Grammar that makes you cringe

[mattc]

For 'fewer' fans:
http://notwatchingpointless.wordpress.com/tag/brian-gullivers-travels/

"...
I was listening to a radio serial in bed this morning, Brian Gulliver’s Travels*, in which – much to my sleepy surprise – Brian found himself in the small town of Lessington, formed when the people of Muchington had come to blows over grammatical differences. In Lessington people now ate only chicken nuggets and drank sweetened water; books, newspapers and films longer than three minutes had disappeared, but people were happy. The breakaway town of Furington was full of insufferable pedants, and infinitive-splitting was a criminal offence.  Worst of all, they had created an ironic chicken nugget stand.
"

*on R4 this Wednesday. Series I was excellent - on R7 recently.

[Andrij]

Heard that a while back on R4extra. Oh, how I laughed. 

[greenmeansgo]

an hotel, an historic hotel ... both flat out wrong, but I often see such things published in books and online. Who are these editors who allow such nonsense? You could have an 'otel if it was spoken colloquially, but an hotel? No. I'm not having that. 

[Wowbagger]

Is it not because we have borrowed those words from les Français, qui ne prononcent pas la lettre ache?

[Andrij]

an hotel, an historic hotel ... both flat out wrong, but I often see such things published in books and online. Who are these editors who allow such nonsense? You could have an 'otel if it was spoken colloquially, but an hotel? No. I'm not having that. 

I recall in episode of M*A*S*H a discussion of obtaining "an harmonica" (in taking the piss out of Charles Emerson Winchester III).

[greenmeansgo]

Is it not because we have borrowed those words from les Français, qui ne prononcent pas la lettre ache?

Could be, but it's still wrong. If it's written, you pronounce the "h" (when reading in your head). And while I'm at it setting the world to rights, it's "aitch", not "haitch".

[Bledlow]

Is it not because we have borrowed those words from les Français, qui ne prononcent pas la lettre ache?

You mean like hospital?

[Bledlow]

Whether an initial H is pronounced in French-derived words is fairly arbitrary, & its pronunciation in particular words has often changed over time.

The use of 'an' rather than 'a' before words in which the initial H is pronounced usually reflects a relatively recent change to the pronunciation of H.

It's therefore obsolete, & should be deplored. Before an H which is pronounced, 'a' should always be used. 'An' should only be used before a silent H. When the pronunciation of H changes, the use of a or an should follow suit.

Obey, or I'll start in with "an herb", "an hospital", etc.

[Auntie Helen]

Obey, or I'll start in with "an herb", "an hospital", etc.

But if you're a USAian you would say "an herb" as for some unfathomable reason you pronounce it "erb"

[Ian H]

There's a recent change in English English to pronouncing the 'H' in more words. 'An hotel' was the only acceptable version until the 1960s at least.

[Bledlow]

There's a recent change in English English to pronouncing the 'H' in more words. 'An hotel' was the only acceptable version until the 1960s at least.

Nope. May I quote Henry Watson Fowler (1858-1933)? He said an was "formerly usual before an accented syllable beginning with h," citing an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title and an habitual offender. He continued: "But now that the h in such words is pronounced the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time."

I can't think of anyone whose opinion on such matters is more respected than Fowler's.

PS. It's not a recent change. It's continuous. Words with an initial h which is not pronounced tend to switch to having it pronounced eventually. It's a result of literacy. And remember, it was originally pronounced in all of them, before the French went all Cockney.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I would have accented the second syllable in all those words he lists.

[Chris L]

Britain's biggest retailer takes on local dialect (South London/Surrey)

[drossall]

Should be "owing to" anyway...

[Sergeant Pluck]

It will likely also...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19342994

Is it incorrect grammar, or is it just clumsy? Or is it just me?

[Auntie Helen]

It will likely also...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19342994

Is it incorrect grammar, or is it just clumsy? Or is it just me?

This is something that massively gets up my nose.

We say "probably" where Americans say "likely". For us, "likely" is a synonym for "probable".

However, I note TimO OTP uses "likely" for "probably" all the time so it is clearly crossing the Atlantic, although perhaps only amongst rocket scientists.

[Wowbagger]

However, I note TimO OTP uses "likely" for "probably" all the time so it is clearly crossing the Atlantic, although perhaps only amongst rocket scientists.

Only because it gets there faster.

[mattc]

Pretty sure I just heard "bandwaggoned" from a R4 presenter. _{[should that have 2xg ? ]}

[pcolbeck]

"vinyls" instead of "records". Used in sentences such as "They brought some vinyls round for me to listen to." . It seems a recent construction. Records always used to be the plural (or LPs or 45s if you wanted to be more specific). Vinyl was used as a collective noun as well as in "we played some vinyl" but vinyls whilst I guess grammatically correct simply grates in the same way that "legos" does for more than one lego brick.

[mattc]

Yes, "vinyls" would grate with me too. I cannot explain why! I know similar terms are common elsewhere, such as "acetates".

( "vinyls" would be more appropriate to describe - say - a group of different "xyz-vinyl" chemicals. A bit like "esters". )

[pcolbeck]

... simply grates in the same way that "legos" does for more than one lego brick.

Lego is the company. It makes Lego bricks. Legos to me implies mulitple companies. Lego bricks sounds like multiple Lego pieces, brick shaped or not. Colloquially I hear, "We've got some Lego you can borrow." I think of Lego like sand, there are so many pieces that we treat it as a non-countable item.

Me too but try telling that to an American.

[nicknack]

Oay, the penny drops. Or the cent or dime, I wonder how Americans say they now understand.

The sense of the phrase is probably so rare that there isn't a colloquialism.

[mattc]

Medalling, podiumed .... I give you:

"
"The [Olympic] village did have to be Paralympified," says director of Paralympic integration Chris Holmes.
"

    

(why is Chris Holmes not the Director of Paralympification ? Eh! )

[Julian]

Two separate lawyers this morning, two separate occurrences of "with whom he was living with."

[citoyen]

(If you didn't like broccoli, which would be a better way of putting it: "I don't like broccoli" or "broccoli is not a food"?)

Yebbut, broccoli is not a food... 

d.