is fairly rare but 11 speed is easier to get hold of. He's in the business for 20 plus years around the country so has a lot of trade contacts. They tell him that and fortunately for me found a good quality Chinese supply cassette for my 9 speed triple recumbent. He said if I didn't take that it could take a long time to get parts, no idea how long.

No idea who has the most up to date picture,  bike mech guy or people on here claiming 7 and 8 speed will be easier to get if needed

[Cudzoziemiec]

But yes, it's mad and annoying that inter-operability is only available through electronic shifting.

We're wandering well off topic, but that is only the case with UK/US preference for drop bar tourers, which has always been too small a market for the big players to bother with, though this may be changing.  The larger market for flat bar tourers, trekking bikes if you prefer, has always been well catered for, either borrowing from the MTB world, or with dedicated groupsets.

But still has problems of incompatibility between this-speed shifters and that-speed mechs. Not to mention, of course, between manufacturers, which obviously applies just as much to electronic shifting.

[quixoticgeek]

My local bike mechanic told me that it's the 7 and 8 speeds that are hardest to get hold of right now. He says that the production is focusing on delivering newer groups etc and indeed higher spec stuff. 10 speed is fairly rare but 11 speed is easier to get hold of. He's in the business for 20 plus years around the country so has a lot of trade contacts. They tell him that and fortunately for me found a good quality Chinese supply cassette for my 9 speed triple recumbent. He said if I didn't take that it could take a long time to get parts, no idea how long.

No idea who has the most up to date picture,  bike mech guy or people on here claiming 7 and 8 speed will be easier to get if needed

This matches my experience working in a bike shop in .NL. Yes supply chains are pretty fucked up right now, but finding 7 or 8 speed parts has been getting harder and harder.

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Of course the current supply chain issues will continue for evermore. Should I place a rolling eyes smiley here?

[quixoticgeek]

Of course the current supply chain issues will continue for evermore. Should I place a rolling eyes smiley here?

I don't know, what is the supply chain like for rolling eye smileys?

J