Author Topic: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record  (Read 23168 times)

simonp

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #25 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:14:36 pm »
Sometimes it takes an outsider with a brave fresh approach to break a record.  It's worked for Obree before, after all.

All else being equal, 82mph -> 100mph results in power to overcome wind resistance increasing by 80%. You have to wonder where he will find this difference.

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #26 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:22:38 pm »
We're all wondering!
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Kim

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #27 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:24:22 pm »
Sometimes it takes an outsider with a brave fresh approach to break a record.  It's worked for Obree before, after all.

While undeniably brave, this approach doesn't appear to be particularly fresh, thobut.

*sits back and watches with interest*

mattc

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #28 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:29:59 pm »
The more I think about this, the more I doubt the supposed 100 mph target is for anything more than grabbing some headlines.  Maybe Obree will be quite delighted enough with 90 mph - and so he should be.
Yes, I'm sure that's his strategy (and in fact will settle for a record).

Re: more recent posts. He has probably looked at all the designs that came before and learnt a lot - that's why you don't have to be the best designer to build the fastest vehicle. Everyone benefits by climbing on the shoulders of others in this sort of contest.

If he hasn't learnt anything from his predecessors, I reckon he has no chance!
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Karla

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #29 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:44:25 pm »
Don't forget that even when they're inside a fairing, the wheels will still be moving - at a land speed of 80mph, the outer edge of the wheel will be moving at 80mph relative to the still air inside the fairing.  That could sap serious energy into generating turbulence inside the fairing, so it'll still pay to use discs even if the wheels are fully enclosed.

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #30 on: 10 May, 2012, 01:50:46 pm »
ISTR that one of the major hassles in design is the 'slot' in the fairing where the wheel passes through it. Ideally that would be sealed and smooth to the wheel - obviously it can't be, so is a major engineering challenge.
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Kim

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #31 on: 10 May, 2012, 02:01:05 pm »
Obviously I know nothing about aerodynamics, other than that it's rarely intuitive and rapidly deteriorates into Hard Sums, but could the gap be sealed (or the air routed smoothly around the wheel entirely) by a directed flow of air?  I expect the benefit would easily outweigh the power loss of running a blower...

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #32 on: 10 May, 2012, 02:03:13 pm »
I think you might have difficulty proving that the powered airflow wasn't contributing to thrust.
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mattc

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #33 on: 10 May, 2012, 02:07:41 pm »
F1 cars (which admittedly do 200mph) duct air from one end of the car to t'other to affect downforce, without fans (which are illegal now. Sadly). So at 80mph could work.
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simonp

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #34 on: 10 May, 2012, 02:18:05 pm »
I think you might have difficulty proving that the powered airflow wasn't contributing to thrust.

I think Kim's suggesting that the blower be powered by the drivetrain.

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #35 on: 10 May, 2012, 03:33:20 pm »
I dont want to rubbish Obree he's clearly working out his demons, and its fun he's having a go - but I simply dont think hes got a cat in hells chance on that homebrew setup, based on the pics above.

I guess for the serious HPV development guys and athletes things like this are a little galling - you devote huge amounts of your life, energy and finance into the development of seriously sophisticated, multi-generational iterations and prototypes of designs using unobtanium, CAD and wind tunnels etc  to maximise performance. Its a life's work in an area of huge specialisation in which each mph above 80 costs huge efforts. 

Sponsorship is hard to get and when you bust the record its barely heard.

Obree does a rough design in the bath, knocks up a primitive mild steel pipebender homebrew on a 'worn out' design idea (I think), sticks on some clunker heavy spoked wheels and poses under improbable headlines and gets his face in the paper. 

In a way its a fairly insulting challenge to people who have taken this quest very seriously - but I am not sure he sees that because I suspect he's a not entirely straight upstairs.  But if you turn up to the TDF time trial on a slicked MTB, and announce that you expect to win by 20% ahead of the rest, you need to be prepared to take some ridicule - or deliver.

Err..Obree broke the Hour Record twice (albeit he "cheated" with the position but on the other hand he did it at sea level) and has some level of name recognition with the general public, at least in the UK, whereas the HPV riders are non-entities as far as cycle sport is concerned, let alone the general public.

If HPV riders want sponsorship and recognition, perhaps they should be riding the Tour, Milan San Remo, the Tour of Flanders etc. Similarly HPV builders should try and get world level riders to ride their vehicles.

Kim

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #36 on: 10 May, 2012, 09:08:01 pm »
If HPV riders want sponsorship and recognition, perhaps they should be riding the Tour, Milan San Remo, the Tour of Flanders etc. Similarly HPV builders should try and get world level riders to ride their vehicles.

I think you'll find there's a good (or, perhaps more accurately, bad) reason they don't...

simonp

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #37 on: 10 May, 2012, 09:09:28 pm »
UCI?

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #38 on: 10 May, 2012, 09:32:14 pm »
UCI?

Yes. Not sure if I'm correct but 1934 rings a bell. I'm pretty sure it was zonks ago.
Garry Broad

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #39 on: 10 May, 2012, 09:40:54 pm »
If HPV riders want sponsorship and recognition, perhaps they should be riding the Tour, Milan San Remo, the Tour of Flanders etc. Similarly HPV builders should try and get world level riders to ride their vehicles.

I think you'll find there's a good (or, perhaps more accurately, bad) reason they don't...

Obviously I meant using the appropriate bikes for the event, ie conventional bikes in (UCI) road races, and HPVs in HPV races and records.

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #40 on: 10 May, 2012, 09:59:24 pm »
If HPV riders want sponsorship and recognition, perhaps they should be riding the Tour, Milan San Remo, the Tour of Flanders etc. Similarly HPV builders should try and get world level riders to ride their vehicles.

I think you'll find there's a good (or, perhaps more accurately, bad) reason they don't...

Obviously I meant using the appropriate bikes for the event, ie conventional bikes in (UCI) road races, and HPVs in HPV races and records.

Just speculating here, but regardless of a riders professional status, I wonder how transferable those skills are from one discipline to another. So often, as we all know in our own limited way, you've got to kind of immerse yourself in the activity and train specifically for whatever event you're taking part in. And one of the obvious differences with HPVs is the position of the body and the different leg muscles that come into play to propel the bike [this I can verify from getting on the recumbent for the first time again in three years recently!].
It wouldn't surprise me in the slighest to be disappointed by the output a powerful TDF rider might get out of a HPV over at BM. What they could do if they really out their mind to it? Well, that would be interesting. But to do that, they'd have to put in a lot of training, which would obviously conflict with their existing discipline. And then, you're name might as well be Sam Whittingham.
Garry Broad

simonp

Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #41 on: 10 May, 2012, 10:16:55 pm »
I don't know, to be honest. It's a long time since I rode a 'bent, but I recall the leg muscles used did differ somewhat (or it put more load on the thighs in a certain way, anyway). I expect though that for a short sprint like this, you would want a track sprinter rather than a racing pro. What's Sir Hoy up to this year?  ???

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #42 on: 11 May, 2012, 11:20:24 am »
When Jan van Eijden came to BM in 2002, has was able to ride Sam's Varna without the top on, but his shoulders were a Several of inches outboard of the edge of the tub.
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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #43 on: 21 May, 2012, 10:53:50 pm »
Jack Thurston interviewed Mike Burrows for the Bike Show a few weeks back and sought his opionion about the '100mph question'. His offers a view towards the end of the interview.

http://thebikeshow.net/burrows-on-the-bicycle-part-two-laid-back/
Garry Broad

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #44 on: 23 May, 2012, 07:10:57 pm »
Very good interviews. He's articulate and eloquent, and completely in control of his subject. 

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Mr Larrington

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #45 on: 25 May, 2012, 01:21:37 pm »
He was interviewed on PM yesterday.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #46 on: 29 May, 2012, 10:44:06 am »
Jack Thurston interviewed Mike Burrows for the Bike Show a few weeks back and sought his opionion about the '100mph question'. His offers a view towards the end of the interview.

http://thebikeshow.net/burrows-on-the-bicycle-part-two-laid-back/
I enjoyed that, it was informative and clear. Interesting that Burrows would hate to see HPV events in the Olympics but would welcome them in the Tours.
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Tigerrr

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #47 on: 29 May, 2012, 11:58:40 am »
If they were allowed for the TT events,  in e.g. half faired mode so people could see top riders doing amazing speeds on machines that one might feasibly use on the roads it woudl transform the developmnet of recumbents. Suddenly it might be cool and athletic performance projection,  instead of a projection of eccentricity and nonconformity to ride laidback. 
Personally I am not even sure I would welcome that.  My recumbents are my secret weapons - as physical ability has waned I have been able, through careful use of the technology and landscape, to scalp upright riders far fitter and faster than me on any 'level playing field'. 
The thought of loads of sportive lycra performance oriented riders having my secret powers and leaving me eating dust is not one to relish.
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mattc

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #48 on: 29 May, 2012, 01:19:42 pm »
Maybe ...
The only people riding full-on dedicated TT bikes are ... dedicated TT riders. And they have 'normal' bikes for commuting and/or cafe rides. Nobody buys such a thing purely to pose on.
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

clarion

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Re: Scottish cyclist Graeme Obree targets new world record
« Reply #49 on: 29 May, 2012, 03:34:07 pm »
Have you seen CS7? ;D
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