Author Topic: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?  (Read 8005 times)

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #50 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:03:46 pm »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

J

Even at my LBS  they said that they rarely get in used hub gear bikes to resell, and i will be waiting quite some time for one to pop up. They said they always get hybrids donated and they quickly sell them.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #51 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:05:56 pm »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

It's true in as much that:

a) Most bikes in the UK are designed and marketed as sports equipment, rather than a practical means of transport, so those with hub gears are relatively rare.  That most transport cyclists are unwilling to pay for higher-spec bikes probably exacerbates this.

2) Staff in bike shops are generally inclined to recommend the stuff that they're familiar with, and the less ethical ones may exaggerate or invent reasons for you not to buy a product they don't sell.  "Issue getting the parts" may simply mean "we'd have to ring the wholesaler".

iii) There are currently issues getting all kinds of bicycle parts in the UK due to the combination of COVID-19 and brexit.  Buying parts directly from abroad as a consumer has been made unnecessarily difficult by ridiculous UK tax rules.


But yeah, avoid.

Yeah i agree with this. More popular bikes will mean a quick turnaround servicing etc rather than calling a wholesaler getting special parts for a hub gear bike, and i would rather not wait a  long time to get back on the road.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #52 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:07:15 pm »
Commuting? Any luggage? Back when I had a long commute, the best thing I ever had was a Caradice Nelson Long flap, on seatpost quick release. It didn't matter which bike it was on, which ever bike had it on, it was my best commute bike.

Does having a sweaty back make difference to you?
Will you be bringing back any shopping?

Will you take part in the tour de commute?
Do you like to race away from lights.

What are your views on being overtaken?

What clothes will you wear?

A low geared sit up and beg bike with a decent chain guard is best if you ever need business dress.  Hybrids even though they have flat bars, they are still quite aggressive, actually try a sit up and beg city bike.

No luggage, i dont mind a sweaty back, hardly any shopping, i will wear my formal work clothes shirt trousers etc

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #53 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:07:54 pm »
I bought a Subway 8 (hub geared) for one stepson to commute on about 10 years ago. It was an excellent buy, considering the price. Even back then it had hydraulic discs, and Mavic 317 rims. It worked hard for a couple of years before he graduated to a car, and I think we sold it for not far short of what we'd bought it for new.

I'll second the Subway 8 love - worked as a mobile handyman for a couple of years using the older model (Nexus red band not Alfine, roller brakes not disc) for a couple of years. Never missed a beat.

Indeed, if the OP fancied giving hub gears a go, there's one in SE London I could move on for a very reasonable price (or lend for a test ride). Would come with Marathons and mudguards, but I'd be keeping the Tubus rack.

i am pretty sure i am buying a hybrid

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #54 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:09:48 pm »
Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

OP is shopping at Halfords. Nuff said.

Just had a quick look at their website and it looks like the only hub-geared bike they sell under the 'Commuter' category is a Brompton.

Mind you, that's one more hub-geared bike than Decathlon have in their 'City & Commuter' category.

Hardly any wonder that newbie shoppers are put off the idea of hub gears when the whole industry is basically telling them not to bother.

I like halford decathlon etc because of the warranty and choice etc, LBS are normally quite small shops and have a small range of models to choose from.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #55 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:13:13 pm »

I would have put it in terms of "8 speed or above"...

Heuristic for 'freehub not multispeed freewheel' innit ...

Agreed - my bad.


londoncyclist007: This is the traditional point in the thread where it turns into people following their own lines of thought that may or may not relate to your original request. Don't feel obliged to keep responding and saying that you don't want singlespeed or hub gears (or even obliged to respond at all!).


I note that Voodoo Marasas seem to be up on ebay for about £150 less than the price as new. Whether they're selling at this price might be a separate question, but I would hazard a guess that it's going to be a seller's market for a while longer yet. If, after a few months, it turns out that you don't get on with the bike, you can sell it on for probably not too great a loss.

We've probably noted by now all the things that strike us as being red flags. Filtering for those, the main challenges are now going to be finding one that you look at and want to ride, one that fits you, and one that's in stock!

One issue with the marasa is that most advertised on gumtree etc are 20" frames and according to halfords website this is for a 5ft11 to 6ft3 man, i am 5ft9/5ft 10 so need a 18inch frame, they are much harder to find.

I am worried if i go for a 20" and its too big for me i will have to resell it... or can i ride a 20" in comfort? just lower the seat and handles? or is this a mistake?

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #56 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:15:29 pm »
You said in a previous post that you were going to get a secondhand bike from your LBS. What happened to change your mind?
The reason I ask is because getting a bike that actually fits you is as important as which bike you get. I wouldn't trust a random member of halfords staff (I'm aware there are some excellent people there, but...) to be able to choose the right size for me, and make the necessary setup adjustments, so if the choice ends up between Halfords and the LBS, choose the LBS.

In terms of your shortlist, you've got 3 hybrids and 2 road bikes.  If you prefer flat bars, then the Boardman is clearly the best of the 3 (and if correct, the chainset on the Voodoo is baffling (38/36/26t)).

If you like Decathlon, then it might be worth considering something like this instead - it's a bit heavy duty, but it's got dynamo lights and a sensible rack, and you would only need to add a lock, a pump and a spare tube before you are good to go. V brakes are not a problem, though hydraulic disks are nicer. The Boardman is much lighter and sportier (and more expensive), so it depends on what you value about riding a bike.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/hoprider-100-long-distance-city-bike-tall-frame/_/R-p-300910

Because of COVID a  lot of LBS shops dont want walk in customers, they have appointments only, so is difficult for me to just walk in go for a test ride etc.... I dont mind buying from smaller online retailers if they deliver to east london

i will check out the model you linked

thanks

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #57 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:17:41 pm »
Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

OP is shopping at Halfords. Nuff said.

Just had a quick look at their website and it looks like the only hub-geared bike they sell under the 'Commuter' category is a Brompton.

Mind you, that's one more hub-geared bike than Decathlon have in their 'City & Commuter' category.

Hardly any wonder that newbie shoppers are put off the idea of hub gears when the whole industry is basically telling them not to bother.

You have a very good point. Things appear to be changing a little. Just A Small Several of years ago the only options for a hub gear in the UK would be a gas-pipe Chinesium mail-order bike, a bespoke/hipster bike costing ££££, or a Brompton.

I was going to post something along those lines in response to QG on the grounds she is in the NL, before I googled. The Boardman bikes look like reasonable quality entry-level transport bikes and there have been quite a few similar looking bikes in the bike shed at work.

Bike shops have always been like that - Everyone "wants" a mountain bike to ride round London, Everyone wants suspension, Everyone wants a cheap carbon bike with six spokes per wheel, so that's what we're selling.

As for not getting parts, try getting off the shelf parts for any bike more than a few years old which had the latest and greatest groupset at the time of sale which has been obsoleted once a year since. The shop that told you it won't find parts for a hub gear will then be telling you it doesn't have that particular model of cassette, and wouldn't it be better just to upgrade the whole chainset? But they almost certainly do have the chain or cable or sprocket that fits the hub geared bike they didn't want to sell you. I wonder why.

Its confusing for new cyclists if they are getting different advice from LBS , online cylcing forums etc especially if you dont know the lingo or jargon etc

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #58 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:19:23 pm »
And more in response to the OP:

1. Ignore the people who've suggested fixed/single. I say this as someone who has more fixed wheel bikes than gears. They are great in London if you're a seasoned cyclist. Maybe after a few year's commuting it may be for you.

2. Make sure whatever you choose has mounting points for mudguards. You will get wet more often from water on the road than actual rain. And a badger stripe of London grime is never a good look. Or pleasant.

3. Dynamo lights are great, but in London it never actually gets dark. All you need is some cheap Blinky lights to be seen by, and remember to charge them.

4. Hopefully you have somewhere secure to park at work. Otherwise factor in a very expensive lock and check your insurance.

i will be getting mudguards as i want use my bike all year round

i have already bought usb lights from amazon that have good reviews

parking is not an issue at work as i will take it inside the building

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #59 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:19:59 pm »
3. Dynamo lights are great, but in London it never actually gets dark. All you need is some cheap Blinky lights to be seen by, and remember to charge them.

4. Hopefully you have somewhere secure to park at work. Otherwise factor in a very expensive lock and check your insurance.

And the intersection of these two points:  The main advantage of dynamo lights is that you never have to think about lights, they're on the bike ready to go, no need to remove them for charging or so they don't get nicked.

...but they do make the bike more expensive, which is probably a bad idea if you don't have secure parking.

parking is no issue for me at home or at work

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #60 on: 29 March, 2021, 09:23:29 pm »
Also is it a big mistake on my part if i buy a 20 inch frame, that clearly says in the size guide is for a 6ft tall person... but i am 5ft 10? Will this be an issue and it would be dangerous or uncomfortable?

Or can i adjust my ride and lower seat etc and still ride? Shall i just stick with a medium frame or 18" hybrid if thats what it states is my ideal size?

hope someone can help about this issue?

thanks in advance

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #61 on: 29 March, 2021, 10:23:51 pm »

I note that Voodoo Marasas seem to be up on ebay for about £150 less than the price as new. Whether they're selling at this price might be a separate question, but I would hazard a guess that it's going to be a seller's market for a while longer yet. If, after a few months, it turns out that you don't get on with the bike, you can sell it on for probably not too great a loss.

One issue with the marasa is that most advertised on gumtree etc are 20" frames and according to halfords website this is for a 5ft11 to 6ft3 man, i am 5ft9/5ft 10 so need a 18inch frame, they are much harder to find.

I was thinking more in terms of you buying one that fits you, and if it doesn't feel like a long term relationship then you could also sell on ebay for not much less than what you paid for it.


I am worried if i go for a 20" and its too big for me i will have to resell it... or can i ride a 20" in comfort? just lower the seat and handles? or is this a mistake?

How about messaging the ebay sellers of models you're interested in and asking how tall they are and whether their bike fit them well? Quite a few listings give a suggested height range anyway. If you're aware that most of your height is in your upper body or in your legs, you might need to factor this in.

If there's one for sale near to you, you can ask to have a look at it, then go away "to think about it" and then buy from elsewhere if you're not convinced about the provenance of the one you've seen.



How far you can lower the saddle will be affected by the design of the frame - how much seatpost is showing, before things hit the frame tubes.

With the handlebars, you'll be looking to reduce the reach as much as anything - how far away the handlebars are horizontally (you can adjust vertical position a bit too, this is useful to reduce pressure on your hands). Reach on a given bike is mainly determined by stem length. If you buy a bike with a short stem, you have less scope for replacing it with a shorter one.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #62 on: 29 March, 2021, 10:32:46 pm »
Basic bike fit (but you need to be on the bike).



[full size image]

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #63 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:42:54 pm »

I note that Voodoo Marasas seem to be up on ebay for about £150 less than the price as new. Whether they're selling at this price might be a separate question, but I would hazard a guess that it's going to be a seller's market for a while longer yet. If, after a few months, it turns out that you don't get on with the bike, you can sell it on for probably not too great a loss.

One issue with the marasa is that most advertised on gumtree etc are 20" frames and according to halfords website this is for a 5ft11 to 6ft3 man, i am 5ft9/5ft 10 so need a 18inch frame, they are much harder to find.

I was thinking more in terms of you buying one that fits you, and if it doesn't feel like a long term relationship then you could also sell on ebay for not much less than what you paid for it.


I am worried if i go for a 20" and its too big for me i will have to resell it... or can i ride a 20" in comfort? just lower the seat and handles? or is this a mistake?

How about messaging the ebay sellers of models you're interested in and asking how tall they are and whether their bike fit them well? Quite a few listings give a suggested height range anyway. If you're aware that most of your height is in your upper body or in your legs, you might need to factor this in.

If there's one for sale near to you, you can ask to have a look at it, then go away "to think about it" and then buy from elsewhere if you're not convinced about the provenance of the one you've seen.



How far you can lower the saddle will be affected by the design of the frame - how much seatpost is showing, before things hit the frame tubes.

With the handlebars, you'll be looking to reduce the reach as much as anything - how far away the handlebars are horizontally (you can adjust vertical position a bit too, this is useful to reduce pressure on your hands). Reach on a given bike is mainly determined by stem length. If you buy a bike with a short stem, you have less scope for replacing it with a shorter one.

Thanks for the great advice, i think i will generally need a medium/18" as most sized guides on different websites say this, obviously on a test ride it will be clearer if i need a larger frame.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #64 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:51:48 pm »
Also is it a big mistake on my part if i buy a 20 inch frame, that clearly says in the size guide is for a 6ft tall person... but i am 5ft 10? Will this be an issue and it would be dangerous or uncomfortable?

Or can i adjust my ride and lower seat etc and still ride? Shall i just stick with a medium frame or 18" hybrid if thats what it states is my ideal size?

hope someone can help about this issue?

thanks in advance

There's a *lot* of flexibility in bike sizing. Very many sins can be atoned for with a different seatpost or a different stem.

You're in East London somewhere, I'm in SE7. I've got the aforementioned Subway 8 (vaguely for sale, but not aggressively), and a quite nice Marin hybrid (not for sale, but closer to what you seem to have decided you want), both rideable by anyone between about 5'4"/5'6" and 6'2" if they're set up right, and a selection of stems and other bits.

If you want to come for a chat about bikes, and a ride on a couple, and a beer or a coffee, you'd be more than welcome.

(ETA - Subway is 18", Marin is about 20", and the gearing systems don't make any difference to sizing ...)

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #65 on: 29 March, 2021, 11:57:26 pm »
Also is it a big mistake on my part if i buy a 20 inch frame, that clearly says in the size guide is for a 6ft tall person... but i am 5ft 10? Will this be an issue and it would be dangerous or uncomfortable?

Or can i adjust my ride and lower seat etc and still ride? Shall i just stick with a medium frame or 18" hybrid if thats what it states is my ideal size?

hope someone can help about this issue?

thanks in advance

There's a *lot* of flexibility in bike sizing. Very many sins can be atoned for with a different seatpost or a different stem.

You're in East London somewhere, I'm in SE7. I've got the aforementioned Subway 8 (vaguely for sale, but not aggressively), and a quite nice Marin hybrid (not for sale, but closer to what you seem to have decided you want), both rideable by anyone between about 5'4" and 6'2" if they're set up right, and a selection of stems and other bits.

If you want to come for a chat about bikes, and a ride on a couple, and a beer or a coffee, you'd be more than welcome.

Wow, cheers mate i appreciate your offer.

You can tell how new i am by the basic questions i'm asking! :-)

I will have to go to my LBS and try a few models of bikes, hopefully when we come out out lockdown soon, all the local bike shops will be back to normal where the public can just walk in and test ride bikes.

Thanks everyone who has helped me so far.

This forum is amazing especially for new cyclists like me

Thanks

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #66 on: 30 March, 2021, 12:25:35 am »
It's not a wholly altruistic offer - like many here, I'm on the lookout for new victims to whom I can chat shit about bikes ...

Seriously though, if you want to, drop me a line - by PM, or post on the thread. A couple of rides on bikes you know you aren't buying can be helpful before going to a shop and trying bikes you might.

They can also start to answer questions about fit and sizing, though you can go a very long way down those rabbit holes ...

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #67 on: 30 March, 2021, 12:31:02 am »
It's not a wholly altruistic offer - like many here, I'm on the lookout for new victims to whom I can chat shit about bikes ...

Seriously though, if you want to, drop me a line - by PM, or post on the thread. A couple of rides on bikes you know you aren't buying can be helpful before going to a shop and trying bikes you might.

They can also start to answer questions about fit and sizing, though you can go a very long way down those rabbit holes ...

cheers

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #68 on: 30 March, 2021, 12:49:30 am »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

J

Even at my LBS  they said that they rarely get in used hub gear bikes to resell, and i will be waiting quite some time for one to pop up. They said they always get hybrids donated and they quickly sell them.

There you have just given the best reasons possible for buying something with hub gears and avoiding a cheap secondhand hybrid.
What has happened to hub gears in the UK? This is the country that gave the world the 3speed hub gear, a device equally at home on thousands (millions even) of utility commuter bikes and also lightweight tourers. (I have a soft spot for the SA AW hub and I am not alone in this!) The Shimano Alfine 8 and Nexux 7 and 8 hubs are fine tools that simply appreciate being lubricated from time to time (Nexux 7 hubs are on all the Limoges electric hire fleet and give no trouble at all - there now about 1400 of these bikes with a long waiting list of customers in waiting, one of our few urban cycling successes). My Alfine 8 was bought secondhand for 30€ several years ago. Only spare part changed (apart from the sprocket, which is not a rare spare since it's the same as an SA or Sachs one) is  an external seal, cheap and easy to get hold of.

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #69 on: 30 March, 2021, 12:56:09 am »
Single speed is not an option for me due to hills on my commute

Hub gears bikes are not popular and there may be an issue getting parts etc

i will stick with a hybrid commuter

Which ever sales moron at a shop told you that. Do not go back to that shop. That's bollocks.

J

Even at my LBS  they said that they rarely get in used hub gear bikes to resell, and i will be waiting quite some time for one to pop up. They said they always get hybrids donated and they quickly sell them.

There you have just given the best reasons possible for buying something with hub gears and avoiding a cheap secondhand hybrid.
What has happened to hub gears in the UK? This is the country that gave the world the 3speed hub gear, a device equally at home on thousands (millions even) of utility commuter bikes and also lightweight tourers. (I have a soft spot for the SA AW hub and I am not alone in this!) The Shimano Alfine 8 and Nexux 7 and 8 hubs are fine tools that simply appreciate being lubricated from time to time (Nexux 7 hubs are on all the Limoges electric hire fleet and give no trouble at all - there now about 1400 of these bikes with a long waiting list of customers in waiting, one of our few urban cycling successes). My Alfine 8 was bought secondhand for 30€ several years ago. Only spare part changed (apart from the sprocket, which is not a rare spare since it's the same as an SA or Sachs one) is  an external seal, cheap and easy to get hold of.

i think hub gears are more popular in europe especially holland etc, but the uk public dont seem to be interested in these types of bikes

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #70 on: 30 March, 2021, 03:54:01 am »
Just to add that my point about mentioning the Subway 8 wasn't that you 'should' buy a hub-geared bike, but that the Subway is a good solid commuter and has been for many years in its various guises (it's been produced as fixed, single speed, hub 8, and 2x with dérailleurs) . The hub gear is, I think, a bonus for reliability, but it's not a deal breaker.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #71 on: 30 March, 2021, 11:09:15 am »
i think hub gears are more popular in europe especially holland etc, but the uk public dont seem to be interested in these types of bikes

The Dutch have an interesting relationship with bikes. And I say this sitting in the biggest city in .NL.

The reason that the Dutch love hub gears is that the Dutch language seems to have no word for "maintenance". You will see them riding round on bikes that squeak, that rattle, and have wheels that rotate on three different axis at once. It's an absolute wonder that they can make any forward momentum at all.

The thing with them is, that for many Dutch people, they will buy a bike, and unless they get a puncture, will have no work done on it in the entire life cycle of the machine. They will literally run it into the ground. Leave it locked up at a station somewhere, and then buy a new one.

The comment from your LBS about hub gears is basically summed up with this:



Having worked in a bike shop, in the Netherlands. I hate. *HATE* hub gears. Esp as they usually come with fuck tons of armour plating. Give me a di2 ultegra bike any day. But, from an end user point of view. They Just Work™. All of the downsides are basically shifted onto the mechanic doing the work.

I have an 8 Speed Sturmey Archer on my Brompton. I replace the cable every few thousand kilometers. And even then that's probably not necessary.

Ultimately, you pays your money and makes your choice.

But I think your LBS sales droid is talking out his arse.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Davef

Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #72 on: 30 March, 2021, 11:38:48 am »
That seems a bit harsh. The sales assistant said hub gears are not popular (with an implied in the U.K.) and that might cause issues with maintenance.

I would agree. Hub gears are relatively rare in the U.K. these days. Bike shops might not have parts in stock nor the knowledge to deal with them.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #73 on: 30 March, 2021, 11:49:16 am »
That seems a bit harsh. The sales assistant said hub gears are not popular (with an implied in the U.K.) and that might cause issues with maintenance.

I would agree. Hub gears are relatively rare in the U.K. these days. Bike shops might not have parts in stock nor the knowledge to deal with them.

Which "sales assistant" actually said this? I've checked back over the thread and the OP seems to be quoting their own assumptions rather than any advice they've been given.

Am I missing something?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Best bike out of my shortlist of 5?
« Reply #74 on: 30 March, 2021, 11:50:57 am »
None of this actually matters, as the OP is looking to buying an off-the-shelf bike in a price range where there aren't any hub geared bikes available anyway.