Author Topic: Christopher Hitchens  (Read 2485 times)

Rhys W

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Christopher Hitchens
« on: 16 December, 2011, 09:16:45 am »
We knew he didn't have much time, but he will be missed.

clarion

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #1 on: 16 December, 2011, 09:50:19 am »
The curmudgeonly old bugger.
Getting there...

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #2 on: 16 December, 2011, 11:34:32 am »
The curmudgeonly old bugger.

I'd forgive him most things for calling Mother Theresa a fraudulent old fanatic.

Charlotte

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #3 on: 16 December, 2011, 11:52:52 am »
Anyone who goes on tour in the deep south of America to promote a book called "God Is Not Great" has got my respect - it's just a shame he had to drink and smoke himself to death.
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Regulator

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #4 on: 16 December, 2011, 01:28:50 pm »
I shan't exactly be shedding any tears at his demise.  What had been a fairly bright beginning rapidly became a descent into patrician contrariness and bigotry.

His sycophantic support for the Iraq War was sickening...
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #5 on: 16 December, 2011, 02:37:28 pm »
Anyone who supported the re-election of George W. Twig is automatically suspect in my book.
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border-rider

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #6 on: 16 December, 2011, 05:00:30 pm »
Nice obit. from the NSS:

Quote
There is little more we can add to the acres of newsprint except our admiration for his courage, tenacity and humour in the face of huge opposition for his ideas.

We take a leaf out of his book in our own efforts, when he said: "The noble title of 'dissident' must be earned rather than claimed; it connotes sacrifice and risk rather than mere disagreement."

We didn't agree with everything that Christopher said. Many of us took issue with his support for the war in Iraq. But that's the joy of freethinking – there is no dogma, you can disagree and even oppose another person's viewpoint without feeling the need to kill them.

The media worldwide is lauding Hitchens' intellectual rigour, his polemical skills, his thrilling oratorical outbursts, so we won't repeat it all here. My own vivid memory of Christopher is seeing him a couple of years ago in a debate involving such theological pygmies as Ann Widdecombe, in which he reduced all opposition to rubble while sipping generously on a tumbler of whisky.


Wowbagger

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #7 on: 16 December, 2011, 05:15:32 pm »
I always felt that I ought to have liked him, but never managed it.

My over-riding memory of him was his debate with George Galloway, in which George wiped the floor with him.
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border-rider

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #8 on: 16 December, 2011, 11:00:28 pm »
Interesting coverage on Newsnight. Very moving interview with Paxo.

I don't get the sense that he was any sort of contrarian; he was more principled and intelligent than that implies. More that he was  - unafraid.

I'm divided over Iraq, and a part of me is with Hitchens over it. Though part of me isn't.


clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #9 on: 17 December, 2011, 09:57:45 am »
The curmudgeonly old bugger.

I'd forgive him most things for calling Mother Theresa a fraudulent old fanatic.

True.  But he was very, very wrong about the Iraq War.
Getting there...

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #10 on: 18 December, 2011, 10:16:39 am »
The curmudgeonly old bugger.

I'd forgive him most things for calling Mother Theresa a fraudulent old fanatic.

True.  But he was very, very wrong about the Iraq War.
Yup. "Most things."

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #11 on: 18 December, 2011, 10:51:12 am »
His articulate atheism remains an inspiration and he was truly courageous.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #12 on: 18 December, 2011, 09:05:02 pm »
Do you think that Cameron waited till Hitchens was gone before spouting his 'Christian nation' nonsense, so he didn't get ripped to shreds in debate?
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AndyK

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #13 on: 18 December, 2011, 09:29:17 pm »
I wanted to like him, but the immense revulsion I have for his brother prevented it.

Tigerrr

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #14 on: 19 December, 2011, 10:22:32 am »
I don't think he was a 'likeable' man really.  From the various public 'performances' I saw over the years I think he was probably fairly unpleasant  - that also seems to be the between the lines reading of various obits.  I suspect he would not have wanted to be liked anyway.
I certainly would not have approached him in a bar to say I admired his work for fear of a nasty belittling reply.  And his brother is pretty grim - but he realised that himself.  Altogether they are pary of that self-regarding Amis/McEwan/Reesmoggy sort of clever set.
However he was very good at nailing the hypocritical, weak thinking etc and for that I respect him a lot. His willingness to use strong language to make his points in such things was admirable - it earned him enemies I suspect.  Tackling Mother Theresa is an example - I suspect the idea that a saint such as her might actually be nasty or even evil is pure heresy to the muggeridges.
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Wowbagger

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #15 on: 19 December, 2011, 10:34:55 am »
Good points, Tigerrr.

Thinking back to other debates of his that I saw, he made Tony Blair look pretty silly, I thought, when they debated religion ("not difficult" I hear you cry). The more I think about it, in the Iraq War debate with Galloway, I always felt that Hitchens was bound to lose because he had "backed a loser": it was as though he couldn't find it within himself to side with a majority. If he had, for example, decided to take an anti-war stance, who would have taken him on in debate? Galloway is a pretty sharp debater but I watched that debate from start to finish and thought it was quite one-sided, especialy for someone with Hitchens' reputation.

I suppose I'm speculating that he "threw a fight".
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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #16 on: 19 December, 2011, 10:43:50 am »
Interesting coverage on Newsnight. Very moving interview with Paxo.

I don't get the sense that he was any sort of contrarian; he was more principled and intelligent than that implies. More that he was  - unafraid.

I'm divided over Iraq, and a part of me is with Hitchens over it. Though part of me isn't.



Yes, I agree. I watched the Paxo interview last night (BBC World in darkest Ghana) and it was very interesting. He was without doubt a brave thinker, contrarian to a fault (as Wowsa implied, he couldn't abide siding with a majority!), and incredibly vivid, incisive - even   cutthroat in his use of language. He seems to have manufactured or encouraged the curmudgeon in himself to the point where he would have hated to have been liked. How that worked in his family life intrigues me!

A fascinating, deeply-flawed man.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #17 on: 19 December, 2011, 11:06:24 am »
I have been inspired to download God Is Not Great.
Getting there...

Tigerrr

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #18 on: 19 December, 2011, 11:22:13 am »
I saw the Paxman interview last year and there is a bit in it where he says 'if you have ever thought of writing to me because my own writings have helped you - please do'.  As I had been much affected by 'god is not great' in which he clarified  so many of the half-formed rants and angers of my atheism I wanted to write to him.
To my shame I never did and now it too late.
Funnily enough though the though crossed my mind that he will understand,  from where he is now...oh dear.  A classic example of the childhood brainwash that can never quite be eradicated and against which he was so strongly opposed. 

 
Clarion - I hope you get as much out of his book as I still do. 
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Charlotte

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #19 on: 19 December, 2011, 07:13:47 pm »
I have been inspired to download God Is Not Great.

It's very much worth a read.  Less smug than Dawkins, certainly.
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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #20 on: 20 December, 2011, 01:16:55 am »
I deployed earlier this year with his 'Portable Atheist' collection; a selection of atheistic writings from Einstein, Russell, & Primo Levi amongst others, and a long introduction from Hitchins. and before I deployed, God is Not Great was one of my preferred audiobooks in the car.

I loved his writing, his clarity, his incision, but like many, didn't always agree with him and was frankly shocked when he came out in support if the Iraq war. I will, however be passing this book along to my 13yo son.
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citoyen

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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #21 on: 20 December, 2011, 06:02:00 pm »
Meh. Sharp wit. Talented writer. Right on some things, very wrong indeed on others. Thoroughly unlikeable person. I don't quite get the gushing praise I've been reading for him over the past week or so.

In the grand scheme of things, Christopher Hitchens isn't significant. Where's the thread eulogising Vaclav Havel? Now he was one of the truly great cultural/political figures of the late 20th century.

d.
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Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #22 on: 21 December, 2011, 08:10:09 am »
I did indeed find GING a wonderfully sharp book, but I join with the swell of opinion here that while I admired the man, I very much doubt that I would have liked him.

I have a copy of GING if anyone wishes to borrow it.
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AndyK

Re: Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #23 on: 21 December, 2011, 08:12:33 am »
Meh. Sharp wit. Talented writer. Right on some things, very wrong indeed on others. Thoroughly unlikeable person. I don't quite get the gushing praise I've been reading for him over the past week or so.

In the grand scheme of things, Christopher Hitchens isn't significant. Where's the thread eulogising Vaclav Havel? Now he was one of the truly great cultural/political figures of the late 20th century.

d.

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