Promotion of a Sportive – A Debate

[Mad Jack]

First I've seen of it. If people genuinely are bored or uninterested, I guess they don't reply. Then the thread falls down and off the page and it gets buried. I just don't bother with things I'm not interested in.

Congratulations - you've just bumped the thread back up the list.

Well. You're hardly helping!

Oh bugger! now look what you made me do.

I'll keep shtum if you will.

Hey TG how's it going! 

[border-rider]

Why not just separate Audax & Sportive into 2 different area of the forum ? Lets face it, this is really an Audax board.

There was a fairly long debate (or two) back in the mists of time on this.  The consensus was to have a joint board, mainly because as others said CS traffic alone is not enough to have a dedicated board.

I suppose that if it picks up it could be re-looked at, but TBH it's the the audax traffic that has gone through the roof in the years since.

[YahudaMoon]

I ve nothing against Kidsscan personally. Though what worries me is WHY is Kidscan posting so much promotional stuff ?

Is it REALLY for a good cause or is it that there is money to be made for people who work for Kidsscan ? Some of these charities have management who earn big money.

If this is the case then there's no room here for that kind of marketing. SPAM !

If this ain't the case and it's for a charity where all the work is voluntary and there's no payed wages within the organisation then fare play, post as much as ya like

I asked Kidscan if there's a payed wage within the organisation though I got no reply

[YahudaMoon]

Well heres the main team at Kidscan. Do they work voluntry or are they on a paid wage ?

KidsCan,
Cockcroft Building,
University of Salford,
Salford M5 4WT

Tel: 0161 295 3864
Fax: 0161 295 5111

Email the team

Holly Bond - Fundraising Office Manager

Pam Turnbull - Business Development Manager

Chris Swinton - Community and Events Fundraiser

Daniel Webster - Student Fundraiser

Kathryn Harrison - Finance and Admin Assistant

[Bendy Bianchi]

KidsCan,

Please PM me with a copy of Kidscans latest audited financial accounts so we can assess how much of the entry fee actually goes to charity.

thanks

Well heres the main team at Kidscan. Do they work voluntry or are they on a paid wage ?

KidsCan,
Cockcroft Building,
University of Salford,
Salford M5 4WT

Tel: 0161 295 3864
Fax: 0161 295 5111

Email the team

Holly Bond - Fundraising Office Manager

Pam Turnbull - Business Development Manager

Chris Swinton - Community and Events Fundraiser

Daniel Webster - Student Fundraiser

Kathryn Harrison - Finance and Admin Assistant

[Martin]

Chris from Kidscan has posted 28 times on YACF. 27 of these posts were to promote his events. That in itself bothers me a touch, as this is a forum, not a listings page.

is it? the fact that most sportive riders have long since left may explain the lack of interest or replies. I'm sure I've made at least 27 posts to promote my Audax events; is the fact that a few people have replied any more deserving of me being on here?

+1 to "give the guy a break"; otherwise please start a sportive board so you can all ignore it (if you can  )

Why not just separate Audax & Sportive into 2 different area of the forum ? Lets face it, this is really an Audax board.

........then why are there Sportif ride reports in Arrivee ?

guilty M'Lud; I put a Vatternrundan report in it because I think it's a good event for an Audaxer to do. Some UK sportives may well be too; only done one and it's never liely to be repeated.

[Bendy Bianchi]

No need, I found the info. In the 2009 financial year they took in £184k and paid out £102k in payroll with a total cost base of £135k. So of every £1 entry fee then circa 60p goes straight down the toilet on costs.

Of the remaining £50k a further £21k was paid to the university of salford to also pay someones wages there.

KidsCan,

Please PM me with a copy of Kidscans latest audited financial accounts so we can assess how much of the entry fee actually goes to charity.

thanks

Well heres the main team at Kidscan. Do they work voluntry or are they on a paid wage ?

KidsCan,
Cockcroft Building,
University of Salford,
Salford M5 4WT

Tel: 0161 295 3864
Fax: 0161 295 5111

Email the team

Holly Bond - Fundraising Office Manager

Pam Turnbull - Business Development Manager

Chris Swinton - Community and Events Fundraiser

Daniel Webster - Student Fundraiser

Kathryn Harrison - Finance and Admin Assistant

[AndyH]

I don't think they are just picking on us
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12763666
Danial had it right - simply a marketing activity, what's the bet all the posts are in office hours?

[Martin]

No need, I found the info. In the 2009 financial year they took in £184k and paid out £102k in payroll with a total cost base of £135k. So of every £1 entry fee then circa 60p goes straight down the toilet on costs.

very good; you found someone who organises bike rides (among other things I imagine)for charity and doesn't do all the admin for free; are you going to apply the same policy to all other sportives (where often the website doesn't even tell you the name of the person taking your money)

Honestly; if we are going to be so sniffy about anything that does not follow the AUK / CTC volunteer ethos please do put up a sportive board

[teethgrinder]

I find it funny that people are getting upset about someone, maybe even some commercial body coming onto a cycling forum to promote a cycling event. Is this not a cycling forum?
It's not a ride I fancy, but so what, someone might like to have a go. Probably a very good ride and a good day out for some.
I think it's even funnier when I consider the amount of this forum that is directly unrelated to cycling. How dare someone promote a cycle event on a cycling forum, now let's go and talk about what we ate for dinner. 
Surely if they are causing a problem by swamping the frum then the moderators can step in?

IMO cycling is all good, whether it's a mass produced event that makes a rich man even richer, or a low key Audax permanent.
If you don't like, there's bound to be something around that you do. Can't please all the people all the time...

[teethgrinder]

I must also commend KidsCan on his/her excellent foresight, as the title of the thread now seems most apt.

[MSeries]

I must also commend KidsCan on his/her excellent foresight, as the title of the thread now seems most apt.

he's not debating though is he ?  A simple message announcing the event would have been preferred.

[DrMekon]

Yeah, I suspected he was spamming forums. I wonder if they have a search engine optimisation person on staff..

To reiterate, I have nothing against commercial rides being promoted - it's the fake "riddle me this batman" bs that is getting on my nerves. It's like having a bot in a chatroom.

[DanialW]

I'm sure I've made at least 27 posts to promote my Audax events; is the fact that a few people have replied any more deserving of me being on here?

No, it doesn't. But the fact that you contribute to lots of other debates does. You contribute to the energy of the forum, rather than simply leeching it for professional gain.

[Martin]

I'm sure I've made at least 27 posts to promote my Audax events; is the fact that a few people have replied any more deserving of me being on here?

No, it doesn't. But the fact that you contribute to lots of other debates does. You contribute to the energy of the forum, rather than simply leeching it for professional gain.

fair enough;

out of interest is there any censorship on who gets on here? I know some proper spammers have been kicked off

[Alouicious]

Don't knock KidsCan....

How much of the 27,000 x £31 that the London to Brighton brings in.... goes to Charity?

How much of the 240 x £5 that a 100km Audax brings to the organiser.... goes to Charity?

[Bendy Bianchi]

And likewise, I concur. I have nothing against sportives at all, indeed I often do one. But I do hate spam. Any one who spams should be hung upside down by the gonads till they say sorry.

Yeah, I suspected he was spamming forums. I wonder if they have a search engine optimisation person on staff..

To reiterate, I have nothing against commercial rides being promoted - it's the fake "riddle me this batman" bs that is getting on my nerves. It's like having a bot in a chatroom.

[AndyH]

Don't knock KidsCan....

How much of the 27,000 x £31 that the London to Brighton brings in.... goes to Charity?

How much of the 240 x £5 that a 100km Audax brings to the organiser.... goes to Charity?

I'm not knocking kidscan for their charity work (about which I know nothing and am not qualified to comment) or the quality of their events (again I'm not qualified to comment)

However if you do a google search on "Re: Promotion of a Sportive – A Debate" http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Promotion+of+a+Sportive+%E2%80%93+A+Debate
you'll see the same post on Bikeradar, Manchester wheelers, YACF, the CTC forum and Cyclosport. Is this not effectively spam ?

[jogler]

It appears that Kidscan use the cyle forums for free advertising/marketing.

[Manotea]

The problem is business ethics not the business objective or model.

Playing people as idiots is not a way to win friends.

[Bendy Bianchi]

I'm the moderator of a hedgefund forum, if someone took this spam-esque approach on that forum they would be barred in an instant. It's unwanted, unprofessional and against the spirit of the forum.

[Jaded]

Don't knock KidsCan....

How much of the 27,000 x £31 that the London to Brighton brings in.... goes to Charity?

How much of the 240 x £5 that a 100km Audax brings to the organiser.... goes to Charity?

Is this a serious question - it is hard to tell?

[BlackSheep]

There's over seventeen and a half thousand topics on this forum. Why's this one causing so much excitement?

OK he maybe spam-ing, but it's no worse than the self-promotion that many of you are also guilty of.

If you don't ask - you don't get, and you only get by keeping in the focus of peoples attention.

If there are other issues, such as the final destination of monies, this is not your concern - you make your choice, and pay your money.

I can think of far worse cases of social hi-jacking, either put your stones down - or get out of the greenhouse.

[Aidan]

It's not the fact that they are promoting the Sportive , its the way in which it is being done.   A promotion dressed up as a topic to start a debate, then not debating, and not contributing anything else to the forum.  Indeed exactly the same post has been made across other fora , as has been shown , which in itself qualifies it as spam.

Many others do promote their events here, but are also active members of the forum which I find acceptable.

If the OP had been a straight promotional post , it would have attracted less attention also.


For me the following three quotes sum up how I feel about it.  The rights , wrongs or otherwise of the charity, and what actually goes to charity are irrellevant

No, it doesn't. But the fact that you contribute to lots of other debates does. You contribute to the energy of the forum, rather than simply leeching it for professional gain.

To reiterate, I have nothing against commercial rides being promoted - it's the fake "riddle me this batman" bs that is getting on my nerves. It's like having a bot in a chatroom.

he's not debating though is he ?  A simple message announcing the event would have been preferred.

[Billy Weir]

25 April 2011.

Down to Downs 100km audax.

Edenbridge start.