Author Topic: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017  (Read 33103 times)

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #25 on: 28 August, 2017, 06:18:50 pm »
Yup, I now treat listed closing times as hard deadlines unless otherwise informed by the organizer (LEL is an example of this). Like I said, beginners mistake.

Note that the closing times are not based on the average speed of the brevet. For a 1000km brevet you are allowed 75 hours to finish, meaning an average of 13.3kph minimum. However, closing times of any controls within the first 600km are calculated using the regular minimum speed of 15kph. The RUSA website has a nice article on closing times, in case you want to do some planning when you don't have your brevet card yet.

There's also a very convenient (and free) app Randonneur Control Close Calculator for recent Garmin models that shows you the time in hand during your ride.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #26 on: 28 August, 2017, 07:15:16 pm »
Check with ACP directly for the straight dope. Actually, don't. Get your ACP representative to ask the question, but you might not like the answer and it might restrict future brevet organiser discretion in your country.


 ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #27 on: 28 August, 2017, 07:33:34 pm »
Note that the closing times are not based on the average speed of the brevet. For a 1000km brevet you are allowed 75 hours to finish, meaning an average of 13.3kph minimum. However, closing times of any controls within the first 600km are calculated using the regular minimum speed of 15kph. The RUSA website has a nice article on closing times, in case you want to do some planning when you don't have your brevet card yet.

The majority of BRM countries use different limits to that calculator e.g. most top out at 30kph.  A 1200 using that calculator theoretically starts fast, has a slow section and speeds up a bit, which is a bit stupid. Very few countries actually do that. PBP doesn't match those speeds and PBP controls often have 'adjustments' that don't match any simple calculation.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #28 on: 29 August, 2017, 04:15:25 pm »
Thanks to all for the detailed responses re the control timing. Think it's best I plan around making those times. Now to work out where and when to kip.  I'm ok about the distance, it's the lack of sleep that terrifies me.

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #29 on: 29 August, 2017, 09:51:30 pm »
Has anyone made any plans on where to eat yet? Earliest place I can find in Carlisle is McDonalds on the north side of town which opens at 5am as I believe you can't get served in Penrith at the 24 hour drive thru?

Struggling as well to find a suitable location to kip for a couple of hours  :-\

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #30 on: 29 August, 2017, 10:06:30 pm »
I'd look at truck stops. There's also the motorway services at Gretna, and the very obscure Todhills Rest Area.

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #31 on: 30 August, 2017, 12:48:03 pm »
There's The Rooster at penrith, just where the a6 meets the a66 and m6.

Bairn Again

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #32 on: 30 August, 2017, 01:49:13 pm »
Note that the closing times are not based on the average speed of the brevet. For a 1000km brevet you are allowed 75 hours to finish, meaning an average of 13.3kph minimum. However, closing times of any controls within the first 600km are calculated using the regular minimum speed of 15kph. The RUSA website has a nice article on closing times, in case you want to do some planning when you don't have your brevet card yet.

The majority of BRM countries use different limits to that calculator e.g. most top out at 30kph.  A 1200 using that calculator theoretically starts fast, has a slow section and speeds up a bit, which is a bit stupid. Very few countries actually do that. PBP doesn't match those speeds and PBP controls often have 'adjustments' that don't match any simple calculation.

being a bit of an anorak, I tried to reconcile the control closing times at the 2015 PBP for the 90 hr group.  I no longer have the spreadsheet but I recall getting to within a couple of minutes by using a minimum speed of 15.375  kph up to 600 and 13.633kph thereafter. 

These differ from the standard 15 kph / 13.33 kph only in that theres an adjustment throughout for the overdistance ie applying a multiplier of 1230/1200. 

Once I thought about it, the approach made sense otherwise the time allowance on the final leg would have been be somewhat compressed ie Dreux is at 1166km where the time allowance at 13.3kph is just under 87 and a half hours, but if that happened there would be only 2 and a half hours left to finish the final 64km, so the extra speed required for the overdistance is spread over the whole event. 

or something.   

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #33 on: 30 August, 2017, 01:58:52 pm »
I'd look at truck stops. There's also the motorway services at Gretna, and the very obscure Todhills Rest Area.

I don't think that Todhills is accessible by bike .
The Shell garage on the old A6 in Penrith-Victoria Road -is open 24/7. It has a coffee machine.

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #34 on: 30 August, 2017, 02:02:41 pm »
There's the Golden Fleece at the A6/M6 junction south of Carlisle.

Or if you went the back road between Penrith and Carlisle, you could get into Southwaite Services.

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #35 on: 30 August, 2017, 02:28:49 pm »
I'd look at truck stops. There's also the motorway services at Gretna, and the very obscure Todhills Rest Area.

I don't think that Todhills is accessible by bike.

Sort of is and isn't you'll need to dismount and follow the fence round to the right. Given I've seen people reversing back up this slip I reckon you'd be reet.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #36 on: 31 August, 2017, 06:19:39 am »
being a bit of an anorak, I tried to reconcile the control closing times at the 2015 PBP for the 90 hr group.  I no longer have the spreadsheet but I recall getting to within a couple of minutes by using a minimum speed of 15.375  kph up to 600 and 13.633kph thereafter. 

These differ from the standard 15 kph / 13.33 kph only in that theres an adjustment throughout for the overdistance ie applying a multiplier of 1230/1200.

If you tried doing the same thing for some previous PBPs, you'd have found more variation of control closing times from linear formulas.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

simonp

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #37 on: 31 August, 2017, 02:06:16 pm »
I almost got caught out on PBP in 2015 because we had only around 64h to 1000km. Despite only sleeping for 1h on the third night, I only had about an hour in hand when I arrived at Villaines on the return. So this gives you around 16h for the final ~200km assuming you were right on the limit at Villaines. I think it took me about 6h to get there from Fougeres with three stops (two roadside stalls and a cafe that was open all night, bless them).

I was coming down with a cold during the final day, and somewhat toured back, having a few roadside kips, so it took me about 13h for the final 200km in the end.


Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #38 on: 02 September, 2017, 10:24:21 pm »
I don't suppose there's a possibility of doing this Glasgow-Blackpool-Glasgow? Spot the man who lives in Glasgow...

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #39 on: 06 September, 2017, 08:53:32 am »
Tempted by this, it's just that getting to Blackpool is a hassle/costly (flying to Manchester etc).

Looking at the controls, how does one validate at Shap? Don't think there's anything still open after 02:00 and I can't find an ATM either.

Group photo in the disabled toilets.

Jay_70_One

  • Condor Road Club
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #40 on: 12 September, 2017, 03:29:06 pm »
 :thumbsup: i'm entered, my 1st 600 so looking forward to it! even bought a new light :')
Don't die wondering...

Lee Killestein

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #41 on: 14 September, 2017, 06:59:10 pm »
Not long to go now for this one. Has anybody had a route sheet yet?

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #42 on: 14 September, 2017, 09:16:19 pm »
Not seen one yet but the closing date has been moved to tomorrow so assume it will be sent shortly after that.

Lee Killestein

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #43 on: 14 September, 2017, 09:30:06 pm »
Ah, hadn't spotted the update to the event page. Route sheets being sent out tomorrow!

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #44 on: 18 September, 2017, 12:04:22 am »
Does anyone have the route sheet yet?

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #45 on: 18 September, 2017, 12:30:16 am »
Do you really need one? Head North on the A6 and the B7076 for 300km, turn round and ride South on the B7076 and A6 for 300km.

Lee Killestein

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #46 on: 18 September, 2017, 10:31:56 am »
Do you really need one? Head North on the A6 and the B7076 for 300km, turn round and ride South on the B7076 and A6 for 300km.

600km and only two roads to follow? Sounds like a perfect route for me, I won't even need my Garmin!  8) :P

simonp

Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #47 on: 18 September, 2017, 12:25:58 pm »
B7076 is only 71.6km long so you will need at least one other road. Perhaps after Abington the B7078?

Jay_70_One

  • Condor Road Club
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #48 on: 18 September, 2017, 01:26:35 pm »
I note Andy has posted new route sheet out tomorrow - i'm thinking maybe wont need a GPX file?
Don't die wondering...

Andy Corless

  • Doesn't take the p***, says it as it is!
Re: Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 22nd Sept 2017
« Reply #49 on: 18 September, 2017, 05:04:54 pm »
The route-sheet is more or less ready but I've had to change the route in and out of Glasgow. I wanted to re-check the route before posting the route sheet out. Better to wait a few more days than e-mail one that will need replacing a few days later.

Andy Corless