Author Topic: Brompton and ripoffs  (Read 5045 times)

Brompton and ripoffs
« on: 02 March, 2023, 08:43:49 am »
<i>Marmite slave</i>

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #1 on: 02 March, 2023, 10:08:06 am »
Brompton aren't exactly innovative, though.  They make small tweaks but the product hasn't changed drastically since the turn of the century, which is why old ones still sell so easily.  They've been living off past glories for too long, and some genuine competition unfettered by dubious legal action (they now use copyright law, the patent on the fold being long gone) would be a good thing.

My main issue with the knock-offs is that they are probably badly built and specified so that they don't work.  If Merida made them, they'd be fine.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #2 on: 02 March, 2023, 10:30:55 am »
Reminiscent of the British motor industry; complacency.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #3 on: 02 March, 2023, 11:15:42 am »
It’s a miracle that Brompton have had the market to themselves for decades. There are plenty of other innovative products that have been swamped by clones within days. Some before the original product has even started shipping.

The one you’ve linked to uses the Brompton fold but otherwise unique parts and doesn’t use the Brompton name. If you look on Ali Express there are many many direct clone parts that use the name.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #4 on: 02 March, 2023, 11:17:50 am »
The full Ti frame is the biggest innovation since the start, I think, but hardly mass-market.  A longer-lasting or more user-serviceable rear hinge would be on my list, along with elimination of the quill stem* and some kind of bar height adjustment; if you're over 6' and want S-type bars, you're SOL as they will be too low.

*which can't even be used to tweak bar height, so is just useless
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #5 on: 02 March, 2023, 09:05:49 pm »
The patent on the fold expired years ago. As for design copyright, I'm thinking rectangular phone with rounded corners.

The stuff about innovation in that interview is just ridiculous.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #6 on: 02 March, 2023, 09:24:08 pm »
W B-A annoys me a lot with his pseudo-engineering speak, which is really marketing speak.  I suppose he was brought in to make money rather than to make a better bike.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #7 on: 08 April, 2023, 07:50:40 pm »
Chedech is very definitely still in business.  In fact, look up the video “The War between Chedech & Brompton (English version)” on YouTube.

Bromptons has been hoping for “3D Copyright protection” for a decade and a half.  With back-to-back lawsuit losses in European courts to Dahon and Chedech, it’s pretty clear that their little bike is not covered in this way in the EU.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #8 on: 08 April, 2023, 08:02:54 pm »
It’s a miracle that Brompton have had the market to themselves for decades.

Within the Valeriepieris circle (where half the world's population lives), Andrew Ritchie trifold-inspired bikes are sold under the 3sixty, Aceoffix, Afluen, Aleoca, Alps, B-Bike, Backer, Benotto, Billiton, Burke, Camp, Cigna, Crius, Easyti, Element, Flamingo, Fova, Garcia, Groo, Harry Quinn, Iruka, Neo, Jcat, Kreuz, La Bici, Leggero, Liaoge666, Litepro, Luigino, Mint, MIT, Mobot, Movebike, Neo, Oltre, Panlova, Ecosmo, Pico, Pikes, Pytitans, Sanye, Sunrimoon, United, Viking and Week Eight brand names.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #9 on: 08 April, 2023, 08:09:00 pm »
Design copyright lasts for 25 years, it seems.

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-design

Quote
A design registration lasts 5 years. You must renew your design registration every 5 years to keep it protected - up to a maximum of 25 years.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #10 on: 09 April, 2023, 11:00:06 am »
If design copyright starts from the date of creation of the design, then it's expired for Brompton.

Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #11 on: 09 April, 2023, 05:35:19 pm »
Brompton aren't exactly innovative, though.  They make small tweaks but the product hasn't changed drastically since the turn of the century, which is why old ones still sell so easily.  They've been living off past glories for too long, and some genuine competition unfettered by dubious legal action (they now use copyright law, the patent on the fold being long gone) would be a good thing.

My main issue with the knock-offs is that they are probably badly built and specified so that they don't work.  If Merida made them, they'd be fine.

It's comparable to another innovative British product: the Anglepoise lamp for which the patent expired in 1954.  Amazingly, copies of the smaller 3-spring version are still exceedingly rare.  The makers did register 'Anglepoise' as a trade mark but I can't see how that would protect the actual design.

Herbert Terry did allow a Norwegian textile machine designer, Jacob Jacobsen, to make the 4-spring version (the inventor Carwardine's original design) under licence and it was called 'Luxo' but they were not allowed to sell lamps in Britain.  Instead they became very successful selling their version of the 'Anglepoise' everywhere else.  Copies of the 4-spring lamp appear all over the place (the better of the two versions, IMHO), so obviously Luxo did not depend on copyright protection overmuch for their success.

Luxo are now part of the Norwegian company 'Glamox':

Quote
Glamox is a Norwegian industrial group that develops, manufactures and distributes professional lighting solutions for the global market. Our mission is to provide sustainable lighting solutions that improve the performance and well-being of people.

Competent
We are on top of developments in our industry and translate this into
value for our customers.

Committed
We take pride in keeping what we promise with a winning team spirit.

Connected
We work closely with each customer to understand and meet their needs,
and join forces with colleagues to bring out the full potential of Glamox.

Responsible
We treat everyone with respect, hold ourselves to high ethical standards
and provide solutions that benefit society and the environment.



It's a story very typical of British industry generally and Brompton appear to be going the same way.  I don't know why! 

Sheldon Brown never said leave it to the professionals.


rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Brompton and ripoffs
« Reply #13 on: 29 April, 2023, 09:13:28 pm »
Andrew Ritchie will go apeshit.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.