Author Topic: Charging on the move?  (Read 4211 times)

Charging on the move?
« on: 02 July, 2018, 10:05:10 pm »
Off to France on a two week tour and we've got two phones and need to keep them charged. What advice / options would you recommend?

One of the phones might get used occasionally for GPS mapping since the website for the route gives free gpx files which could be useful with paper maps.

I've bought cheap battery packs from Tesco and other places but they don't seem to charge up fast and even hold their charge in some cases. Plus I've had phone plugged in to one overnight and it only half charged the phone. It was so slow. Not impressed.

The other question is whether good power packs are worth getting even solar cells. Or whether it's possible to get a mapping GPS for less than a good battery pack / solar cell system.

Any recommendations will be gratefully received.

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
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Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #1 on: 02 July, 2018, 10:15:52 pm »
Something like this can keep an Iphone powered for about a week, in my experience.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F5Q4F0U/ref=s9_acsd_zgift_hd_bw_b61ba2x_c_x_w?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-3&pf_rd_r=7BCSBN0BJ3VW50KANND0&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=11a3835b-1bb5-50d9-95fc-bdcdb4ca1f3d&pf_rd_i=5520530031

And I used something like this in Avignon last year, to great effect.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charger-Portable-Waterproof-Foldable-Android/dp/B0786FJMYM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1530565969&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=portable+solar+phone+charger&psc=1

We spent a week at the same camp site so I was able to leave the power bank being charged by the panels when we went out for the day and charged my phone overnight from the power bank. I haven't tried "charging on the move".
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #2 on: 02 July, 2018, 10:18:00 pm »
From my experience;
- Using a mobile phone for GPS routing uses up the battery quickly - if doing this, charge the phone in your hotel overnight and use the external battery to keep the phone topped up during the day.
- Buy good quality battery packs.
- Solar chargers do work but are slow, unless you can guarantee bright sunshine (then they're just a bit slow, rather than very slow).
- A Garmin type GPS is more efficient than a phone for routing and the Etrex range can take AA batteries
- A dynamo with a USB output does a good job of keeping a phone or Garmin going (but use a pass through battery for the Garmin otherwise it will keep switching itself off (a feature, not a problem, says Garmin!)
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #3 on: 02 July, 2018, 10:35:36 pm »
The other question is whether good power packs are worth getting even solar cells. Or whether it's possible to get a mapping GPS for less than a good battery pack / solar cell system.

Any recommendations will be gratefully received.

A decent power pack is going to be cheaper than a solar panel, as any solar panel you're gonna want to drive into a power pack anyway.

With power packs once you get over about the 15000mAh mark, you run into the issue of not being able to charge it all in one night. This is why Anker has a 26800mAh pack that has 2 usb inputs for charging, so you can give it a full charge in 6hours.

If you're really tight, and don't want to fork out about €60 on a decent quality large anker pack, then ikea do 10000mAh packs for under €20. They are not the best ever, but they seem to work ok. My housemate and I have 1 each, and I've found mine to be useful, It doesn't charge my phone as fast as my Anker, but it's fast enough.

Ultimately you get what you pay for, and Sam vimes law applies.

If in doubt, buy an Anker.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
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Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #4 on: 02 July, 2018, 10:55:55 pm »
1) Dynamo chargers will reliably give you a modest amount of power if you're spending a decent number of hours per day on the move.

2) Solar panels have got a lot better in recent years, and are a better bet if you're doing more camping than actual cycling.  Anything big enough to be worthwhile is going to be a bit unwieldy to strap to the bike for use while on the move.  The sun may not appear.

3) It's hard to beat some quality time spent with a mains socket.  Consider the speed (current) at which your stuff can charge from mains power, and make sure you've got a European wall-wart (no point carrying bulky BS1363 plugs and adaptors) of appropriate spec to make use of it.

4) Dedicated GPS receivers are much better power-wise (and ruggedness-wise) for actual navigation/logging than smartphone type devices.  I strongly prefer AA batteries, because it's hard to cock them up in a way that can't be rectified at the nearest little shop.

5) On the other hand, a tablet or smartphone with a locally stored map (don't rely on having an internet connection) is a reasonable substitute for paper maps for just-in-time planning.  Better screens and more powerful processors mean you can see more and scroll around at reasonable speed to get a bigger picture.  GPS receivers are hopeless at this.

6) USB connectors are designed for being plugged into the back of computers and ignored.  They're going to break when you travel with them.  Have a spare cable.  Charging GPS receivers on the move is asking for trouble, IMHO.


On the basis of 1-3, you're going to want some sort of rechargeable battery pack.   Basically, what quixoticgeek said.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #5 on: 02 July, 2018, 11:37:35 pm »
It sounds like we're not going to get an ideal system. We're on the move each day and camping. Distance isn't going to be much so even if I could afford a dynamo hub wheel built out probably wouldn't charge anything fully.

It sounds like reducing phone battery use as much as possible so no GPS except in an emergency. Charging packs overnight if I find a plug socket seems the only option. Better packs get stolen than phones right? A couple of packs so we have longer back up charge for longer spells between charging points. But above all use phone as little as possible seems the cheapest answer.

Last year I took a edge 25 bike GPS for recording the trip. Forgot about it for the first few days then got one day out of it before it ran out of charge and couldn't charge it to again.

What is the cheapest GPS unit with mapping and replaceable batteries (AA) that's worth looking at? That you can upload gpx files to of course.

Chris S

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #6 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:26:17 am »
What is the cheapest GPS unit with mapping and replaceable batteries (AA) that's worth looking at? That you can upload gpx files to of course.

I have no idea if it's the cheapest, or even current these days - but my Etrex 30 will do mapping,routing, backlit screen, for nearly all of PBP (four days) on 2xLithium AAs.

I've bought cheap battery packs from Tesco and other places but they don't seem to charge up fast and even hold their charge in some cases. Plus I've had phone plugged in to one overnight and it only half charged the phone. It was so slow. Not impressed.

The other question is whether good power packs are worth getting even solar cells. Or whether it's possible to get a mapping GPS for less than a good battery pack / solar cell system.

Any recommendations will be gratefully received.

Forget solar. It's too much faff small scale, and Sol isn't big enough (and if it were, we wouldn't be here).

Dynamo chargers might give you some benefit if you're (a) riding 200km, or (b) freewheeling off an Alp for three hours.

Fboab and I play Ingress as well as cycle. This requires a LOT of phone power. Our experience - Don't skimp on battery packs, you pay your money, you takes your choice. We use big packs, and charge them whenever we can - from the Van, from the Pub, from the Charge Station at the campsite.

Our preferred packs of choice - Pretty much anything that has "Anker" on it, the bigger the better.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #7 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:50:50 am »
What is the cheapest GPS unit with mapping and replaceable batteries (AA) that's worth looking at? That you can upload gpx files to of course.

I have no idea if it's the cheapest, or even current these days - but my Etrex 30 will do mapping,routing, backlit screen, for nearly all of PBP (four days) on 2xLithium AAs.

I've bought cheap battery packs from Tesco and other places but they don't seem to charge up fast and even hold their charge in some cases. Plus I've had phone plugged in to one overnight and it only half charged the phone. It was so slow. Not impressed.

The other question is whether good power packs are worth getting even solar cells. Or whether it's possible to get a mapping GPS for less than a good battery pack / solar cell system.

Any recommendations will be gratefully received.

Forget solar. It's too much faff small scale, and Sol isn't big enough (and if it were, we wouldn't be here).

Agreed. You're unlikely to keep the panel at the right angle, and you're going to want to cycle in the shade to keep cool and not burn, but your panel wants to be in the sun, etc... solar is ok if you're base camp style, but if you're on the move, lots of storage, or a dynamo.

Quote

Dynamo chargers might give you some benefit if you're (a) riding 200km, or (b) freewheeling off an Alp for three hours.

Assuming no losses in charging, if you ride for 10 hours, dedicate the full output of your 3W hub, through a USB-Werk, you're going to get 25Wh of energy, enough to charge 1/4 of the big anker pack linked below. Still enough to fully recharge some smart phones, but not quite enough for most, and you're not going to want to charge the phone direct, as you'll just shag the battery. Always charge a power pack, and then charge devices from the power pack.

Quote

Fboab and I play Ingress as well as cycle. This requires a LOT of phone power. Our experience - Don't skimp on battery packs, you pay your money, you takes your choice. We use big packs, and charge them whenever we can - from the Van, from the Pub, from the Charge Station at the campsite.

Our preferred packs of choice - Pretty much anything that has "Anker" on it, the bigger the better.

Agreed, the biggest you can get these days is this one. I doubt they will make them much larger, because once you get over 100Wh, airplanes stop letting you take them.

A power pack will be more cost effective than a solar panel.

If you are travelling on the continent, this is a nice light high power output charger: RAV 3 way 30W (sorry, couldn't find an amazon uk link for it).

Remember, not all usb cables are created equal, get good quality ones, consider if you want right angle as well for ease of fitting things in the right place. And don't be drawn by the idea of long cables, they tend to be too losy, and you don't charge as fast.

Pack your battery pack and charger and cable where they are easy to access. When you stop at a cafe, hunt the table with a nearby power socket. An hour of charging while you have lunch, with both ports of the anker above in use, should get you an additional 20Wh (about the same of 10 hours of charging of a dynamo hub...)

Finally, as a slightly left field suggestion, if simply tracking your journey is your main goal, I can highly recommend the [strike]Delorme[/strike]Garmin Inreach Explorer+. 100h of battery life (in reality, nearer 75h), and because it's relaying via satellite, gives you a handy offsite backup of your travels... and allows family to not worry too much. It's very much not a cheap option, but I really love mine and I think they have a lot to recommend them.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #8 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:58:46 am »
If you are travelling on the continent, this is a nice light high power output charger: RAV 3 way 30W (sorry, couldn't find an amazon uk link for it).

Oh, and while I remember, carry 2 charger units, ideally both with at least 3 outputs, when you do stop you will want to use 2 of the 3 sockets of 1 to charge your power pack, and then you'll want the other one to charge everything else. I try to stop at a hotel every 3 days for a warm shower, and 2 power sockets. Battery packs fill up 3 sockets, 1 for phone, 1 for inreach, 1 for camera, for 6 total. I then rotate the Wahoo in, as it charges quite fast.

And remember, Sam Vimes applies.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #9 on: 03 July, 2018, 08:52:33 am »
It's a holiday right?  So go off-grid.
OK for some people that's just inconceivable but you can at least make an effort to cut back.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #10 on: 03 July, 2018, 08:53:10 am »
Boots theory right?

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #11 on: 03 July, 2018, 09:05:09 am »
Off grid is my old way. Off grid and in the hills for a week every May / June. Family came so it's now middle of the school holidays and we'll probably have to use the phone to keep in touch with the grandparents. If at don't they'll worry about junior. Five and cycling on his own on French roads! We got "tsssked at a lot when we told them our plans. Communication and staying decidedly on grid makes for the least grief. Although we do on know we'll not use the phones for fear of running out of juice. A catch 22 type mentality. If at use the phones will run out of juice for when we need it but if we don't use them we don't use the juice up but don't benefit from their use. (That sounded more catch 22 in my head as I typed it).

I think we have about two 10000 and a 5000 or 8000 rated battery pack somewhere. Bought from places like boots, supermarkets or wilko's. Not all are good. The Wilko's takes ages to charge the 10000 but then it leaks it. The others hold the charge but at least one doesn't release it to the device quickly. It can take all night and you've only half charged a phone with it.

I think I have an old battery pack that came with an early solar cell that folded to create a very small, rigid, oval disc. Something to do with monkeys or gorilla's iirc. Cost £65 but I got it at discount. It was the latest gadget and best solar charger and battery pack you could buy easily back then. In most outdoors shops. Useless though, never worked.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #12 on: 03 July, 2018, 09:20:42 am »
Off grid for me.  I take a tiny phone so I can report in once  a week.  Family do not know where I am apart from country and perhaps region.  Consequently charging the phone is done before I set out and it is still at 80% a month later.  Garmin is used for finding restaurants, supermarkets etc not for routing (paper maps rule), so generally lasts the tour.  Kindle (basic old one) might get charged once.  I take a mid capacity battery with me to do that and anything else  that needs topping up.  Battery can be recharged if needed at a campsite or hotel.

I have found some modern riders who get quite stressed when they are in an area with limited or no phone coverage - "what happens if--".  I reply "same as it did 25 years ago, you have to cope.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #13 on: 03 July, 2018, 10:08:29 am »
I've put together a solar cell and a GPS tracking unit. I refined it a bit for stu1102 OTP but he didn't use it, and it's been running on solar power since February, in a south-ish facing window. It has enough battery power for about 3 days use, and a good sunny day will charge it fully.

It's about 250 g, and all it does is send your position to the mtrak.co.uk website, where someone with the right username and password can see where it is, and the past track.

PM me if you want to borrow it for your trip. I'll want it posted back at the end of the trip, that's all.
Quote from: Kim
Paging Diver300.  Diver300 to the GSM Trimphone, please...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #14 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:01:13 pm »
Boots theory right?

Yep, that's the one, buying cheap tends to be more expensive in the long run, you're better off paying for good stuff in the first place.

I notice lots of people suggesting off grid. It's a nice idea. But in practice, it can be a pain, figuratively and literally.

I used to turn my phone to airplane mode, and disappear off into the woods for a few days. I'd get back to the modern world, turn my phone on, and get loads of "are you ok?" "where are you?" etc... texts. So in the end, I got the inreach. I turn it on, it relays my position every 10 mins. My friends thus know how to find me if they are worried. Also if I do have an issue, I can hit the SOS button, which gives me piece of mind, and also means that my friends don't worry about me when I say "I'm going off on bike ride, see you in a week".

Some trappings of the modern world it can be good to get away from. Others are worth keeping.

"What happens if I get in to trouble?" "same as 25 years ago" "so you die, and there's a massive search to find the body... how is this an improvement?"

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #15 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:27:26 pm »
I don't worry so much.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #16 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:30:01 pm »
I don't worry so much.

Everyone picks their own level of paranoia. It also depends on where you're going. My next big trip will likely take me away from civilisation for days on end, knowing I can hit the magic button if I need to is a great reassurance...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #17 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:51:07 pm »
We got through two weeks in alps with two bikes running dynamos on B&M Luxos U with USB ports. One powered the Garmin Etrex, one charged a the battery pack for the phones. But that is us...

As you are taking the kids. Teach them an essential life skill. Take maps.

Yes they are bulky, yes it's old fashioned but if you strap a map to the kids handlebars/bar bag, whatever works to fit them, get them involved in the trip by doing the navigating. Keep a map for yourself as well and track their progress. You will probably get lost or take a wrong turn every now and again but that's how they will learn. Remind them people toured even before GPS and smart phones.

All I would do then is get a new old fashioned 'dumb' Nokia or find a friend who has one buried in the kitchen drawer from twenty years ago. The battery will last weeks, especially if switched off during the day and only turned on for communicating with Grandparents (or emergencies). The batteries are replaceable, you might be able to carry a few spares. You might just have to consider a PAYG sim if you have a micro sim in an Iphone.

A Nokia and maps combo will be cheaper than a Garmin and is semi off-grid

I wouldn't rely on a smartphone as my only source of GPS navigation so it has to be a Garmin or other dedicated multi-purpose GPS device.
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Kim

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Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #18 on: 03 July, 2018, 12:55:02 pm »
All I would do then is get a new old fashioned 'dumb' Nokia or find a friend who has one buried in the kitchen drawer from twenty years ago.

Unfortunately the one in the kitchen drawer probably won't play with modern SIMs, assuming the battery is still up to scratch and you can find a charger for it.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #19 on: 03 July, 2018, 01:21:33 pm »
If you have anything that uses AAs and you're carrying spares, you could stick them in an AA to USB power pack.  I expect they're dreadfully inefficient and offer poor power to weight benefit, still useful as a back up and if you're carrying the batteries anyway takes up very little extra space.  I have one, it's been used twice by others who overestimated their Garmin running times and I've used it as battery storage and charger.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #20 on: 03 July, 2018, 01:27:51 pm »
All I would do then is get a new old fashioned 'dumb' Nokia or find a friend who has one buried in the kitchen drawer from twenty years ago.

Unfortunately the one in the kitchen drawer probably won't play with modern SIMs, assuming the battery is still up to scratch and you can find a charger for it.

Original Nokias can be bought on Ebay for £30 with chargers and a lot of mobile shops give Sim adapters away for free or charge 20p if you aren't buying anything else.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #21 on: 03 July, 2018, 03:02:04 pm »
The Etrex 20 is the cheapest Garmin that offers maps and AA batteries.
The 30 adds a magnetic compass that gives a sensible north when going at walking speed or slower, and a barometric altimeter that may be handy for weather forecasting.

A solar panel is OK if you get a big one (unfolds to about A3 paper size, look for something that says 20W or more), but transportable options tend to be very slow or don't work at all if it's not sunny.

Most battery packs are either being charged or charging something else, and won't do both at the same time.
A pack that does do both will advertise "pass-through" charging, and can be useful with a dynamo hub to stop a garmin turning itself off at stops whilst simultaneously charging for overnight phone charging (or whatever).
I'd suggest Zendure as a decent brand that does give pass-through charging.

Kim

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Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #22 on: 03 July, 2018, 03:15:31 pm »
The Etrex 20 is the cheapest Garmin that offers maps and AA batteries.
The 30 adds a magnetic compass that gives a sensible north when going at walking speed or slower, and a barometric altimeter that may be handy for weather forecasting.

The main benefit of the barometric altimeter is more accurate elevation logging in hilly areas where GPS is prone to multipath issues and inferring elevation from a topo map is likely to have significant error.  I find the magnetic compass invaluable for walking, but basically pointless on a bike.


Quote
A solar panel is OK if you get a big one (unfolds to about A3 paper size, look for something that says 20W or more), but transportable options tend to be very slow or don't work at all if it's not sunny.

I've got a 15W Portapow one (now discontinued).  It'll happily supply a couple of amps in the current scorchio conditions.  I've had a respectable half amp out of it in late summer when it's been sufficiently overcast to not be able to tell which direction the sun is.  I wouldn't expect much from it in winter.

It's fairly heavy and while you could strap it to the top of your cycling luggage with the convenient loops, that would be awkward and lead to the usual challenges of USB-connectors-on-the-move.

I use it when I'm going to spend significant time loitering within tent (camping weekends more than touring) and am therefore  a) more likely to consume power by doing things like reading ebooks  and  b) not doing enough mileage to get much from the dynamo.  Performance can be greatly improved by making the effort to keep it pointed towards the sun, in much the way you'd move your bag of perishables around to keep them in the shade.

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #23 on: 03 July, 2018, 03:38:47 pm »
Definitely take maps, that's a given. The 5 year old has been learning about maps for a while now, possibly almost 2 years. Life skill! Like swimming and cooking for yourself. He's got a great sense of direction too. If he's done a route once he'll remember it. I'm like that but if I have a blonde moment and can't remember the exact way for sure I ask him. He's rarely wrong. Still a bit too young to get map based navigation fully but he's coming along nicely.

Actually, that's a good idea, he's got a rack with a topeak rack bag on it. That's perfect for holding the maps. He can be responsible for the maps. He'll love that. It'll get him really into the trip. Cycling with kids is all about motivation isn't it. He's got a lot already but a little purpose for him can only help.

The issue now is to buy a GPS unit or not. How can I get French maps for it? Any free sources?

Re: Charging on the move?
« Reply #24 on: 03 July, 2018, 05:58:51 pm »
The current Etrexes come with European maps already loaded (at least my 30x hasn't needed extra attention to be happy in Ireland and in Spain) and in any case there are suitable OSM files to be found.