Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: velosam on 22 September, 2020, 04:41:59 pm

Title: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: velosam on 22 September, 2020, 04:41:59 pm
I dont have one as I never used it before. However my house is costs a fortune to heat and having damp clothes around in winter is rubbish.

I am fortunate enough to be able to wash clothes when its dry and can hang stuff outside. However I have been offered a drier as a present and wonder if I should get one?

Thoughts and advice please

I know that they cost another £60-£70 in elec consumption.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 22 September, 2020, 04:44:33 pm

From an environmental stand point, I'd say not a good idea.

J
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: BrianI on 22 September, 2020, 04:46:56 pm
I'd say its worth it.

I replaced my old washer dryer, with a separate washing machine & tumble dryer.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Greenbank on 22 September, 2020, 04:57:20 pm
We run a dehumidifier in our flat for about 1/3 of the time over the winter. That costs us about £50 or so in electricity[1], plus any spare heat it outputs is not wasted as that just means the heating needs to do less work.

Living in a house converted into flats means the ventilation is nowhere near good enough. Such flats weren't designed to have clothes dried inside and the ventilation routes that would have been present in the original house all get blocked up as the place is partitioned up. Even without clothes drying inside the flat we often get condensation on the windows just from the 3 of us that live here.

If we ever get our place refurbished (new wiring -> replastering -> redecoration) I'll get the builders to sort out the ventilation so the place can breathe better.

From an environmental stand point, I'd say not a good idea.

If the alternative is heating/drying a whole house to the point that clothes dry properly in it then a drier may be the more environmentally option. Of course, insulating and improving air-flow is the real correct answer, but that might be £000's rather than £00's.

Personally I'd just go for a dehumidifier next to an airer full of damp clothes just because it can kill two birds with one stone as we need a dehumidifier anyway (I can't run a tumble drier to remove damp from my flat).

Tumble driers are a huge cause of house fires too.

1. UK rule of thumb is 1W for an entire year costs roughly £1. So a 400W dehumidifier on for 8 hours a day for 5 months a year =~ £55.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: rogerzilla on 22 September, 2020, 05:10:49 pm
£60-80 is rubbish, unless you have a large family and/or use it every time.  I use mine when I can't hang stuff out, for about 100 minutes on low heat (1.5kW, I think)  That's about 40p a week, 26 weeks a year.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Canardly on 22 September, 2020, 05:15:36 pm
Had one for years and would  not be without.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Diver300 on 22 September, 2020, 05:26:51 pm
The heat-pump dryers are significantly more efficient than either vented or regular condensing dryers.

Heat-pump dryers don't need any plumbing, or a vent, but it's convenient to have a drain so you don't need to keep emptying the water container. They are heavier and more expensive than the other types, but there is much less risk of fluff catching fire in one.

A heat-pump dryer is basically a dehumidifier in a box, and the air circulates through that and the drum. As with a dehumidifier, all the water ends up in the container or the drain, so you don't get any problem of moisture in the room.

We've had a Beko one for about 8 years now. It just works. The only issue was when we had it on carpet, it wasn't getting rid of all of its heat as it turned out to need some ventilation under the sides, and the carpet was blocking it. It put is on some blocks to raise it a cm or so.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 22 September, 2020, 07:44:07 pm
Wot Greenbank said, get a decent dehumidifier.
Advantages;
Less wear on clothes
Generally less moisture in the home from breathing, cooking etc
You can move it if there's somewhere you're having particular trouble with.
If your house is already a bit moist you will find that you don't need the stat on your heating set so high as you will feel warmer in drier air.
You can shove it in storage when you don't need it in the summer if storage is an issue.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 22 September, 2020, 07:50:47 pm
We have both. Our last house had an airing cupboard which I specified when we built it. The new house does t. It it does have an unheated cupboard for keeping clerical vestments in.
I have a very small dimpled on a thermostat and a dehumidifier with a humidity setting. It runs on when we put damp clothes, boots, garden cushions in and otherwise is on standby most of the time. Commuting becomes a real pleasure when you know clothes and boots will be warm and dry at 6:00am in February!

If you need clothes drying and living quarters dried then I would thoroughly recommend a dehumidifier.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Ruthie on 22 September, 2020, 08:06:18 pm
I love my drier. Wouldn’t be without it. So much better than damp musty clothes and a damp musty home.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Feanor on 22 September, 2020, 08:08:22 pm
Would not do without a drier.

A dehumidifier does work well to dry clothes ( we have one in the kit drying room at work ), but I don't have a drying room at home where I can rack out wet kit and let it de-humidify to dry, and I'm not really interested in having drying racks set up in my living space.

The drier gets the job done in short order, taking up the space of a standard 600mm base unit in the small utility room.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: velosam on 22 September, 2020, 08:42:08 pm
Thanks all food for thought.

I like the idea of a dehumidifier.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: rogerzilla on 23 September, 2020, 08:52:31 am
As running costs are low if there is one or two of you, capital and repair costs are important.  A vented dryer is cheap and usually very reliable.  A condenser, being far more complex, is neither.  The energy ratings for the two are not comparable and make condenser dryers look better than they are: a vented dryer will use about 80% of the energy of a non-heat pump condenser dryer.

The main disadvantage of a vented dryer is that you need a hole through the wall for a neat installation.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: rafletcher on 23 September, 2020, 09:20:38 am
I would add that getting a washing machine with a decent spin speed - ours tops out at 1400 rpm - can make quite a difference to the moisture remaining in clothes post-wash. In winter we'll spin twice - we don't have a dryer (no space for one, and I don't like combined washer-dryers for reliability reasons) so will often have stuff on the radiators when it's no good for outdoor drying. Not a major issue as it's a house (albeit a small one) with an open stair way off the living/dining area, so room for air movement. It also has leaky window and an open fireplace. More modern properties are of course more airtight.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 23 September, 2020, 10:20:33 am
We've never had issues using a dehumidifier and spare room. Put the stuff out, turn on dehumidifier*. Usually takes a few hours, even in deepest darkest winter (in summer we can just open the windows). Requires space of course.

Probably no cheaper than a drier, but I find less faff.

*a proper condensing one.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Kim on 23 September, 2020, 01:48:30 pm
Typical 1890s terrace here.  Dying clothes indoors barely registers on my humidity graphs (it mostly comes down to weather, central heating, showering and which doors and windows are open where).  Borrowed a dehumidifier for a bit, and it barely made a difference, either.

That said, if you've got a damp problem in a less draughty house, not drying clothes will probably help.

Personally, I only see the point in driers if you're dealing with industrial quantities of laundry.  Eg. Maybe if someone's incontinent, or you've got a dog-washing or haberdashery business, or far too many children.  And if you do, you probably can't afford the solar panels needed to make it an environmentally sensible proposition.  Or I suppose if you've got an autistic person who needs the stiffness beaten out of fabrics before wearing them.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: De Sisti on 23 September, 2020, 01:49:03 pm
I have a Creda Reservoir Sensory System tumble dryer, purchased in 1990*. During its ownership,
essential maintenance has been the replacement of a rubber pulley for the drum and a new condenser.

The pulley was less than £10 and the condenser was about £28. Replacing the condenser was
easier than I thought, courtesy of a youtube video.


*£149
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: grams on 23 September, 2020, 02:05:22 pm
I live in a tiny flat where there’s nowhere sensible to put an airer that isn’t completely in the way*. A washer/drier is a magical machine that turns dirty clothes into clean clothes.

(* that isn’t already filled with bicycles and bicycle accessories)
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 23 September, 2020, 02:12:46 pm

I have a drying rack that hangs over the front of the bedroom door. I then have a broom handle between two sets of shelves across the doorway to the living room.

Most stuff goes on the door rack, but trousers and cycle kit hangs from hangers on the rail.

I live alone so it's no major issue to walk round the washing. The main issue is that my propensity for using hair sticks to hold my hair up, the bit that sticks out the end occasionally will catch on some small item of clothing as I walk into the bedroom, resulting in a pair of knickers hanging off your hair...

J
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 September, 2020, 02:21:37 pm
We have an ancient tumble drier which I object to using and a dehumidifier. I'm very careful about using the dehumidifier as well, as it's a stipulation of the 5year guarantee on the piano that the humidity in that room remains above 50%.

As long as the weather is reasonable, we hang stuff outside.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 23 September, 2020, 02:27:33 pm
I think that most of you live somewhere dry.

Ambient RH in York is frequently over 80%

Drying outside is something simply impractical for much of the year.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 23 September, 2020, 02:34:36 pm
I think that most of you live somewhere dry.

Ambient RH in York is frequently over 80%

Drying outside is something simply impractical for much of the year.

Humidity in my flat right now is 50.1%. But I live in a swamp...

J
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 23 September, 2020, 06:02:58 pm
In the mornings this week our bedroom has been reading high 70's %rh when I get up in the morning (we are not drying clothes indoors yet). It's getting cooler, I haven't turned the heating on yet, our double glazing has no trickle vents. All of the above probably not helped by the fact that I painted over our lath & lime plaster walls with an unbreatheable latex emulsion before I knew about such folly.  :facepalm:
I'd love to be able to rectify that but I suspect I can't without ripping all the plaster off the laths.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 23 September, 2020, 08:17:18 pm
On any given day, the RH in the Asbestos Palace is between 30-35%. I'm a big ventilation fan. I never thought I'd write that, but I am. We usually leave a few windows on the catch, even in winter (and there's an open chimney). I'm not convinced that unless an house is designed for it, that a 1960s era building should be hermetically sealed. Also, as you know, mould is my enemy. I will not fear the mould. I will offer no solace to the mould. For the mould is my enemy.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: hellymedic on 23 September, 2020, 09:31:22 pm
On any given day, the RH in the Asbestos Palace is between 30-35%. I'm a big ventilation fan. I never thought I'd write that, but I am. We usually leave a few windows on the catch, even in winter (and there's an open chimney). I'm not convinced that unless an house is designed for it, that a 1960s era building should be hermetically sealed. Also, as you know, mould is my enemy. I will not fear the mould. I will offer no solace to the mould. For the mould is my enemy.

The RH in my lounge is usually over 60%, dropping when the patio doors are opened on a dry day.
RH in the kitchen is about 10% less because fridge.

RH outdoors is currently ~80%; it is WET.

Piano keys a getting sticky and we have Dampp-Chaser installed. RH here seems to have increased enormously recently. I think it's mostly the weather.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 24 September, 2020, 09:31:09 am
Actually, it says 46% in the kitchen this morning, but the window is open and it's been raining all night. I should close it, it's chilly in there. The piano is electric so doesn't care about either.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: The French Tandem on 24 September, 2020, 10:04:19 am

From an environmental stand point, I'd say not a good idea.

J

From an energy consumption stand point, they are exactly neutral during the cold season. Every Joule spent in the drier is a Joule that would have been spent by the heating system of your house, have you chosen to let your clothes dry indoor naturally.

A
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 24 September, 2020, 10:08:43 am
Not if you're venting it outside.

(plus the efficiency of energy conversion in the drier).
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: grams on 24 September, 2020, 10:17:33 am
Not if you're venting it outside.

Or condensing it and sending it down the drain.

Quote
(plus the efficiency of energy conversion in the drier).

All energy consumed by an appliance is converted to heat with 100% efficiency. It's just that heat might not end up where you want it to be.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Diver300 on 24 September, 2020, 12:07:24 pm
Not if you're venting it outside.

Or condensing it and sending it down the drain.
If the condenser is air cooled, either directly or part of a heat-pump system, the heat doesn't go down the drain with the condensed water, as the water ends up near room temperature. The large amount of energy that is needed to make the water evaporate, the latent heat of evaporation, is recovered from the water into whatever it condenses on.

If a condensing tumble dryer is air cooled and not vented, all the electricity it uses will end up as heat in the room, which can be considered useful heat, but that will have come from electricity, which means more cost and usually more CO2 emissions than if the same amount of heat were generated by gas.

A vented or water cooled tumble drier will loose most of to the vent or the drain, so there will be little useful heat, and a vented one will be sucking room air out, which will be replaced by cold outside air.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 24 September, 2020, 12:11:42 pm
Is it, therefore, more efficient to simply turn up the heating and go naked? We're all in the lockdown and shouldn't be socializing anyway plus the postie has probably seen it all before.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Diver300 on 24 September, 2020, 12:57:11 pm
Is it, therefore, more efficient to simply turn up the heating and go naked? We're all in the lockdown and shouldn't be socializing anyway plus the postie has probably seen it all before.
Almost certainly not. Even if you can heat a room rather than a house, there will be a lot of heat loss. Heating a room will reduce the humidity, but you need some ventilation to actually get rid of the water.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: mcshroom on 24 September, 2020, 01:01:06 pm
Back to the OP, I never used a dryer until we got one last winter. Whether they are environmentally good or not, it's definitely convenient :)
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: geraldc on 24 September, 2020, 01:22:18 pm
Dryers are good if you live alone and only do your own clothes. If you also do other people's clothes you have to have self discipline, and don't do things half arsed. I specialise in doing things half arsed so they're now a nightmare for me. You really have to make sure you read labels, separate things properly, dry things with sticky out zips in pillow cases, delicate net things in pillow cases etc, and make sure you empty pockets. The biggest bollockings I've had from the other half were the times I put an expensive wool thing in the tumble dryer, and the numerous times rogue tissues have found their way into the dryer. When I was young and single, a dryer was what I used to dry t shirts and jeans, socks and pants, now older and married, a dryer to me is a machine for turning a pile of wet clothes into a pile of of warm damaged clothes covered in fluff and a quick way of a getting a bollocking.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: rafletcher on 24 September, 2020, 01:39:18 pm
Be thankful they've moved on a bit since the Zanussi washer / dryer that came with a flat I bought  some 40 (gulp!) years ago.  That could (and unfortunately did) get hot enough to scorch shirts! I rarely used it.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: velosam on 24 September, 2020, 03:36:37 pm
I am now thinking a heated clothes airer instead of a dryer - thoughts?
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: ian on 24 September, 2020, 03:38:15 pm
All that moisture has to go somewhere.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 24 September, 2020, 03:57:39 pm
We run a dehumidifier in our flat for about 1/3 of the time over the winter. That costs us about £50 or so in electricity[1], plus any spare heat it outputs is not wasted as that just means the heating needs to do less work.

Living in a house converted into flats means the ventilation is nowhere near good enough. Such flats weren't designed to have clothes dried inside and the ventilation routes that would have been present in the original house all get blocked up as the place is partitioned up. Even without clothes drying inside the flat we often get condensation on the windows just from the 3 of us that live here.


Same here (albeit only two of us). The dehumidifer runs year-round for drying purposes (because Scotland). All of our fireplaces have been bricked up at some point in the past, which doesn't help - I have considered getting vents put in.

We had a washer-dryer but replaced it when it died last year with a standard washer, because we didn't use the dryer often. However, I've since realised that it did have its uses: towels are never fluffy any more, and I'm scared of washing my down jackets and sleeping bag these days.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Paul H on 24 September, 2020, 06:46:52 pm
I am now thinking a heated clothes airer instead of a dryer - thoughts?
I have a Lakeland one, used mostly without the heating, it's a decent airer in itself. the heating is pretty useless if you're hoping to dry stuff quickly straight out of the machine, but helps things along when they're almost dry. Even then it needs the cover to be effective. 
I'd also put in a good word for an old fashioned spinner the sort that'll dance across the floor if you don't hold it down, doesn't need plumbing in, so you can stick it away when not in use. I've never had a washing machine that could spin stuff that dry, I'm not sure if such thing exists.  If in doubt, try one at a laundrette.
My washing routine, for most stuff (I don't have many heavy cottons) -  Wash and spin in the morning, leave on the airer all day, cover and heat overnight (Window ajar) and ready to put away in the morning.
I've never had a tumble drier, though I've used plenty of laundrettes, I've never felt the need, though there is something nice about a pile of warm clothes. 
I like the idea of a dehumidifier, I might look into that.
 
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Jurek on 24 September, 2020, 06:57:14 pm
[snip]
 All of our fireplaces have been bricked up at some point in the past, which doesn't help - I have considered getting vents put in.

[/snip]
If your fireplaces have been bricked up, with no air brick put in, they've been done by cowboys.
Put in an air brick.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Kim on 24 September, 2020, 07:39:03 pm
The efficacy of a clothes airer can be greatly increased by pointing a fan at it, even without heat.  A technique I've used to good effect in hotel rooms for drying kit overnight.

As ian says, the moisture has to go somewhere.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: Canardly on 24 September, 2020, 07:48:28 pm
[snip]
 All of our fireplaces have been bricked up at some point in the past, which doesn't help - I have considered getting vents put in.

[/snip]
If your fireplaces have been bricked up, with no air brick put in, they've been done by cowboys.
Put in an air brick.

You should have the air bricks in any event as you can get interstitial condensation in the flue.
Title: Re: Driers? Worth getting?
Post by: drossall on 24 September, 2020, 10:39:15 pm
We've always chosen a separate washer and drier over a dishwasher (given space for only two machines), for 35 years. We dry clothes outside in the garden whenever possible, but with two children (originally) and now three adults in the house, we'd struggle when it's wet. Our current drier has lasted forever, although I had to replace the main bearings a couple of years ago. I found quite an alarming build-up of fluff - important to watch that, as it's a fire risk. I think it was the cause of the bearings drying out and making an horrendous noise.