Class based accents in other countries

[arabella]

"Outwith" is a great word, and I don't know why it's not used outwith Scotland. Though interestingly, the (Scottish) organisation I work for advises us not to use it because non-Scots might not understand it.

that's because we have "without" - the original sense of which was "outwith" (qf the hymn "there is a green hill far away without a city wall")

[bobb]

A friend of mine (French) once told me that a Chav in France would be a Ch'tis (pronounced shtee). IIRC the word is based on the sound of the accent. So I guess it's kind of the French equivalent of young, white oiks here talking like they're Jamaican Yardees...

[Ham]

Yes, but even when you can speak a language, determining accents in foreign language is astonishingly difficult. And, it tends to be regions rather than class, eg Valais inhabitants are the "Irish" of swiss humour, Breton or Picards serve in France  (I think)

AFAIK, the correct designation of the Ch'ti are the Picards

[Ian H]

Yes, but even when you can speak a language, determining accents in foreign language is astonishingly difficult. And, it tends to be regions rather than class, eg Valais inhabitants are the "Irish" of swiss humour, Breton or Picards serve in France  (I think)

Region and class are partly linked though. It would be unlikely to hear an accent that was both archetypally Northern and archetypally posh.

Accents perceived as 'lower class' tend to be regional (London is a region) with non-standard or regional grammar.  Grammatical difference seems to be more of a marker than accent.

[Ivo]

Yes, but even when you can speak a language, determining accents in foreign language is astonishingly difficult. And, it tends to be regions rather than class, eg Valais inhabitants are the "Irish" of swiss humour, Breton or Picards serve in France  (I think)

AFAIK, the correct designation of the Ch'ti are the Picards

The area next to French Flanders.
(the Film Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis is incorrect in the sense that Bergues is a French-Flemish town and not a Ch'ti town)

[hatler]

The movie Das Boot gives the U-boat crew a wide variety of German and Austrian accents and some of the rougher characters have accents from less salubrious areas.

My chap comes from the Kurpfalz region near Mannheim and there is a character on Das Boot who speaks with exactly this dialect. Klaus gets really excited about it every time we watch Das Boot.

Klaus now speaks normal-sounding German with a neutral accent but when speaking with his father slips back into dialect - different endings on verbs etc. it’s really interesting to hear.

Hannover people speak posh, Bayern are country bumpkins and Niedersachsen people just sound funny, apparently.

So-called “German-speaking” regions of Switzerland speak something so far removed from German As She Is Spoke that even Miss von Brandenburg could barely grok what they were banging on about.

And as for Austrians…

The way I had it explained to me was that the line of 'who takes the piss out of who' starts from northern Germany and runs down to Bavaria, thence to Austria, where it runs from east to west, and then into Switzerland, though I'm unaware of where the line runs to and from in Switz.

[hatler]

On the 'bad grammar' thing. I heard a linguist on the radio (years ago) explain that 'youth' culture accused of 'appalling grammar' was simply using different grammar rules. What was truly surprising was that adherence to the rules in youth culture was far stricter than in other cultural groups that looked down on the poor grammar of the youth.

[Kim]

Yebbut an accent you can't place geographically or socially is still an accent. Probably.

Brummies tend to assume barakta's nonspecific-speech-therapy-northern means she's public-school posh.  Sometimes with hilarious consequences.

[perpetual dan]

There is still very much a view here that Gaelic and Scots are base and that the language of quality is the queen's English... Except you'll soon catch them out when they use words like outwith and proven, without thinking, and when you ask them a question they answer with one.
Deluded I tell ye.

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"Outwith" is a word I can only recall encountering in the context of trade unions.

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Daily usage here.
No idea how Standard English works without it, how can you possibly say that something is outwith your authority, comprehension etc. without it?

Don’t admit to it. Easier to ask forgiveness etc,

[Mr Larrington]

The movie Das Boot gives the U-boat crew a wide variety of German and Austrian accents and some of the rougher characters have accents from less salubrious areas.

My chap comes from the Kurpfalz region near Mannheim and there is a character on Das Boot who speaks with exactly this dialect. Klaus gets really excited about it every time we watch Das Boot.

Klaus now speaks normal-sounding German with a neutral accent but when speaking with his father slips back into dialect - different endings on verbs etc. it’s really interesting to hear.

Hannover people speak posh, Bayern are country bumpkins and Niedersachsen people just sound funny, apparently.

So-called “German-speaking” regions of Switzerland speak something so far removed from German As She Is Spoke that even Miss von Brandenburg could barely grok what they were banging on about.

And as for Austrians…

The way I had it explained to me was that the line of 'who takes the piss out of who' starts from northern Germany and runs down to Bavaria, thence to Austria, where it runs from east to west, and then into Switzerland, though I'm unaware of where the line runs to and from in Switz.

There’s also Ost-Friesland, which in the matter of jokes is to the rest of Germany as Ireland is to England or Poland to USAnia.