"Hasids vs hotties in a Brooklyn bike war"

[Dave]

Culture clash over sexy cyclists

With picture of 'hottie'.

[Frenchie]

Sectarianism!? What, in the US of A?! 

[rogerzilla]

Isaac Abraham.  Good Jewish name!

[andygates]

He could demand that they wear a burkha...   (!)

Idiot.  A man's unwanted arousal at the sight of a hottie is the MAN'S problem, not the hottie's.  He needs to keep a grip on his libido.

[Adrian]

He could demand that they wear a burkha...   (!)

Idiot.  A man's unwanted arousal at the sight of a hottie is the MAN'S problem, not the hottie's.  He needs to keep a grip on his libido.

It is a parallel to the common motorists' perception of cycling as dangerous, transferring the responsibility for the problem (if indeed there is one) to the other party

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't think it's "unwanted arousal" that's the problem, it's simply deemed immoral. Would you dress in shorts to cycle in Saudi Arabia or Iran? That would be deemed immoral as it contravenes locally accepted standards of dress. Would a Papua New Guinean crocodile hunter be allowed to walk down Oxford St wearing nothng but a penis gourd?

The difference of course is that this Hassidic community is only a tiny part of NYC, not the dominant moral code of the city. So it depends how you define "community"; When in NYC, bike as the New Yorkers do, or, When in Hassidic Brooklyn, bike as the Hassidim do?

I guess maybe the Hassidic community would be happy in a gated community?

[andygates]

It's immoral because it gives people unexpected, unwanted thoughts.  They should master themselves.

Gated communities, feh, I feel that they're an ultimate expression of weakness: "we cannot live in the real world, we're going to hide."  Interesting stuff can happen inside them, but mostly they're defined by what they're hiding from, being hotties or hoodies.

[Cudzoziemiec]

There's a few gated communities in Warsaw now, and it's moot as to how they're actually hiding in practice; the people who live there tend to work such long hours (cos they favour work, and of course the salary, in the balance of their lives) that they're almost hiding from themselves. But yeah, it's definitely a device to keep "our sort of person" in and "undesirables" out. An extension of home as your castle to "my community is my castle"?

[nightrider]

I think its a case of respect,if cycling through a Hassidic area,or walking for that matter, I would cover up,out of respect for there beliefs.In the same way I may swear on a building site,if I knew that it would not cause offence,but in more mixed company I would restrain myself.

[Pancho]

Reading the article, it's just a new spin on the familiar "no bikes - they jump red lights and, more importantly, we want to park cars and drive fast round here".

Re the dress code. It's a respect thing. You wouldn't enter a mosque with your wellies on and, conversely, you'd expect a native tribesman (now there's a phrase which exudes casual racism but, I can sure you, I'm not) to cover his willy when visiting Oxford Street. The Jewish guys need to respect the US women's right to make an exhibition of her flesh.

[Pete]

Infuriating, maybe, to us secular folks, but perhaps a bit of tolerance of people's deeply-held views here?  After all, up until around the 1970s, to be seen kissing (between the sexes) in public was considered bad form in good old liberal and westernised Ireland.  Or so I've read...

Point of correction: the Hasidic sect referred to in the article is possibly not pro-settlement in Palestinian lands: in fact there are many such sects who are vociferously anti-Zionist.

[Hot Flatus]

Why yes!  As we all know the anti-zionist Satmar sect are the predominant hasidic group in South Williamsburg, so the group referred to in the article may well be the very same.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Reading the article, it's just a new spin on the familiar "no bikes - they jump red lights and, more importantly, we want to park cars and drive fast round here".

Re the dress code. It's a respect thing. You wouldn't enter a mosque with your wellies on and, conversely, you'd expect a native tribesman (now there's a phrase which exudes casual racism but, I can sure you, I'm not) to cover his willy when visiting Oxford Street. The Jewish guys need to respect the US women's right to make an exhibition of her flesh.

And the US women to respect the Jewish guys' culture, too. When cycling through South Williamsburg, are we wearing wellies in the mosque or a penis gourd on Oxford St? Both, I think.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

If I decide to visit a church or a monastery while I'm in Greece, I ensure my shoulders, upper arms and thighs are covered. If I went into a synagogue or a mosque, I would ensure I was dressed appropriately.

Out on a public street - as long as I'm not breaking any public indecency laws I think it's up to me what I wear and I would be unlikely to conform to standards of dress required by a religion I don't believe in.

[andygates]

I think its a case of respect,if cycling through a Hassidic area,or walking for that matter, I would cover up,out of respect for there beliefs.I

If I decide to visit a church or a monastery while I'm in Greece, I ensure my shoulders, upper arms and thighs are covered. If I went into a synagogue or a mosque, I would ensure I was dressed appropriately.

Out on a public street - as long as I'm not breaking any public indecency laws I think it's up to me what I wear and I would be unlikely to conform to standards of dress required by a religion I don't believe in.

I'm with Kirst.  Don't forget, nightrider, that this isn't "a hasidic area" or any other sort of area.  It's public space.  Everyone has to play by our shared rules in public space, and those rules include tolerating people you might not want to see there.

"Respect" is not due to anyone, it is earned.  Intolerance isn't a good way to earn it.

[Tiger]

More religious crap. The streets are public space not the preserve of any particular religious sect. This sort of nonsense should be resoundingly rejected. 
This is what religions do - try and increase their area of dominance and control over all aspects of life. Demanding special treatment, and claoking it all under the guise of 'culture and belief' and 'offense caused'. 
Personally I find people who thrust their beliefs into my life offensive - flaunting crosses or wearing headscarves or burkas or growing their hair in particular ways. That is private stuff they can do at home if they want but I certainly don't respect any of it, and I don't want it public spaces, schools etc. 

[mattc]

More religious crap. The streets are public space not the preserve of any particular religious sect. This sort of nonsense should be resoundingly rejected. 
This is what religions do - try and increase their area of dominance and control over all aspects of life. Demanding special treatment, and claoking it all under the guise of 'culture and belief' and 'offense caused'. 

Well, strongly worded, but I can understand your point of view ...

Personally I find people who thrust their beliefs into my life offensive - flaunting crosses or wearing headscarves or burkas or growing their hair in particular ways. That is private stuff they can do at home if they want but I certainly don't respect any of it, and I don't want it public spaces, schools etc. 

... and then you went too far. Couldn't help yourself, could you?

[bobb]

Would a Papua New Guinean crocodile hunter be allowed to walk down Oxford St wearing nothng but a penis gourd?

I think the answer to that rather silly question is "Yes". Can you seriously see any outrage (apart from Daily Wail readers) regarding some PNG croc hunters walking down Oxford Street in their traditional dress?

This is ridiculous.

[andygates]

They don't even arrest the WNBR and they're pretty startling!   

[Pete]

They don't even arrest the WNBR and they're pretty startling!   

I would not advise routeing it through Stamford Hill, though...

[scott]

Would a Papua New Guinean crocodile hunter be allowed to walk down Oxford St wearing nothng but a penis gourd?

Please don't give Andy ideas for penny-farthing wear.

[andygates]

I was going with a kilt, actually...   

[Cudzoziemiec]

I seem to be out of step with the majority here, but I do think respect goes both ways. It is public space, so for all. The Hassidim who live there should adjust to the larger NY they are a part of, and those of that larger NY should make allowances for the Hassisim.

A friend sometimes wears a T-shirt saying "What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine? A porcupine has its pricks on the outside." Fine to wear in the absence of BMW owners (v v few here) but maybe inadvisable to wear to a party where you know in advance there will be many owners of said Teutonmobile.

[bobb]

Although I agree with what is printed on your friend's T-shirt, there is a slight difference - that statement is actively trying to be offensive.

The hotties aren't breaking any laws. They're just wearing clothes (no matter how small!) that are acceptable in their society.

What would happen if somebody of say white Anglo-Saxon origin in NYC complained about Hassids cycling around in traditional dress? There'd be absolute outrage and accusations of racism and religious intolerance. Kinda ironic seeing as pretty much all religions are completely intolerant of any other or way of life as this shows....

[Cudzoziemiec]

What grounds would somebody of white Anglo-Saxon origin have to complain about Hassid dress? If just that it's "not what we wear" then, yes, that's racist or intolerant in whatever way. But if it actually is offensive to general American standards, maybe by... I'm struggling to think how it could be, actually, so shall invent something... Let's imagine that the colours black and white together in clothes were only worn on certain specific occasions in American tradition, well then that would be a valid complaint. Wear your black and white in your own community but not in the city at large, cos it's reserved for military funerals or something.