AUK 1000 CLUB

[3peaker]

This thread seems to have gone quiet; possibly because it is small and takes a dedicated effort to even contemplate joining.

That celebratory beer tasted better after my latest 200. My Perm version of one of late Ron Carlton’s Cheltenham Flyer 200s. In this Topic, the reason is obvious. (STR) I have joined this illustrious Club.

The Flyer is nostalgic to me: it is local; one of my first Calendar rides (1992); one of my earlier Perms and I took over from Ron as Flyer Calendar Organiser in 2012. Cannot claim any time records for 1000 points (1982-2016!); that surely goes to bikeymikey of (same Club) ACB.

I read above about reasons for going for 1000. Quite simply it is a terrific incentive for a decent ride. I have also road raced and my PB TT times are a matter of record. Audax is just great for maintaining the passion for a different form of competitive cycling, where finishing is what matters with just a touch of pressure from the clock. It is also a pleasure to enjoy the countryside, rather than chasing wheels.

Next target? Now it is a matter of maintaining RRTY and retaining fitness and form for another LEL.

[HK]

Quote from: Nuncio on November 08, 2012, 10:29:49 AM
And since he's not on the forum so still maybe unknown to some, here's some  biographical AUK detail on Dave.  He's an ultra-randonneur, 6 time PBP finisher, 3 time LEL finisher (I think),  four time male AUK champion and ex AAA champion.  He's probably in the top 2 or 3 all-time AUK points accumulators.

One of only 8 riders to have exceeded 1000 points:

1: steven abraham: 2003
2: peter turnbull: 1743
3: david lewis: 1557
4: john barkman: 1158
5: peter mennicke: 1152
6: richard phipps: 1140
7: jack eason: 1046
8: george hanna: 1025

______________________________________________________________________________________
The above is taken from the devastating news of Dave Lewis' illness.  But what Nuncio has opened up is a potential area of knowledge that I feel needs and should receive a wider appreciation. Discussion has started to 'contest' Nuncio's findings; but what it does suggest is that data is available that could be refined and an accurate list of our high achievers can be published (in Handbook?) and recognised. I am not on the lists with a lowly mid-750s total. But that provides me with a challenge to join 'The 1000 Club', surely a very worthy body of men and women. And how correct to hear that Dave Lewis was (probably) the first chap to exceed the 1000.

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. If the Marmite Queen ever catches up with you, you are in deep trouble.

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed. This has already been discussed and most of the AUKs found, more than 8 for the records and retrospective trophies given out. There is also more than one lady on the list.

[3peaker]

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. If the Marmite Queen ever catches up with you, you are in deep trouble.

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed. This has already been discussed and most of the AUKs found, more than 8 for the records and retrospective trophies given out. There is also more than one lady on the list.

That list was by Nuncio not me. I am quite aware of and delighted how Committee research resulted in the Awards at last AGM; I attended. I had compiled my own 1000 ‘presumptive’ list of 14 riders and based on website-available data, yourself but not Marmite Queen included (most of her (assuming I interpret who you mean?) results were pre-website). I declared my list to Recorder within the Committee.

[Danu]

Steve, does that mean those of us who achieved awards or would today qualify for them are deemed worthless as they were not recorded on the web

[HK]

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. If the Marmite Queen ever catches up with you, you are in deep trouble.

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed. This has already been discussed and most of the AUKs found, more than 8 for the records and retrospective trophies given out. There is also more than one lady on the list.

That list was by Nuncio not me. I am quite aware of and delighted how Committee research resulted in the Awards at last AGM; I attended. I had compiled my own 1000 ‘presumptive’ list of 14 riders and based on website-available data, yourself but not Marmite Queen included (most of her (assuming I interpret who you mean?) results were pre-website). I declared my list to Recorder within the Committee.

Firstly why are you duplicating work that has already been done and caused grief because pre 1999 data wasn't used?  If you're really interested in this volunteering to help put the pre 1999 data into the data base would be most useful.

Plus, publishing other people's lists using incomplete data is dangerous. Those who have done the riding but get left off are made unhappy.

If you want to see this as a official award, like RUSAs Galaxy award, make a proposal at the AGM.

[HK]

Steve, does that mean those of us who achieved awards or would today qualify for them are deemed worthless as they were not recorded on the web

Certainly not. The majority of AUK aware recognise this problem and can be claimed retrospectively. Although this isn't an official award, the back dated claim can be implemented.

The current problem is that there aren't volunteers to put the pre 1999 data into the website. Plus the very well intentioned person who drew up the boards list which was wrong wasn't an old hand so unaware of who was riding before electronic records and so couldn't check.

Strangle those of us pre electronic records keep our own.

[postie]

It looked to me like all riders from pre 2000 were left off the list basically.

[Delph Cyclist]

Although this isn't an official award ...

... that may change in the not-to-distant future.  I'm on 754 points so my aim is to join that list by my 65th birthday.

There is a more up-to-date list somewhere, which will include those who were presented with the 100,000k award at the AGM, so I'll try and find out who has that and get it included on the website somewhere.

My own palmares includes 14 points from pre-computer days, so I'm hoping I can find those Brevet Cards in due course for my claim.  I've seen some of the copies of the pre-2000 results sheets, and they are just non-searchable images of handwritten finish lists.  Who would have known back then that we would be searching the entire scope of human knowledge on hand-held devices.  We'd only just thrown the quill pens away.

While it's no doubt feasible to get those results onto the database, I can't see that the immense work load would have more than a minimum benefit - except to the people involved of course (translation: I'm not volunteering to do it!) 

[Peter]

While it's no doubt feasible to get those results onto the database, I can't see that the immense work load would have more than a minimum benefit - except to the people involved of course (translation: I'm not volunteering to do it!)

Yes, nobody else needs to know about these things!


(Sent from my stone tablet)

[HK]

While it's no doubt feasible to get those results onto the database, I can't see that the immense work load would have more than a minimum benefit - except to the people involved of course (translation: I'm not volunteering to do it!)

Because it's a major part of our history and therefore not just for the purposes of working out ride tallys should be kept in an accessible and safe form rather than on pieces of paper.

It's 50 years this year since the first Brit rode PBP rando. I kmow who it is but how many other people do?  What happens when those that know these things aren't there any longer?

Yes, nobody else needs to know about these things!


(Sent from my stone tablet)

[HK]

Delphi Cyclist. Are you putting your hand up to put forward the 100,000km of brevets (needs a decent name like the RUSA award has) award at the next AGM to become official?  It needs to be done.

[jsabine]

Quote from: Nuncio on November 08, 2012, 10:29:49 AM

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. [...]

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed.

<small voice>
HK, on this point you're responding to a post made almost four years ago.

Because it's a major part of our history and therefore not just for the purposes of working out ride tallys should be kept in an accessible and safe form rather than on pieces of paper.

Actually, for archival purposes there's little to beat paper. Crap for searching unless it's been well indexed, but excellent longevity - and the data can be retrieved by the Mk1 eyeball, which struggles with punched cards or Winchesters.

It's 50 years this year since the first Brit rode PBP rando. I kmow who it is but how many other people do?  What happens when those that know these things aren't there any longer?

I wasn't certain, but the AUK history page says it was Barry Parslow on a trike. Axel Koenig's site lets you search the rest of his PBP rides, and suggests that there were *almost* earlier UK riders - apparently a Ms Gill (no forename recorded) and one George Henry Williams entered in 1951, but did not start - anyone know anything of them?

Smart-arsed debating-style responses from me aside, we're probably pretty good on the broad-brush legends about the founding of AUK and the earliest rides and riders, but undoubtedly weaker on the detail (and probably on many of the facts - I bet some of them have been changed in the interests of a better story). But a proper, detailed history could have lots of interest, though doubtless the balance between stats and stories could be a challenge to get right. You'd be a good person for any researcher to speak to, obviously - might be worth you retelling some of the stories you've heard in this sort of context as well, to help ensure they've reached a wider audience. I'm sure the peanut gallery would be suitably appreciative ...

[mattc]

The Wiki pages for audax and AUK have always been a bit sparse. Wikipedia is a good place for history (as opposed to a database of searchable data).

It would be nice (for the world of Audax/rando) to expand the Wikipedia pages, and they are free for anyone (even those outside the AUK board!) to update quickly; so perhaps those with the passion and knowledge could kill two birds with one stone there?

[HK]

Quote from: Nuncio on November 08, 2012, 10:29:49 AM

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. [...]

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed.

<small voice>
HK, on this point you're responding to a post made almost four years ago.

Because it's a major part of our history and therefore not just for the purposes of working out ride tallys should be kept in an accessible and safe form rather than on pieces of paper.

Actually, for archival purposes there's little to beat paper. Crap for searching unless it's been well indexed, but excellent longevity - and the data can be retrieved by the Mk1 eyeball, which struggles with punched cards or Winchesters.

It's 50 years this year since the first Brit rode PBP rando. I kmow who it is but how many other people do?  What happens when those that know these things aren't there any longer?

I wasn't certain, but the AUK history page says it was Barry Parslow on a trike. Axel Koenig's site lets you search the rest of his PBP rides, and suggests that there were *almost* earlier UK riders - apparently a Ms Gill (no forename recorded) and one George Henry Williams entered in 1951, but did not start - anyone know anything of them?

Smart-arsed debating-style responses from me aside, we're probably pretty good on the broad-brush legends about the founding of AUK and the earliest rides and riders, but undoubtedly weaker on the detail (and probably on many of the facts - I bet some of them have been changed in the interests of a better story). But a proper, detailed history could have lots of interest, though doubtless the balance between stats and stories could be a challenge to get right. You'd be a good person for any researcher to speak to, obviously - might be worth you retelling some of the stories you've heard in this sort of context as well, to help ensure they've reached a wider audience. I'm sure the peanut gallery would be suitably appreciative ...

I'm aware that the original post was made four years ago that Mr Speaker quotes. It is therefore bad form to quote it again, particularly as a lot of this was sorted out last year. If Mr Speaker had paid attention he would have known this and would have obtained a much better list from the official page of the website. I know strange place for it to live but that's where it is.

Yes paper has longevity as the master soures. But as someone who deals with data day in day out paper isn't the best way of manipulating data - that's what you are wanting to do. Plus handeling paper causes it to degrade - I see a lot of records like that.

To the best of my knowledge the 1966 PBP was ridden by Barry on two wheels. The trike came later. Also I'm pretty sure he was the first. I'll go find him on a Marlboro AC club run and ask.

[HK]

The Wiki pages for audax and AUK have always been a bit sparse. Wikipedia is a good place for history (as opposed to a database of searchable data).

It would be nice (for the world of Audax/rando) to expand the Wikipedia pages, and they are free for anyone (even those outside the AUK board!) to update quickly; so perhaps those with the passion and knowledge could kill two birds with one stone there?

It's done simply hidden within this forum - LWaB has written it and does keep it up dated.

[Delph Cyclist]

Delphi Cyclist. Are you putting your hand up to put forward the 100,000km of brevets (needs a decent name like the RUSA award has) award at the next AGM to become official?  It needs to be done.

Yes.  In fact, it's already in progress, although I'm not sure if it is a Randonneur award (they tend to be for season-long achievements) or a Brevet award which are for an extended time span.  I also quite like the idea of a Randonnee Round the World (or a Brevet 40,000km, or 400 AUK points) to signify the approximate circumference of the Earth.  I've nearly gone round twice now.

Incidentally, I don't know who put the awards on Wikipedia but it's an excellent summary of what could seem to be a confusing mixture.   Is that LWaB's work?

[HK]

Delphi Cyclist. Are you putting your hand up to put forward the 100,000km of brevets (needs a decent name like the RUSA award has) award at the next AGM to become official?  It needs to be done.

Yes.  In fact, it's already in progress, although I'm not sure if it is a Randonneur award (they tend to be for season-long achievements) or a Brevet award which are for an extended time span.  I also quite like the idea of a Randonnee Round the World (or a Brevet 40,000km, or 400 AUK points) to signify the approximate circumference of the Earth.  I've nearly gone round twice now.

Incidentally, I don't know who put the awards on Wikipedia but it's an excellent summary of what could seem to be a confusing mixture.   Is that LWaB's work?

Brilliant. Need any help give me a shout. Happy to second the proposal.

Don't care what type of award it is providing it's there. What's the plan for multiple offenders?  There's at least one and a few more coming along.

I'm not fessing up to my randonneuring laps around the world.

[mattc]

Incidentally, I don't know who put the awards on Wikipedia but it's an excellent summary of what could seem to be a confusing mixture.   Is that LWaB's work?

Yes, that table format is much easier to digest than the plain text in the AUK regs. Good work.

(I tried to read the Wiki "revisions History" - or whatever its called - but couldnt get near learning who did the last significant update       )

[phil d]

I'm aware that the original post was made four years ago that Mr Speaker quotes. It is therefore bad form to quote it again, particularly as a lot of this was sorted out last year. If Mr Speaker had paid attention he would have known this and would have obtained a much better list from the official page of the website. I know strange place for it to live but that's where it is.

I've looked again at 3speaker's July 30th post, and note that he doesn't quote the original list, which at the time he posted it, he acknowledged was quite likely deficient; it seems he was merely flagging up the worthiness of the achievement, which few would deny.  The more recent posting appears to me to be encouraging more to work towards the achievement, which again, I'm sure few would disagree with.

I think you are being unduly harsh.

[3peaker]

Although this isn't an official award ...

... that may change in the not-to-distant future. 
There is a more up-to-date list somewhere, which will include those who were presented with the 100,000k award at the AGM, so I'll try and find out who has that and get it included on the website somewhere.

I've seen some of the copies of the pre-2000 results sheets, and they are just non-searchable images of handwritten finish lists.  Who would have known back then that we would be searching
the entire scope of human knowledge on hand-held devices.  We'd only just thrown the quill pens away.

While it's no doubt feasible to get those results onto the database, I can't see that the immense work load would have more than a minimum benefit - except to the people involved of course (translation: I'm not volunteering to do it!)

Anyone who has pre-computer records and is interested could easily be invited through email/Arrivee to submit their supportive data. I note that such rides as LEL & PBP attract a yearly points minimum and are listed.

When I raised this topic, many contributors seem to have encouraged the Award which was made to several at last AGM. I have now joined the exalted ‘1000 Club’ ranks (I have pre-2000 Brevets to prove if anyone asks). After my last post there was some unfounded acrimony and I contacted the Committee Rep (Recorder) for guidance on creating an official list. Not yet in the Hall of Fame? I note the 2015 update has not been loaded there either. Perhaps this note might prompt further action as we enter the ‘quieter (for some)’ period.

[Somnolent]

... Not yet in the Hall of Fame? I note the 2015 update has not been loaded there either.

In fact, it's already in progress,

"In progress" means just that.

Perhaps this note might prompt further action as we enter the ‘quieter (for some)’ period. 

Quieter period for riding maybe... but some Board members are (or have recently been) up to their elbows in the 'end of season' stuff at the moment, and that will shortly be followed (for Delph Cyclist and his team) by the Membership renewal process...

[frankly frankie]

It would be nice (for the world of Audax/rando) to expand the Wikipedia pages, and they are free for anyone (even those outside the AUK board!) to update quickly; so perhaps those with the passion and knowledge could kill two birds with one stone there?

The trouble with Wikipedia is that when someone with the passion and knowledge crafts a nice survey of what AUK and randonneuring is all about, someone else with equal passion and knowledge comes along and trashes the whole thing with their own take on it.  DAHIKT.

Hmm where to start.
AUK badly needs an Archivist (I'm not volunteering).  This is not the same thing as the Recorder, who is mainly concerned with maintaining the current results.
The number of people around who actually go back to riding audaxes in the '70s, and are still compos mentis and so could separate myth from fact, is getting very small.  Fortunately a few of them did start quite young (by modern audax standards) and so do still have their marbles, and at least 3 of these are occasional contributors on yacf.

1000 Club - I haven't seen a list but I would imagine that, apart from recent additions (joined this year) it must be pretty complete.  To achieve this you either have to be a more-than-averagely active randonneur for a very, very long time, like 3peaker - or you have to be a prodigiously-active rider over a shorter period, like the afore-mentioned regal yeast extract addict.  (It was I who first gave her that title by the way - but not to her face and I understand she doesn't much like it.)  Either category of rider must be pretty well-known and easy to spot as a 'suspect', I'd think.

Regarding old (pre-2000) ride records - a touching faith in paper has been shown upthread but all this stuff has long since been recycled.  However not before it was scanned.  All the old (handwritten, sometimes illegible) organisers' event results sheets exist as images - but not as yet online (total file size around 2Gb).  The Recorder has a set of these scans and so do I, apart from a few documented gaps they are very complete, so that any member or non-member claim dated between September '87 and December 2007 can, with a bit of trouble, be verified from these.  No detailed records exist before September '87 and people old enough to have been around at that time will probaably understand why.  Also there are no known detailed Permanents records before the 2000 season.

Databasing old records - to prevent anyone putting time into stuff that has already been done - some old summary information is known and a small amount of this has already been databased.  As 3peaker points out, anyone known to have completed PBP in a given year, can be credited with a minimum of 27 points straight off.  So for example anyone known to have ridden PBPs in '83, '87, '91, '95, '99 (Jim Hopper, Sheila Simpson, Karl Hrouda) has at least 135 points from the pre-2000 period (obviously actually many more, but 135 can be verified by this means).  We do already have a data table of all known (A)UK PBP finishers, with years.
Similarly we have as data all known SRs with years going right back to 1979 (the year SR was invented, as a PBP qualification tool) - Jim with his 36 SR years so far can be credited with 540 points without even looking any deeper.  The data does not include multiple SRs within a season however, nor can this information easily be retrieved now, for the period before 2000.

Other stuff we don't have and could usefully add (from paper archives, eg old Arrivees etc):
100-point and 50-point lists, these exist in paper form (Arrivees, Handbooks) back to the early '90s. 
Championship totals - from these totals alone, none of them currently held in data form, Liz Creese is shown as being 'in the club' as early as 1996.
Unfortunately a lot of 'near-miss' championship runners-up are not documented at all.
Maybe a few known and documented BMB, PAP, Le-Jog rides could be taken into account.

[Nuncio]

May I reiterate that your list is wrong. If the Marmite Queen ever catches up with you, you are in deep trouble.

Perhaps you should keep yourself up to speed. This has already been discussed and most of the AUKs found, more than 8 for the records and retrospective trophies given out. There is also more than one lady on the list.

That list was by Nuncio not me. I am quite aware of and delighted how Committee research resulted in the Awards at last AGM; I attended. I had compiled my own 1000 ‘presumptive’ list of 14 riders and based on website-available data, yourself but not Marmite Queen included (most of her (assuming I interpret who you mean?) results were pre-website). I declared my list to Recorder within the Committee.

I'd just like to point out that I did not compile or even post that list.  This is the post you quoted to start this thread  https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=65037.msg1351822#msg1351822, and to which you added the list in question.

[wilkyboy]

Hmm - that made me go to the AUK results pages - 513 to date mainly in last 6 years - 39 only in 4 years before that - so roughly 80 a year  - still needs another 6 years riding  --  keeping that motivated for that long -- with time running out ..

no ... not possible ..

Pity - as at first glance it sounded a decent challenge

It's still within your grasp Rog — I reckon you have another 12 years at single-RRTY pace, but throw in SRs, a double-RRTY and the occasional PBP or LEL and you could easily bring that down to three or four   

[Somnolent]

Databasing old records - to prevent anyone putting time into stuff that has already been done - some old summary information is known and a small amount of this has already been databased.  As 3peaker points out, anyone known to have completed PBP in a given year, can be credited with a minimum of 27 points straight off.  So for example anyone known to have ridden PBPs in '83, '87, '91, '95, '99 (Jim Hopper, Sheila Simpson, Karl Hrouda) has at least 135 points from the pre-2000 period (obviously actually many more, but 135 can be verified by this means).  We do already have a data table of all known (A)UK PBP finishers, with years.
Similarly we have as data all known SRs with years going right back to 1979 (the year SR was invented, as a PBP qualification tool) - Jim with his 36 SR years so far can be credited with 540 points without even looking any deeper.  The data does not include multiple SRs within a season however, nor can this information easily be retrieved now, for the period before 2000.

Other stuff we don't have and could usefully add (from paper archives, eg old Arrivees etc):
100-point and 50-point lists, these exist in paper form (Arrivees, Handbooks) back to the early '90s. 
Championship totals - from these totals alone, none of them currently held in data form, Liz Creese is shown as being 'in the club' as early as 1996.
Unfortunately a lot of 'near-miss' championship runners-up are not documented at all.
Maybe a few known and documented BMB, PAP, Le-Jog rides could be taken into account.

Is very much the approach that has been taken so far for those who started pre-2000.
Have we got everybody?   Quite possibly not.
But searching the 1987 - 2000 scanned paper event results sheets is only possible if the rider (or their nearest & dearest) has records of which rides they completed before 2000; and even then is a time-consuming task.