Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Food & Drink => Topic started by: fred the great on 23 March, 2012, 04:41:27 pm
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My Severin bread machine states that one should put the yeast in last i.e. on top of the bread flour and avoid contact with the other ingredients. I have always kept to their recipes successfully.
But at a couple of cooking websites, it is stated that nicer white bread can be made by starting with the yeast, sugar and hot water allowing 10 minutes to get the yeast working and only then add the rest of the ingredients to the baking tin and press start.
I understand this method also increases the size of the loaf?
So, has any person tried the Website method as described and is the loaf tastier by starting the yeast earlier? Does it rise much more than normal?
I would like to try it but don't fancy cleaning up a big mess afterwards ;)
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In my Panasonic I put the (dried) yeast in first, then the flour/salt/sugar/dried milk mixture, then olive oil and water. I think this is what the maker recommends, especially if using time delay. This machine doesn't do anything for the first hour anyway.
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We've had a Panasonic for at least 8 years.
I always put the ingredients in in order of the recipe, i.e. yeast, flour, sugar, olive oil (easier than messing around with butter), milk powder, salt, water. I always use cold water as we normally start the loaf overnight and time it to be ready shortly after we get up.
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I'm just doing a loaf now, if it fails :sick: there is always the bin
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I bake my bread totally by hand but I would never put my yeast (fast action/fresh or otherwise) directly on top of salt as the salt will kill it !!!
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For me when I started baking bread from recipes was to stop listening to proofing times and follow rises. So rather than wait 2 hours i would wait for the expected increase in volume. This is so much more important with wild yeast sourdough etc...
Sorry. Rambling while drunk ;)
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Marbeaux,
Now I've got round to really reading your question ( I did say I was drinking ;) )
If you are new to bread making there are 3 types of yeast. "Instant" yeast (comes in 7g packs) is the stuff you just stick straight in your recipe. "Fast action" comes in larger packs and needs adding to warm water to activate, the same as "fresh". The addition of sugar is just to feed the yeast. thefreshloaf.com is a good starter point for understanding how bread works.
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The addition of sugar is just to feed the yeast.
.....which is actually just as happy munching on the flour, it's been years since I've added sugar.
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I'm just doing a loaf now, if it fails :sick: there is always the bin
I did a brown loaf and it came out a little higher :thumbsup:
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The addition of sugar is just to feed the yeast.
.....which is actually just as happy munching on the flour, it's been years since I've added sugar.
I don't add sugar either. I only really bake sandwich loafs and like a pale soft crust and the sugar just darkens the crust.
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The idea is to use the "quick" type of yeast* - the fine grained kind that you're supposed to mix with the flour rather than make up with warm water first. So the bread machine recipe says to put it on the top** so that if you've got a 12-hour delay it doesn't start working until it gets mixed in then you have predictable results. If you mix up the yeast and water it starts fermenting which will be fine if it's not long until it starts being kneaded but if it's set for overnight you don't know what state it will be in then.
Doing it like that has always given very well-risen loaves, to the point that I didn't understand how my machine was supposed to make a 1kg loaf as the 750g recipe almost touched the lid. However, I don't do that any more, I use a sour dough starter which produces a much tastier loaf and denser so I can fit a 1kg loaf in the machine, it's much more like proper home made bread than machine bread. This does mean having to make a loaf every night though.
* Doves Farm do it in a big packet to save spending a fortune on the little sachets
** but as ran doner says, not touching any salt
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I've used both types of dried yeast and, tbh, I've not noticed any difference in the quality of the bread, nor in the rise time. Therefore, I now only use the fine-grained quick yeast (the type that comes in small sachets, but I buy the larger packets by Dove's Farm).
I suggest sticking with the manufacturer's recipe. Don't fix it if it ain't broke! Alternatively, make bread by hand to explore some different methods.
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Sorry but I misquoted Severin's instructions in my original post and your replies prompted me to read them again. Indeed they only state that one should add the yeast last when using a delayed start. However following the order of ingredients on their recipes, yeast always appears last except when fruit, raisins or similar are to be added later.
Making machine bread has been an on/off affair for me for perhaps 10 years as I am the only person that eats it in my house.
I am still interested/intrigued by the Website method of starting the yeast earlier using sugar, yeast and warm water and after 10 minutes when the yeast has started foaming add the remainder of the ingredients and start the basic white loaf process.
Opinions say it produces a tastier loaf but does it make that much difference?
Hoping somebody has tried it and can report their results :)
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The reason I activate the yeast is to check you have a good batch.
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I wouldn't worry about yeast/wet-ingredients separation unless you're using the delay setting.
I've also read about fancy yeast preparation but as the bread machine is all about making the homebake process very simple, I can't see the point of trying it as a bread machine recipe. I may try it by hand as an experiment.
The bog standard bread recipe is so good that I don't see any need to faff. Same reason I also use olive oil instead of butter.
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I am still interested/intrigued by the Website method of starting the yeast earlier using sugar, yeast and warm water and after 10 minutes when the yeast has started foaming add the remainder of the ingredients and start the basic white loaf process.
I used to use this method back when I made bread by hand.
It produces very active yeast and the dough rises a lot.
Hand-kneaded bread gets knocked back, so the excessive rise isn't a problem. I'd worry that in a machine you could end up with dough all over the machine. It could maybe work well if you reduced or left out the sugar.
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I decided not to risk it.
On another bread making Website there were various opposing views which didn't instil much confidence to proceed.
So I plan now to try recipes from other Manufacturers of Bread Machines.
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Thread high-jack, since it is really a bread maker but more a mixer for bread.
I was making a spot of rye bread today, the proper Danish stuff with lots of rye kernels and various seeds, thicker than cement the dough is. Half way trough the mixing the mixer blew and filled the kitchen in nice oily burnt motor smelling smoke. It was old and 2nd/3rd hand.
So I'm looking for a new one, any pointers and recommendations?
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Thread high-jack, since it is really a bread maker but more a mixer for bread.
I was making a spot of rye bread today, the proper Danish stuff with lots of rye kernels and various seeds, thicker than cement the dough is. Half way trough the mixing the mixer blew and filled the kitchen in nice oily burnt motor smelling smoke. It was old and 2nd/3rd hand.
So I'm looking for a new one, any pointers and recommendations?
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tools/d40/Concrete+Mixer/sd3368 :demon:
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hehe thanks :)
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We've got one of these (http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/products/cooking-baking/breadmakers/bm450-bread-maker-0wbm450001).
Not the cheapest but it produces consistent results and a loaf shaped loaf.
Max loaf size is 600g of flour with 380g of water.
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Ah that wouldn't do as I mix a 2Kg bread at the time. It is more mixer than a maker I'm looking for.
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These work quite well. And, you end up with clean hands, too.
(https://thetomatos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/two-hands-clipart-9.jpg)
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Most bread makers will make up to a 1kg loaf. Panasonic breadmakers were the dogs danglies back when the Motley Fool was running, and the SD2511 still seem to get good reviews. We haven't used a bread maker for about 7 years since we moved to hand-made sourdough - all this requires is more patience!
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@Ham as you know about my issue with my hands over the last few years, you should know that is a no go. I had to finish up, after the smoky death of the mixer today, with the potato masher and a wooden spoon and that cream knackered my hands. Also the dough is a sticky as feck, not at all as a white bread loaf that you can kneed an throw around as a ball. If you add enough flour to be able to do that you have killed the rye bread and made a white bread loaf with seeds.
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Given how stiff I think Woolly's dough would be, I reckon an industrial-strength mixer is needed. I know NOTHING about mixers but methinks a weak little 'domestic' motor would BLOW!
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Something like a 1200W or 1400W Kenwood Chef, or similar, ought to have enough grunt, but you're looking at £300-£400+ brand new.
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We've got one of these (http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/products/cooking-baking/breadmakers/bm450-bread-maker-0wbm450001).
Not the cheapest but it produces consistent results and a loaf shaped loaf.
Max loaf size is 600g of flour with 380g of water.
I had a series of those, they all got replaced under guarantee at 11 months as the motor failed - it was used at least once a day but only rarely for rye dough. So probably not tough enough for Wooly's purpose. The motors on the Panasonics have been much more hard-wearing and some models have a rye-dough specific paddle. You can make a larger amount of dough if you're only using it for the knead & first prove stage, but probably not as much as 2 kg.
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Something like a 1200W or 1400W Kenwood Chef, or similar, ought to have enough grunt, but you're looking at £300-£400+ brand new.
+1 for the Kenwood, but make sure it is on very secure footing before making heavy dough. Our first try was maybe a bit too thick, for it detached from the bowl and clumped asymmetrically on the dough hook. The mixer walked off the worktop and the repair cost 147€.
Great mixer, though.
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For a 100% rye recipe I'm not sure I'd trust any domestic machine. I know that one of the best kitchen workouts around is kneading the stuff.
Worthwhile doing as it's gorgeous, but you do need a run up at it.
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Something like a 1200W or 1400W Kenwood Chef, or similar, ought to have enough grunt, but you're looking at £300-£400+ brand new.
+2 I brought a 2nd hand one off ebay a few years ago(would guess at it being late 70's early 80's), on the recommendation of a friend who had a new machine as well as the one she got as a wedding present in early 80's she said when I was thinking of getting one look as 2nd hand as her old one was much better. I had a slight issue with one I picked up off ebay for circa £50 as the speed controller wasn't working properly (googling suggest common issue with older machines) I got it fixed for not a lot at wilkinsons in Skipton. My understanding is the older ones are better made & have parts that are fixable & you can get more gadgets if you so desire
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Had a look at it, it is a Kenwood Chef, though can't see the W's. It was making a very high pitched squeeky sound from the day we got it, Not just I'm loud sound more like I'm broken sound.
I'll have a look out for a secondhand one with some oomph.
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Try getting it repaired at http://www.kenwoodchefrestore.co.uk
As you can see here I got my mum's old one refurbed with a more robust motor.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93931.0
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Thread resurrection!
Considering upping my laziness and efficiency - buying a bread machine that is.
My default bread is heavily seeded and wondered if this is likely to present any problems?
Current loaves are 50/50 strong white/strong wholemeal = 650g + 200g total of 50/50 pumpkin/sunflower seeds.
I see some Panasonics have little hoppers for seeds etc, but can't ascertain their capacity.
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.
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Our first bread maker had a seed dispenser, but I rarely used it. A pal had an identical one, and he did, and he reckoned that the non-stick surface of the bucket had been abraded away in short order. That was many years ago and they may well be a lot better.
I have just made an 80% rye loaf (the other 20% was strong white) and it's really good. Pretty puddingy, but then that's what you want with rye bread. I also added some sugar and used three times as much yeast as I would have done for a white/wholemeal mix.
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I have a Panasonic SD255. It has a fruit/nut/seed dispenser that the instruction manual reckons holds a maximum of 150g of dried fruit/nuts.
I don't have 200g of seeds to measure it for you but the hopper's dimensions are approximately 36*75*100mm
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Thanks JonBuoy :thumbsup: