Alternative Trangia fuel

[Kim]

I've been doing a bit of scientific pyromania....

I wanted to see how well a Trangia would run on pure methanol ('meths' being typically but not consistently 95% ethanol, 5% methanol, and some tiny amount of blue dye and horrid-tasting stuff).  Having secured a litre of 99.5% methanol from a supplier on eBay at prices comparable to meths from the local hardware shop, I cleaned the burner out thoroughly, and tried it out.

Not entirely surprisingly, it burns extremely well.  It lights easily (theoretically more easily than ethanol, but I didn't notice the difference), the flame is entirely blue, and it doesn't appear to leave any soot on the pans (my pans are already sooty, but nothing comes off on your fingers).

In the intersts of ^_SCIENCE, I also tried some electronics-grade isopropyl alcohol (propan-2-ol, commonly available as a cleaning solvent and as 'rubbing alcohol') - I'm not entirely sure what the water content is, probably significant.  Again, unsurprisingly, this burned with a hot yellow flame, and left significant soot.  Usable, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I then mucked about with mixing the two, finding that a roughly 80:20 methanol:isopropyl mixture gave the best quality flame - no apparent soot, but yellow enough that you can see that it's actually lit outdoors in daylight.

I didn't measure boiling times properly, starting with a cool burner and a precise quantity of water and so on, but pure methanol didn't seem that far off meths for boiling a cupful of water.


In conclusion, it's not an entirely daft idea to run an alcohol stove on industrial methanol.  As it's commonly used to make biodiesel the cost isn't unreasonable when bought in quantity, and it has the excellent feature of Not Tasting Of Meths.  The lower energy density would be a disadvantage on longer trips, but on longer trips you're burning whatever you can obtain locally, anyway.  And if you're really fussed about boiling times, you're probably not using an alcohol stove in the first place.

I'm not sure if I'll continue using it, but being able to avoid your fingers tasting of bitrex is a win for campsite cooking, and unlike surgical spirit as famously used by Phil of this parish, it doesn't give you flashbacks to playground injuries or leave manky oil of wintergreen residue in the burner.   

[IanDG]

I have used pure methanol for some time. Burns well and as you say no sooty deposits on the bottom of the pans  

[Polar Bear]

When we were last in Denmark the only stuff I could find was methanol.   Like you say, it burned well, didn't soot and didn't smell.   I'd even go so far as to say that the performance differential was negligible.

I have noticed that the price of meths has gone up sharply in recent months.   I purchased a few bottles at 99p for half a litre two years ago.  Having used my supplies I went into Wilko's for some on Friday.  £3+ for half a litre.      

[rogerzilla]

Isn't methanol horribly poisonous?  OK, white gas isn't great either but that evaporates very fast and is unlikely to taint the food.

[border-rider]

Isn't methanol horribly poisonous? 

Only if you drink it in any significant quantity.  Burning it will give water & CO₂, can't produce any higher-carbon compounds, so it'll be fine.

[Kim]

Isn't methanol horribly poisonous?  OK, white gas isn't great either but that evaporates very fast and is unlikely to taint the food.

Well it's not like you're drinking it or anything.  It evaporates faster than ethanol (which isn't exactly good for you, either).  I suppose the vapour could be hazardous in an enclosed space, but given how efficiently it burns, I doubt the combustion products are a problem.  And meths has methanol in it anyway.

I consider the main risk to be from knocking the stove over and spilling burning alcohol everywhere.  That doesn't change.

[IanDG]

Burn it, don't dilute with tonic and swallow

COOKING IN UG’s

They were using at Plas Y Brenin for all their trangias when I was there in 1984

[Kim]

COOKING IN UG’s

Get in a station wagon, roll the windows up tight and cook a pot of rice on a stove: the stove flame will use up the oxygen, and you will pass out and maybe die. It is not the FUMES from the stove that kill you. It is because the fire consumed the oxygen from the air and didn’t leave enough for you.

Bzzt.  Assuming no significant carbon monoxide production, carbon dioxide will still reach toxic levels well before the oxygen's used up.

[Pedaldog.]

Just found this after a search.

Number 1 Brother (Industrial Chemist) says Ethanol is fine but do not use Methanol as it is nasty and can poison you through skin transfer even

I managed to get some Ethanol and will try playing with that if I get chance tomorrow evening.

[alexb]

yeah. Sorry, Methanol is toxic on skin contact.

You can buy industrial methylated spirits(IMS) pretty cheaply, so there is a possibility that what you think is Methanol is actually IMS, which is a mixture of Ethanol, with some Methanol added to make it undrinkable.

Also, you can gradually dilute ethanol/IMS and you will find a concentration that will burn well, but because it's diluted will significantly eke out your fuel.

[Aushiker]

Interesting reading. Just to add to the information feed already providing, Hiking Jim likes playing with stoves and has a couple of recent posts on fuel for alcohol stoves.  The first is titled Is Ethanol Worth It? and the second is titled Methanol/Denatured Alcohol -- Safe Handling

Hopefully they add to the discussion.

Regards
Andrew

[Kim]

Data point:

I've just acquired a litre bottle of "Bio-ethanol", of the type intended for fuelling real flame effect flueless fires (apparently they are a thing), and which may compare favourably on price to standard meths when bought in bulk.

On closer inspection, the bottle describes it as "denatured alcohol".  The liquid is clear, but appears to contain Bitrex (it left the distinctive taste on my fingers, in the same way as standard meths.  In a standard Trangia burner, the burn is indistinguishable from normal meths: a reasonably hot flame with yellow bits.  However, it doesn't appear to leave much in the way of soot in the pans - I suspect it may have a non-trivial water content.


So yeah, no real gain over the usual meths, other than it may be easier to obtain cheaply in bulk.  Still worth knowing about, should you find yourself somewhere with a purveyor of fireplaces but no proper hardware shops.

(Shame, I was hoping it might not have bitrex in it.)

[alexb]

You could always redistil it to remove the bitrex...

[rr]

I buy it in france when I am there, alchol a brule, much cheaper than here  and nice winey smell

[Pedaldog.]

Interesting post Kim. I live about 2 miles from the nearest hardware shop but less than 50 yards from a Posh Fireplace and Fire shop!
Might nip in and ask the chap if he knows of this Bio-Ethanol stuff.

[Perky]

This comes up for discussion on the bushcraft forums every now and then, and these chaps seem to be the preferred supplier if you want shed loads of the stuff:


• ContemporaryElements.co.uk

But before straying into the murky world of alternative fuels you might want to check with these chaps especially if you "accidentally" import bio-ethanol via, for example, Amazon:


• HMRC

And here's an example of the hoops at your disposal should you go the legit route for pretty much anything other than retail meths - in this case IMS, note the red text:


• Stratlab

I looked at this a few years back, even had a lengthy chat with a nice man from Her Majesty's Customs and Excise, but in the end I gave up, and, by way of a seriously cheaper alternative, and to fool myself into thinking the hours of research into alternative stoves and fuels had amounted to anything useful, stuck this on my list of things to do that I'll probably never get around to:

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