Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => LEL 2022 => Topic started by: Bagman on 02 October, 2021, 01:21:52 pm
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Last week Grant Farm test rode the proposed LEL 2022 route. I followed his tracker and tracked his route on RidewithGPS.
Below is the route. The days are based on a morning start and a possible plan.
I must stress that this is not the official route . It will be tweeked but it may give some people an idea of what is planned.
Day 1/2 -https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37613890 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37613890)
Day 3 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37630230 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37630230)
Day 4 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37638032 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37638032)
Day 5 - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37647772 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37647772)
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Re: Days 1&3: Is the Whorlton Bridge open again? Thought it was closed to all for a couple of years.
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The track goes over Whorlton Bridge, but that may have been an interpolation from distant tracker points.
I note the route avoids Castle Howard (at least the bit with the landmarks) in both directions. Controversial.
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Pretty sure the bridge is closed to everyone (including cyclists) until at least 2023. I took a detour this year to the north via Winston & Staindrop (avoiding Barnard Castle) which was very pleasant. In fact I'm going to use that route in preference in future years.
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Yes I assumed he went over the bridge, I did not realise it was closed.
I have adjusted my route now to miss out the bridge.
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A day 1 of 635km won’t be my plan by a big margin.
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That is quite a lot yes. Then again, in 2017 I rode to Brampton on the first day and that worked very well in getting ahead of the bulge. Start on Sunday at 12:45, arrived in Brampton Monday around 17:00
Keeping my fingers crossed that LEL will happen in 2022! And just renewed my 5-year AUK membership to make sure I'm eligible for early registration.
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I note the route avoids Castle Howard (at least the bit with the landmarks) in both directions. Controversial.
But on the plus side we (may) get to ride in the North York Moors (SW quarter).
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Phil - Day 1 should be Day1&2, then Day 3 etc - ammended
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Properly into & through Edinburgh too without overdoing it, and avoiding the tram tracks too (assuming the bit immediately east of the current York Place terminus currently under construction isnt in place by then). :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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The track goes over Whorlton Bridge, but that may have been an interpolation from distant tracker points.
I note the route avoids Castle Howard (at least the bit with the landmarks) in both directions. Controversial.
In my view, it's better to avoid Castle Howard - not due to the terrain but to the volume and impatience of the traffic around it. Apart from the outskirts of Edinburgh, I'd say it was the least pleasant part of my LEL2017 ride, for that reason.
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Yeah, and B1257 Malton to Slingsby is sh*te for traffic. A better route through Coneysthorpe.
I rode the Edinburgh route on a Friday PM - its was bit challenging in the city with traffic and navigation
-the old Forth bridge was fun especially riding over with a fuming queue of traffic on the QE bridge up river.
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I believe the Edinburgh route will be advisory, but even so, I'd question the wisdom of directing riders to ride through Drylaw, perhaps at night. No offence to the no doubt many good folk of Drylaw, but I've had primary school-age kids chucking stones at me, when on my bike down there. The bike paths skirting the area aren't much better after dark, especially in school holidays.
Cramond/Silverknowes Esplanade then to the centre through Trinity would be a better route IMO.
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And pretty though it is, sending the ride over the cobbles on South Queensferry's main street may be unwelcome to some
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One final point then I'll wind my neck in - the tram line extension construction is scheduled to take place at Picardy Place (already a gyratory of doom) from autumn '21 to autumn '22 - so it may well be a building site and also have tram tracks placed in some form by then
https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/tramstonewhaven/downloads/file/352/construction-phasing-map-pdf-
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Phil - Day 1 should be Day1&2, then Day 3 etc - ammended
More like it!
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Edinburgh, in my experience, has very good cycling connections, except in the town centre. Crossing Edinburgh city centre is awful in any direction. I live in Granton and if I want to cross to the south side, I go down the Telford path (NCR 1) to Haymarket, then cross to the Union Canal, then through the Meadows and pick up NCR 1 through the Innocent tunnel or Causewayside towards the bypass, depending where I’m heading. Thus avoiding the city centre altogether.
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Taking a closer look. I see it takes the roads through Boreland between Brampton and Moffat. I know we looked at that option for 2017. But road surface considered not good enough for official route. Guess it’s been resurfaced since.
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Happy to confirm a few points:
- The road through Boreland has indeed been resurfaced - mostly. There are still a couple of rough patches but we think it’s probably good enough now.
- Whorlton Bridge remains closed so we don’t use it.
- The official Edinburgh route is two thirds in place. We’re still not totally happy with it, and I suspect it will be a case of tolerating a few negatives for the chance to be able to pass through one of the most beautiful cities in Europe.
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- The road through Boreland has indeed been resurfaced - mostly. There are still a couple of rough patches but we think it’s probably good enough now.
To be honest the alternative B7076 is pretty bad itself and never likely to be resurfaced as it's essentially a ghost road mainly used by trucks. It's also incredibly boring ;)
I'll probably try out the proposed route next June if the Lockerbie truck stop is still not offering bedrooms.
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Yeah us northerners call it the B(oring)7076. It serves a purpose in joining 24 hour services together for a basic 600. LEL is a different being a full facility event
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I have been tidying up my ride with gps files and now have got the proposed LEL route as 5 parts. So the original files/links no longers exist
Just to remind you this not the offical route and includes a few minor tweaks I have made.
Part 1 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682818 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682818)
Part 2 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682860 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682860)
Part 3 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707665 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707665)
Part 4 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707699 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707699)
Part 5 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37724173 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37724173)
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That's brilliant I can get my head around this! Thanks ;D
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I have been tidying up my ride with gps files and now have got the proposed LEL route as 5 parts. So the original files/links no longers exist
Just to remind you this not the offical route and includes a few minor tweaks I have made.
Part 1 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682818 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682818)
Part 2 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682860 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37682860)
Part 3 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707665 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707665)
Part 4 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707699 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37707699)
Part 5 https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37724173 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37724173)
I love it!
Some thoughts... just mine and of no great consequence to anyone else...
Looking at Part 2:
You've got a tiny section of off-road near Riplingham, the road route is better.
In Walkington I'd recommend the 'other two sides of the square': there would be less instructions and it's easier to ride. Follow the road to the x-roads and the SO onto Townend Road and R onto Manor House Lane
Huge kudos for going through Thixendale - a delight of a ride. Although I like the Roman Road nearby, the hazard of the A166 isn't worth it
I still can't believe that LEL is taking the Snilesworth route from Helmsley to Osmotherley... I'm rolling in the floor laughing my ass off. Anyone missing Castle Howard / Coxwold needn't worry... you've given them an awesome treat instead.
Part 4:
The Upsall route is a relief from the fear of returning through the NYMs. Some nice pubs that way. The A168 from Northallerton to Thirsk, then Sowerby and Great Thirkleby is a lot quicker riding, and not such a big deal given you're happy with the Wetwang to Bainton Road.
I love the Castor route South of the Humber Bridge.
A huge effort has clearly gone into this. Nice one.
Graeme.
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It's interesting what some have said regarding going through Edinburgh. I don't know the city at all, and if it's going to be a free route through the city, then I wouldn't have a clue which way to go, or whether I would be choosing horrendously busy roads by mistake. And I live in UK, so I don't know how riders from say Thailand would manage finding their own route in an unfamiliar city. Personally, in the 2017 edition, I hated the section leaving Gracemount until I got onto the quieter roads on the way to Innerleithen and therefore a full traverse of Edinburgh fills me with dread. I really do dislike busy city cycling. Is anyone able to allay my fears?
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Going through Edinburgh (twice) is the reason why I'm not interested in LEL just the thought of it fills me with dread having ridden through it many times before often cheered on by some local wildlife and trying to negotiate some nasty road junctions.
I understand why going into the city is an attraction for the organisers and also the inability to actually make the centre the destination then come back south.
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I now avoid Edinburgh on my annual London-Aberdeen jaunts, partly due to speed, but also the utterly abysmal condition of the roads iaround the city centre - some of the worst I've encountered anywhere in Europe. Maybe things have drastically improved in the intervening 4 years since my last visit but I somehow doubt it.
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As an Edinburgh dweller my 2p worth -
- Its long been anomalous that London - Edinburgh - London doesn't actually visit Edinburgh. I know it doesn't really go to London either but it appears generally accepted that's a blessing not a curse.
- City centre road surfaces in Edinburgh are poor. When I do cycle in the city I feel more at risk from the surfaces and pedestrians acting randomly (esp in August when the city is full) than poor driving. I actually find that taxi and especially bus drivers surprisingly cycle friendly though there's always exceptions.
- For my 1000km in 2018 (and a different 1000km event scheduled for 2024) event start / finish is Haymarket Yards and take riders almost directly onto the Roseburn path which allows for a traffic free segregated tarmac based route pretty much all the way to the Forth Road Bridge. Of course unlike LEL my events don't have the challenge of finding an exit to the south of the city.
- Given the desire to extend the event to Dunfermline next time the suggested routes posted in this thread strike me as being as 0good as its going to get. The permanent traffic jam that is Broughton Street leading to the Picardy Place tram works appear to be the biggest issue (the Drylaw safari might not be far behind) but Edinburgh is pretty small and its likely to be no less difficult than cycling through places Darlington, York, Cambridge or Brest. If somebody were otherwise keen to ride LEL, my advice would be to proceed, sticking to the advised route and certainly not be put off taking part in the event by the idea of cycling through Edinburgh.
LEL has never appealed to me, chiefly on the basis that the bit south of the Humber (approaching 50% of the ride?) is as dull as ditchwater.
Therefore looking at the bigger picture an alternative solutions might be
(a) start the event in /around Edinburgh. Anybody wanting to see the sights could do so before / after the event.
(b) Ditch the idea of LEL completely and move the whole event further north. Something like York - Aberdeen - York would be a much nicer ride.
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I now avoid Edinburgh on my annual London-Aberdeen jaunts, partly due to speed, but also the utterly abysmal condition of the roads iaround the city centre - some of the worst I've encountered anywhere in Europe. Maybe things have drastically improved in the intervening 4 years since my last visit but I somehow doubt it.
They really haven't alas. And now that Dumfries and Galloway have resurfaced the road to Moffat the section from Moffat to the Forth Bridge is a road surface lowlight. Happily we now skirt past the truly awful road surfaces near Roslin. We still need to pin down the final route through town but happily the offroad cycle tracks we propose north of the town centre are a joy in comparison.
I expect the AUK regulars will roll their eyes at the final route through Edinburgh, much as they did the route through Cambridge. Our friends in Europe and India (AIR riders remain our keenest customers) will absolutely love it though, just like they loved the route through Cambridge in 2017 (which was a surprising hit if the rider feedback is true and correct.)
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(a) start the event in /around Edinburgh. Anybody wanting to see the sights could do so before / after the event.
(b) Ditch the idea of LEL completely and move the whole event further north. Something like York - Aberdeen - York would be a much nicer ride.
Thanks hugely for your tuppence worth - really useful to read. I've sent you a message replying to your very kind offer to help on that front. I'm afraid however that I'm going to file the idea of an Edinburgh start. It's very easy to start an event in central London, as we will this time, and relatively easy to route through Edinburgh, as we'll also do. Taking the event into and out of London at all hours would be impossible though. And if you think a ride to Edinburgh that stops in Dalkeith is bad, what do you think people would make of a ride to London that stops near Theydon Bois?
I have to challenge the notion that the route south of the Humber is 'dull as dishwater'. If by 'interesting' you mean hilly and remote, then Scotland is way more interesting. But the endless plains of Lincolnshire add to the variety of the route overall, as do the impossibly pretty villages of Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire, the wolds in Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire itself and the lanes dash back to Debden. 1500km of lowland foothills, on the other hand, would soon get boring.
York Aberdeen York would be interesting, though perhaps a little niche for LEL. The ride I'd be interested in is Manchester to Inverness and back, but I shall defer to my colleague Andy on that score.
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For information purposes; there used to be a York - Oban - York 1100 km (I think 1100 km anyway) permanent. Don't know whether it's still run and I ain't got 3 days to trawl through the new AUK website looking.
"The ride I'd be interested in is Manchester to Inverness and back, but I shall defer to my colleague Andy on that score".
If that's me then for information purposes next year's Inverness 1200 is set for 25-29 September 2022. Details here somewhere:
https://burnleyccevents.com/
Good luck with next year's LEL assuming it's going to go ahead .... I haven't decided yet whether or not to ride.
Andy Corless
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Edinburgh-Loughton-Edinburgh would be even sillier than London-Gracemount-London was.
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Alwyn. As a AUK regular there was no rolling eyes from myself regarding riding through Cambridge, imy fellow wheelman and myself rather enjoyed our tour through Cambridge. . :thumbsup:
No doubt i will also enjoy touring Edinburgh as well.
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The repurposed disused railways from Edinburgh towards the Forth road crossing are indeed excellent. Used them on the West Highlands 1000. As long as the tramlines are bypassed I’m sure a crossing of Edinburgh with add interest at far end.
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looks like Ive got myself a wee project over the next week or so!
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The location of Feanor Outposts in Embra on this route are going to remain a closely guarded secret!
But yes, the cycle paths from central Embra to the Forth Bridges are very good.
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Great work on the route.
As mentioned above, you could cut a corner off the main road route through Edinburgh by taking the Roseburn cycle path from Silverknowes down to Haymarket (which worked well on the WH1000) rejoining the currently plotted route at the National Library. The disadvantage would be getting around Haymarket and up to the Grassmarket, which is probably a bit harder to navigate if you don't know roads, and you would miss the views on the existing route up The Mound.
I really wouldn't worry about cycling through Edinburgh, however. It's a city, and the cycling infrastructure in the centre is not great, but it's not a big place, and getting through the town is a pretty small part of the overall experience.
One (very minor) point about crossing the Forth Bridge; rather than cutting through the hotel grounds at the north end of the bridge, I would recommend staying on the cycle path to join the B981 north of the hotel (and rejoin the bridge the same way on the return). This takes you directly past the pedestrian crossing point at the north end of the bridge. There are cycle paths on both sides of the bridge, but typically only one of them is open, while they work on the other side. If you use the west cycle path exit to the B981 to leave and join the bridge, it doesn't matter which path is open in August next year; you can just cross to or from the appropriate side at the pedestrian crossing.
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One (very minor) point about crossing the Forth Bridge; rather than cutting through the hotel grounds at the north end of the bridge, I would recommend staying on the cycle path to join the B981 north of the hotel (and rejoin the bridge the same way on the return). This takes you directly past the pedestrian crossing point at the north end of the bridge. There are cycle paths on both sides of the bridge, but typically only one of them is open, while they work on the other side. If you use the west cycle path exit to the B981 to leave and join the bridge, it doesn't matter which path is open in August next year; you can just cross to or from the appropriate side at the pedestrian crossing.
This is definitely already the current planned exit north of the bridge. We have been experimenting with using the roundabout heading south, which worked well on the first few recces but I was less certain of it when I rode it with my husband a few months ago. And since the bridge seems permanently closed on one side, trying to create a loop of the bridge is perhaps pointless. My concern is that the north exit ramp is relatively steep and narrow, and although perfectly safe in one direction, perhaps introduces an unacceptable risk of collision when made bidirectional.
Over the last 10 years I think I've spent more time on working on the Edinburgh bits of this route than the rest put together. We will get there though, I'm sure. I'm determined to make this section a success.
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looks like Ive got myself a wee project over the next week or so!
I feel obliged to point out JS's quiet but effective test riding of the Scottish bits of the route since 2016. Thank you JS!
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If you're using the west cycle path exit from the bridge, that won't be a problem. It is constantly in use by lots of cyclists, and I'm not aware of any issues. I think your proposed route from there to Dunfermline via Ferry Toll Road is fine; that's the way I would go.
I don't think I can remember the paths on both sides being open simultaneously in recent years, so I would expect riders to be using the same side of the bridge going north and south. You won't know which side is open until closer to the event next year, but it's easy to cross to the west exit via the pedestrian crossing at the north end of the bridge if the west path is closed for maintenance.
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Going through Edinburgh (twice) is the reason why I'm not interested in LEL just the thought of it fills me with dread having ridden through it many times before often cheered on by some local wildlife and trying to negotiate some nasty road junctions.
I understand why going into the city is an attraction for the organisers and also the inability to actually make the centre the destination then come back south.
Having lived in Edinburgh and currently East Lothian the route from England to South of Edinburgh is stunning and well worth the journey. Edinburgh itself is a small City and you can travel reasonably quickly from one end to the other. The road surface is not great but the traffic speeds are usually slow and although not ideal, it is the way to Dunfermline and over the bridge. The cobbles are the real challenge, but they can be avoided too. Adding one of the most beautiful Cities in the World into the LEL will offer another aspect or dimension to the whole journey. Hope that helps.
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If you're using the west cycle path exit from the bridge, that won't be a problem. It is constantly in use by lots of cyclists, and I'm not aware of any issues. I think your proposed route from there to Dunfermline via Ferry Toll Road is fine; that's the way I would go.
I don't think I can remember the paths on both sides being open simultaneously in recent years, so I would expect riders to be using the same side of the bridge going north and south. You won't know which side is open until closer to the event next year, but it's easy to cross to the west exit via the pedestrian crossing at the north end of the bridge if the west path is closed for maintenance.
What's the width of the path ? I will be on a trike with a 32 inch width over the wheels and have found a fewt dedicated cycle paths to be a bit of a squeeze.
Paul
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If you're using the west cycle path exit from the bridge, that won't be a problem. It is constantly in use by lots of cyclists, and I'm not aware of any issues. I think your proposed route from there to Dunfermline via Ferry Toll Road is fine; that's the way I would go.
I don't think I can remember the paths on both sides being open simultaneously in recent years, so I would expect riders to be using the same side of the bridge going north and south. You won't know which side is open until closer to the event next year, but it's easy to cross to the west exit via the pedestrian crossing at the north end of the bridge if the west path is closed for maintenance.
What's the width of the path ? I will be on a trike with a 32 inch width over the wheels and have found a fewt dedicated cycle paths to be a bit of a squeeze.
Paul
Here's the East side path, which is the one which is usually in use:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9969494,-3.4040855,3a,75y,16.93h,86.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOyB8Ly5THtbG6zwsW9jJhtewTWl32WmF5ZkT2a!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOyB8Ly5THtbG6zwsW9jJhtewTWl32WmF5ZkT2a%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya16.696775-ro-0-fo100!7i11264!8i5632?hl=en-GB
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looks like Ive got myself a wee project over the next week or so!
I feel obliged to point out JS's quiet but effective test riding of the Scottish bits of the route since 2016. Thank you JS!
I am here to serve (unlike Novak ;D).
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Here's the East side path, which is the one which is usually in use:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9969494,-3.4040855,3a,75y,16.93h,86.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOyB8Ly5THtbG6zwsW9jJhtewTWl32WmF5ZkT2a!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOyB8Ly5THtbG6zwsW9jJhtewTWl32WmF5ZkT2a%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya16.696775-ro-0-fo100!7i11264!8i5632?hl=en-GB
Many thanks :thumbsup:
Paul
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Just read the article from the person who did the route check and he made a few navigation errors so beware they may be in the proposed routres I have posted.
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Just read the article from the person who did the route check and he made a few navigation errors so beware they may be in the proposed routres I have posted.
Hi - that was me !
Yes - there were a few minor deviations from the track I'd been given to test ride ... but it wasn't the definitive route, so I'd expect changes to it and wouldn't trust any track except the final one supplied by the organiser, which should become available some time around March.
And, as it says on the audax.uk event page: "This event has a mandatory route - you should follow the route instructions as closely as possible."
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Going through Edinburgh (twice) is the reason why I'm not interested in LEL just the thought of it fills me with dread having ridden through it many times before often cheered on by some local wildlife and trying to negotiate some nasty road junctions.
I understand why going into the city is an attraction for the organisers and also the inability to actually make the centre the destination then come back south.
TBF you only pass through once. Northbound the route passes east of Livingston.
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does anyone know if the start location is the same for everyone? i`ve heard that earlier starters maybe starting from the Guild Hall ?
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does anyone know if the start location is the same for everyone? i`ve heard that earlier starters maybe starting from the Guild Hall ?
I recommend you read the LEL website FAQs (answered). This one is for you:
https://londonedinburghlondon.com/faq#faq17
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does anyone know if the start location is the same for everyone? i`ve heard that earlier starters maybe starting from the Guild Hall ?
I just checked this with the organiser, because the LEL website FAQ says "The start point for London Edinburgh London 2022 will be Davenant Foundation School" but I read some contradictory comments on the FB page.
The intention is that the early starters on the 100 hour schedule will actually leave from central London (the organiser is keen to avoid early hours disturbance in the residential area around Davenant School) and the later starts will be from Davenant School, as per the website. The central London start is still TBC, because there have been some issues around confirming access to the venue that LEL has previously used, but the organiser was hoping to sort that out this week.
I had already booked accommodation near to Davenant, but as I am considering a 100 hour start, I now have accommodation booked in central London as well, with the intention of just cancelling the one that is not needed once things are confirmed.
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Going through Edinburgh (twice) is the reason why I'm not interested in LEL just the thought of it fills me with dread having ridden through it many times before often cheered on by some local wildlife and trying to negotiate some nasty road junctions.
I understand why going into the city is an attraction for the organisers and also the inability to actually make the centre the destination then come back south.
TBF you only pass through once. Northbound the route passes east of Livingston.
Indeed, I was being overgenerous with the size of Edinburgh, north and south routes each have there own peculiarities shall we say :thumbsup:
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Drove over the Helmsley to Osmotherly bit today.
Some walking may be involved.
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What was the steepest grade sign you saw? I believe that section is only northbound reading the route check blog.
https://adultmale.wordpress.com/2021/10/08/route-checking/
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Didn't see any gradient signs. Cleveland Wheelers website suggests 18% with max at 25%. Maybe looks worse in a car and I'm not a natural hill climber.
There isn't any flat on that bit and its quite narrow , which isnt a problem on the ups but might be on the downs.
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Quick question: are all controls used on both the way up and back down? (with the obvious exception of the controls North of Brampton and the control at Great Easton). I know they were in 2017 (Alston was optional then I think?), but you know about assumptions ;)
Also, completely unrelated, any hint on which start group will be the letter Z?
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Also, completely unrelated, any hint on which start group will be the letter Z?
The 26th start group is 11:00 in my estimation.
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Quick question: are all controls used on both the way up and back down? (with the obvious exception of the controls North of Brampton and the control at Great Easton). I know they were in 2017 (Alston was optional then I think?), but you know about assumptions ;)
https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route
Alston will be (I believe) entirely optional. In 2017 it was advertised not to be open till 1800 Day 2.
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Alston is basically extra beds available if Yad Moss weather is awful .. not really a control at all. Working out Z is nearly impossible .. not every start from Guildhall may be needed so are there 9 max or fewer . Then Danial has changed first start from Davenant to 7.00 from original plan of 8.00 so is this change allowed for ?
And do we have O anyway . to avoid number/ letter confusion.
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I see the route has been posted on the website:
https://londonedinburghlondon.com/route
Though one of my computers has cached an old version of the page so you might need to refresh/clean etc
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I like the look of the new section northbound from Moffat to Carnwath :thumbsup:
I won't be doing this LEL but I'll adopt that bit into my London-Arbroath route in June (avoiding the dreaded B7076 ::-)).
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Quite a few new bits, starting about 30km in, with a few different north and southbound sections, plus differences to 2017, for instance to / from Louth.