Grammar that makes you cringe

[citoyen]

As usual, it's sports (especially football) commentators to blame. Someone came up with using gift to convey the idea of making it too easy for your opponent by performing below the standard expected of you - eg "Arsenal gifted Villa that win." - which would have been quite interesting the first time it was used that way, but it's become a bit of a cliché now.

[Cudzoziemiec]

This, from the index to a report, is completely correct:

4.15 Basis for identification and selection of stakeholders with whom to engage.

But I can't help feeling, especially as it's going to be read by people who don't have English as their first language, it might be better if it weren't. The "with whom" jars, but it's not wrong, so I'll leave it.

It's the word 'stakeholders' that jars with me. They are precisely the people with whom one does not engage (i.e. disinterested parties, 'holding the stake' as they have no interest in a bet going one way or the other). But I think I might have lost that one to the forces of common usage.

The term used for 'stakeholder' in the Polish version is 'interesariusz'. No ambiguity there. All we need now is to introduce the term 'nie-interesariusz'.  More seriously, I don't recall ever hearing the word 'stakeholder' in its other (presumably original) meaning.

[red marley]

It is still commonly used in its original sense in law. Courts often act as stakeholders in disputes.

What I think is interesting is how two almost opposite meanings of the same word can evolve in such a short space of time.

[mattc]

Cleave.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not sure that stakeholder is a Janus word in the same way as cleave or fast. Rather, it's two separate words which happen to be the same but have evolved separately - as opposed to one word developing two opposite meanings. I think this was possible because the original meaning is mostly used in a context (law) with which most people have little contact, while the second is used in a more everyday context, and more importantly because both meanings are logical; the person who holds the stake as a neutral party and the one who holds a stake in the outcome because they have an interest.

[rogerzilla]

And to be "gifted with foresight" or inspiration or a similar quality is still a pretty common saying, IMO.

"Gifted child" is probably the most common use.  Ironically it means "born with natural abilities" rather than being given anything as a gift.

[Bledlow]

Gifted by God. 

[clarion]

* Charlotte Brontë (Jane Eyre "he was just the sort of wild, fierce, bandit hero whom I could have consented to gift with my hand")

'gift with my hand' sounds like a euphemism.

[Bledlow]

Well, it is. But not for what you thought, you naughty boy!

[meddyg]

As usual, it's sports (especially football) commentators to blame.  "Arsenal gifted Villa that win."

Yes, well it's sexing up with cool language something that's actually pretty boring vis.

'and Shahid Ikram  top-scored to get man of the match title'
'he carded 6 on the twelfth and then went on to win'


( I have a little list)

[clarion]

We're almost back to 'medalled'.  Shall I reopen that wound?

[citoyen]

Yes, well it's sexing up with cool language something that's actually pretty boring...
( I have a little list)

Is "sexing up" on the list?

[meddyg]

( I have a little list)

This was after my in-laws were leaving a job in Texas last century


'They were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rosebowl.'



of course whatever goes on across the pond will eventually reach us here...

[Gareth Rees]

'They were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rosebowl.'

The OED says:

farewell, v. To take leave of, bid or say good-bye to

with citations back to 1586. Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) seems to have been particularly fond of the word:

whilst making ready to farewell his folk he heard one of his many farm dogs
whilst I looked on and made sure of death and she farewelled me with her dying eyes
we all made sure of death-doom and each and every one of us farewelled his friend
After he had bidden adieu to everybody except his youngest daughter, he proceeded to farewell her

[Clare]

So, when I was first taught letter writing at school the process included:

Dear Title Surname,
                          blah, blah, blah, blah blah blah etc


Now I have been told that it is policy to have:

Dear Title Surname,
Blah, blah blah blah blah blah etc.


The loss of the inset I can cope with but the capitalisation is really grating.  I was taught that the first letter of the main content should be lower case because it was a continuation of the sentence beginning Dear... the capital letter there just looks wrong.

The person who specified this layout has just sent me an e-mail riddled with grammatical mistakes but she is a manager and therefore is to be obeyed.

I need a new job, preferably with illustrated manuscripts.

[LEE]

We're almost back to 'medalled'.  Shall I reopen that wound?

Jimmy Savile medalled kids, in that he gave them all a "Jim Fixed it for me" medal.

[Gareth Rees]

I was taught that the first letter of the main content should be lower case because it was a continuation of the sentence beginning Dear.

Did your teacher claim that this was the only convention for letter-writing? At the time, I guess it would have been difficult for you to confirm or refute this, but these days the Internet makes it easy to research questions like this. I used Google Book search to search for letter writing model (with preview or full view), and looked at all five relevant results on the first page (the books that give advice on writing letters, not books that describe the sociology of letter-writing). These books start the main content with an upper-case letter:

1001 Letters For All Occasions (2004)
How to Write Better Business Letters (2007)
Analysis of Letter-writing (1872)
The Complete Sales Letter Book (1998)
Martine's perfect letter writer (1866)

I could find no books among the first ten results that advocate starting the content with a lower-case letter. This suggests to me that your teacher's advice was and is a minority view. (Which does not mean you shouldn't do it: these things are just conventions.)

[jsabine]

I too was taught to capitalise.

Indenting - hmm. I've certainly never done it for a typed/WP letter, but I think I always used to start handwritten letters without an indent either. Certainly if I'm writing a card these days I don't indent - would lose too much space ...

[Auntie Helen]

I was taught to capitalise and we were especially taught during the German degree that when writing a letter in German you DON'T capitalise and it's something we get wrong a lot as it feels incorrect to us.

I haven't used indents in letter writing for the last twenty years either, just new paragraphs.

[Clare]

Did your teacher claim that this was the only convention for letter-writing?

I was in primary school and probably about 9 or 10 when I was taught how to set out a formal letter, I don't remember having an in depth discussion about the grammatical rights or wrongs of the process. I don't think either is "the one true way" but one method looks odd if you are used to the other.


Having done a random poll of one other person (Vernon) this house agrees that there should be no capital so it wasn't just my teacher.

[clarion]

I was taught to indent the line for hand-written letters, and found it difficult to remember not to when typing.

As for capitalisation, I was taught that it was a continuation of the sentence which opened with the greeting.

[hellymedic]

I can't remember being taught specifically about capitalisation after the initial salutation. Logically, it would make sense not to capitalise.
I now realise I've started almost every letter with 'I' so the matter is academic.
Oh dear!

[Wombat]

And I was taught that it was the one situation where you used a capital letter after a comma.  As for the indent, they seem to have gone out of fashion quite a few years ago. I did RSA2 wordprocessing about 1998 or so, and it was "out" by then.  That RSA course also strengthened my hate of folk who underline capitalised headings, and generally over-use capitalisation. 

[Biggsy]

I was taught letter writing by my mum, but later simplified it.  Develop your own style.  Rules are for wimps! 

[Cudzoziemiec]

'They were farewelled at the airport and gifted a rosebowl.'

The OED says:

farewell, v. To take leave of, bid or say good-bye to

with citations back to 1586. Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) seems to have been particularly fond of the word:

whilst making ready to farewell his folk he heard one of his many farm dogs
whilst I looked on and made sure of death and she farewelled me with her dying eyes
we all made sure of death-doom and each and every one of us farewelled his friend
After he had bidden adieu to everybody except his youngest daughter, he proceeded to farewell her

I adieued my son when I left him at his friend's house earlier today.