Bar bags v Saddle Bags

[Arryg]

What is your preffered method.?  I want to be traveling reasonably light thinking of getting a carradice Audax 9L saddle bag. Not really looked at any bar bags like the idea of having things to hand while on the go though.
Are there any differences in handling of the bike.
Any recomendations for any of the above welcome.

Arry

[bumper]

I prefer saddle bags. Bar bags on their own make the front end feel heavy if loaded, I don't notice it on the rear end. I also like the bars uncluttered if I can help it, I only use a bar bag when using the rear rack and panniers and I need to put valuables and easy to reach stuff close to hand. Bar bags do unclip more easily than most carradice saddle bags though.

[marcusjb]

I use the Carradice Audax saddle bag.  It (and the Barley, which is about the same size, just with the more traditional fasteners etc.) is about the perfect size for just about everything in audax world (which is why you see so many of them). 

It can fit whatever spares/tools you need to carry and a change of clothes - so it's good for anything up to about a 600 (or more if you're using bag drops like on LEL).  The side pockets are deceptively large and can fit snacks and other items you want to reach quickly (which may apply to wallets/phones etc. which come under discussion in a second).

You don't see a lot of bar bags being used - however, I do use one - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ortlieb-ultimate-5-compact-handlebar-bag/

It's pretty small - but big enough for the things I want to take with me into a control (phone, wallet, brevet card etc.).  I like it because I can just unclip it and be in the control very quickly with everything I need.

I don't notice any massive handling changes with that barbag - but I have on a couple of rare occasions used a larger bar bag (dinner dart where I needed to carry normal clothes and shoes etc.) and that definitely makes handling a little sloppy.  I am sure it would be fine on a more touring style frame, but it definitely altered things in a not so good way on my bike (not that my Fratello is a racing machine).  I wouldn't want to ride a long way with a large bar bag on my bike (though manage it fine on our touring tandem). 

[ethel]

An interesting discussion on the topic can be found here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/randon/5VZAH_fdXu0

Boils down to what kind of bike your riding. Using a front bag on a bike designed for it is fantastic. A machine not designed to handle the front load can be trouble.

[Andrew]

For me, it's not either/or but both.

I wouldn't be without a bar bag - for all those bits and bobs that you need during the ride or for café stops. Saddle bag gets used for a change (or changes) of clothes with spares and tools stuck in the pockets of the saddlebag.

[Greenbank]

I used tri-bars on LEL'09 so a barbag wouldn't have worked. Generally not a fan of them anyway.

I got by with jersey pockets, tri bag mounted just behind the stem and a rack pack.

I preferred my rack pack over my Carradice Barley (much as I love the Barley) as the latter is slower to open up and faff around in. Having more space (in the rack pack) meant it was easier to get things at the bottom of the bag too.

With the bag drops there's no real need to carry changes of clothes (unlike PBP if you're not planning on using Baxters or some other support system). I just rode LEL as a series of 300km or 400km rides between bag drops.

You can't do it this time (because of the route change) but I dumped a load of (overnight and emergency) stuff (at my risk and with controllers agreement) at the Eskdalemuir control and treated the Eskdalemuir->Dalkeith->Eskdalemuir section as nice daytime 200km ride. I think geraldc left his entire saddlebag at Eskdalemuir!

I did consider a bar bag for PBP'11 (since tri-bars are banned) but the Altura one I have got in the way of my lighting system (two B&M Ixons on a Minoura SpaceGrip) and I didn't have time to investigate other bags or other light mounting arrangements. The tri-bag worked fine for power pack for GPS and snacks (along with jersey pockets). Brevet card, wallet and 'phone sat in a side pocket of the rackpack. It took but a few seconds to get them out when stopping at each control.

LEL'09: http://www.greenbank.org/audax/lel2009/IMG_0177.JPG
PBP'11: http://www.greenbank.org/audax/pbp_02.jpg

(PBP luggage bigger as I had 3 changes of shorts/jersey/socks with me. The external tool saddle bag worked a treat too and saved space in the bigger bag.)

[LeeW]

How are you planning on navigating?  If you are going to use a paper map or routesheet then a bar-bag would be a good choice as many bar-bags have a pocket on the top to hold a routesheet or map.  If you will be using a GPS device then there is less need for a map/routesheet pocket.

[Phil W]

I used a barbag last year, but didn't like the way it cluttered my handlebars and affected handling. I also felt it caught the wind. So last autumn I switched to a carradice Barley, and I love it. I'll be sticking with the barley for LEL.

[Arryg]

Thanks for the response guys. I ride a Thorn mk3 which will take a rack but don't want to go down that route.
I will be using gps but have a route sheet as back up on the bars.
So its probably a saddle bag either Barley 7ltr or super c audax 9ltr.
I don't want anything big as i will make use of bag drops ect.

Thanks

[Feline]

Bar bags make it much harder to mount a backup front light (assuming your main front light is fork crown mounted). If you fancy having a bag for snacks and Garmin battery to hand then a small frame bag just behind the stem works pretty well. That and a saddlebag is a good solution for me.

[Arryg]

Feline
Now that sounds like a plan. I have to go searching for more bags now

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Both work for me.  I use a bar bag and put the route sheet in the clear plastic part on the top.  I mount lights on a space bar which shines over the top of the bar bag so thta I can see both the road and the route sheet.   

But if I'm going fast and light I ride the lighter Roberts with a saddle bag and tri-bars.  I only use tribars for about 10 - 15% of the time on something like LEL, but it gives an alternative riding position and helps for those inevitable (and unenviable) days when the wind will blow in the wrong direction the whole time. 

[Lordy]

I used a bar bag on both 07 and 11 PBP, however, it did/does impact on the steering of the bike.  I only needed it for the extra carrying capacity.  With LEL and the 2 bag drops I only intend in carry the essentials for the road and plan to just take a carrdice nelson (which will be plenty big enough for me).  I also agree with Feline's point about a small top tube bag.

[Somnolent]

Like CET I have tri-bars for a change of position and for head-winds. 
I don't like the little bags that fit on top-tube behind the stem, so I've made a tiny bar bag which fits atop the forward extensions, but it's shallow enough that it stays below the level of the handlebars and leaves the up-swept handles of the tri-bars clear.   Big enough for the rectifier/cache battery and a few snacks, and has velcro dots/elastic to hold an A5 size ziplock bag for the routesheet. 
It's narrow enough that my back-up batterylight can fit on the bars alongside it.

Barley is big enough for everything else.

[vorsprung]

For PBP '11 I had a bar bag + saddlebag

The bar bag had snacks + valuables in it.  The saddle bag spares, tools and clothes

So at controls I'd take the bar bag with me and leave the rest of the stuff on the bike

The bar bag does alter the steering but it's handy to have instant, as you ride access to snacks, phone etc

[ethel]

While the OP asked about bar bags v seat bags, there is another popular alternative. Front bags mounted on small front racks are an excellent way to carry what you need on brevets. They have been used by Randonneurs for decades and the results speak for themselves. "Rando Boxes" are mounted lower than bar bags and are securely mated to the bike via a decaleur and a small front rack. They are not for everyone, but if you've got a bike that is designed to handle some front weight (low trail design) they are a great alternative (or supplement to) a seat bag.

[mattc]

I read somewhere this week (possibly in Cycle?) that front luggage has more instabiity effect the higher it is mounted - this was tested by scientist types.

IIRC

So presumably front panniers tend to be better than bar-bags. And the more weight up-front, the bigger the effect.

I'm sure frame geometry helps - as in Ethel's post. The "rando-bags" I saw on PBP'11 had a certain charm to them. Mainly french and Western USA riders using them, I believe.

[zigzag]

i wouldn't use a bar bag or a saddle bag which stick out far away from the centre of gravity or axis of steering. small and light bar bag is fine, and small-ish seat pack or frame bag works well and doesn't affect handling. one can also add a small bum bag for valuables/snacks.

[Efrogwr]

I read somewhere this week (possibly in Cycle?) that front luggage has more instabiity effect the higher it is mounted - this was tested by scientist types.

IIRC

So presumably front panniers tend to be better than bar-bags. And the more weight up-front, the bigger the effect.

I'm sure frame geometry helps - as in Ethel's post. The "rando-bags" I saw on PBP'11 had a certain charm to them. Mainly french and Western USA riders using them, I believe.

Yes, you do recall correctly. However, the writer of the letter that you cite was following up his earlier letter (in the previous issue); in both letters he seems to be seeking to knock down his own imaginary targets.

I think that it was Jim Blackburn (of rack fame) who established that "lowrider"* racks are stable. It seems to be the case that centring the mass of a load on the wheel's axis of rotation and on the steering axis has little effect on the stability of the bike. I often used to ride with low mounted front panniers only, with no problems. I did that because my feet are enormous and rear panniers ended up too far back, therefore making the bike unpleasant to ride.


* I think that lowrider was a Blackburn trademark.

I've just seen Littlewheelsandbig's post; there does seem to be a large element of fashion in this, in America, driven by Jan Heine's writings. Heine doesn't like how a rear-loading bike handles!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Handlebar bag versus saddle bag is mainly down to the rider's country of origin.

It is mostly North Americans using handlebar bags on specific front racks and low trail bikes. This is because Jan Heine is a big fan of the old French randonneur bikes. Personally, I don't like how they handle.

The French nowadays are still fans of handlebar bags (though less often nowadays) but very rarely use randonneur bikes.

The Brits have been saddlebag folk for decades and don't look like changing anytime soon.

[ethel]

I've found the element of local fashion and tradition when it comes to bikes quite fascinating. Your absolutely correct that many riders in the US have moved towards bikes that handle front weight well and are stable but fast. There are many others however that use road racing bikes for long distance events and do very well with them.

If you have a few minutes to burn, do a google image search for Brevet Bicycle, then try o identify the country of origin by the bag set-up. The bikes with front bags only will be mostly from the US and France, while those with seat bags only will be from the UK. It's not an exact science, but pretty darm close. 

The point of all this is that folks ride all sorts of machines in various places all over the world and for the most part have a pretty darn good time doing it. I can't wait to ride in the UK this summer and see all the different ways folks get themselves from here to there and back again.

As an aside, I'm bringing a 1977 Raleigh Professional to LEL as an homage to the great bikes of the UK.  And yes, it probably will have a rando box up front.

[Panoramix]

I've learnt the hard way that if you mix the two philosophies, it doesn't work. I tried to mount a bar bag on my Fratello and it transformed a very good bike in a bad one!

[LastGasp]

You don't see a lot of bar bags being used - however, I do use one - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ortlieb-ultimate-5-compact-handlebar-bag/

I have one of these which I have a major problem with.  It is much too easy to bring it into the Control before Brest on PBP and leave it on the Table with your Brevet Card inside, and head off towards Brest for 20kms until you realise what a pillock you are and have to ride back and collect it.  Apart from that it works well in conjunction with a Carradice Nelson (although I have just ordered a Pendle to try that instead of the Nelson).

[LEE]

Try riding no-handed with a packed Bar-bag.  It tends to steer you into the nearest ditch.

On that basis I only use a bar bag when my camping bike is fully loaded and I don't need sharp handling.

Saddlebag every time for me.  To make life easier, put your important stuff in a Musette before putting it in your saddlebag.  Just grab the Musette when you go into a cafe..etc.

[Graeme]

Thread necromancy...

The Brits have been saddlebag folk for decades and don't look like changing anytime soon.

A decade later and bar bags are a lot more popular. I still don't like the way they look, the impact on handling, the complication of figuring out lighting, aerobars and bag access, but I also like the idea of easily accessible bits, like sandwiches and a camera. I've tried a couple of bar-bags and never really been satisfied.

Do you see people moving away from saddlebags to bar-bags?