Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: pompey phill on 03 January, 2010, 07:52:30 am
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Hello all,
just wondering if anyone else is having as much fun as I am trying to get a refund of my entry fee, or what ever it is I'm due back from the "organisation" that ran the LEL. I've had dates and excuses for months now and still nothing. I've been informed that it will be sent out with the Brevet cards. so has any one got their cards back yet ?? I was told that the "organisation" where waiting for the cards to be sent back to them before they could be sent out ??
sorry for the rant but I think I've been pretty patient with the "organisers" but it has worn thin now.
>:( >:( >:( >:(
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hope to get my card back before the next LEL,well thats the bet i have placed with ladbrooks.
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I can't make out the postmark but the envelope my 2005 card came to me in bears a Christmas stamp and I think it came back after Christmas.
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you kept the envelope??
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you kept the envelope??
Yes, to keep the card and medal together.
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You're impressively well-organised. The only thing I have ever kept was my PBP finisher's "medal/plaque", last seen when we moved into this house three years ago ... I think it's somewhere in the loft :)
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I understand that Mel got the completed brevet cards either just before or at the AGM in late November.
I believe that she was not prepared to hand over the envelopes to others to allow quick dispatch of brevets to all finishers.
Minor query in my mind - as to whether she has mislaid the envelopes - but all being well she will get round to the task of marrying cards and envelopes one day.
Long communication delays do seem to be par for the course sadly.
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my enquiry is about a refund though.
as to why that can't be posted out regardless of the Brevet cards, is what I'm finding hard to come to terms with.
Oh well I'm sure it will be forthcoming at some point ? ? ? ?
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Maybe the event made a loss despite the AUK subsidy - and that there is no money in the LEL pot - so a refund comes from her own pocket - hence the delay
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I believe that she was not prepared to hand over the envelopes to others to allow quick dispatch of brevets to all finishers.
This lack of trust in anyone else seems to have been a recurring theme with LEL organisation. Let's hope that the next one has a proper management structure. I'm sure Mel worked her butt off but you can' organise an event like that on your own, and it showed.
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This lack of trust in anyone else seems to have been a recurring theme with LEL organisation. Let's hope that the next one has a proper management structure. I'm sure Mel worked her butt off but you can' organise an event like that on your own, and it showed.
It will have. The committee will discuss this (at length, presumably) in February, and commit to a team and an approach. So far, as far as I'm aware, only the interim committee (all bar one of whom are regular posters on here) have put their name in the hat. If anyone else wants to, they'll have to move fast.
I don't think there is anyone on the committee who thinks that LEL can be run by anything other than a team of experienced audaxers.
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The AGM agreed to allow AUK to run the event directly, rather than just having its usual oversight. What happens next is the committee will decide how to run LEL, and who will do it.
There are six members of the interim committee that AUK appointed in September. Three are AUK committee members, namely myself, Keith Harrison/Sue Gatehouse (Keeef) and Sheila Simpson. There are also Fidgetbuzz, JohnH (he of the Mille Cymru) and Mantotea on the committee, with significant input from Ivo, Lynn Hedley and Nigel Hall.
Top of my head, there are also five controllers committed (insofar as you can at this stage), four of whom ran controls in 2009. This is in addition to the three controllers from 2009 who are now on the LEL interim committee.
I have a proper chart somewhere. No doubt you'll all get to see it one day soon.
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All very interesting chaps but does not help Pompey Phill with his OP.
H
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All very interesting chaps but does not help Pompey Phill with his OP.
H
To answer P Phils question. No. I am not having as much fun as he is. I am not trying to get a refund.
Is that better ?
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All very interesting chaps but does not help Pompey Phill with his OP.
H
To answer P Phils question. No. I am not having as much fun as he is. I am not trying to get a refund.
Is that better ?
No, not really and not particularly helpful.
H
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I'm not sure that PP should expect a refund - if I enter an event and call off - I do not expect a refund.
Now maybe LEL in view of magnitude is different - but I suspect that Mel is looking at a break even at best on the event - and so will be trying to avoid paying refunds of either deposits or full entry fees to all those who didnt ride.
I would have thought that the only way to get a refund if it is due - would be to keep pressuring Mel so much that she finally makes a payment just to stop the hassle.While applying any pressure that PP can - he might like to add that all his mates are still waiting for their brevet cards.
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Is that what this is about?
AUK Reg 5.4 "... Entry fees are not refundable."
If OTOH its a partial refund for no photo or somesuch, if that happens it would make sense to enclose it with the brevet card.
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Before we go off on one about refunds, I believe PP had a medical reason for withdrawing. So maybe a bit of sensitivity is needed.
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But that is all factored into the entry fee.
Entries were solicited a long way in advance of the event. This means that there would always be a significant number of non-starters among those entries, for all sorts of good reasons. Recognising that from the outset may have shaved £20 off the entry fee that was charged. Most good Organisers instinctively do this, in a smaller way.
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I'm not sure that PP should expect a refund - if I enter an event and call off - I do not expect a refund.
In the LEL FAQ:
Full refunds are at the organisers discretion and are subject to a cancellation fee of 20%. Contact me ASAP if you want to withdraw from LEL.
As I understand it, Phil has been told by the organiser that he should expect a refund and that this will be sent out when the Brevet cards go out. Hence the reason for this thread.
The reasons why he qualifies for a refund and whether or not he should have expected it are completely irrelevant IMHO. He has been told he will get a refund and expects the organiser to make good with the promise.
H
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So we are back to the brevet card position, as PP has been told he is getting a refund. Still think that the event is at break even at best - so this could be a factor.
I know that Keith and Sue offered to do the matching of cards and envelopes about a week before the AGM -- I would have gone along and helped as well. Mel declined to hand the envelopes over - I have no idea why.
Can we offer her any help now - or do we just sit and wait - and if she never gets round to it - then we never get our brevet cards back
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E-Mailing Mel won't help untill her computer is repaired.
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Thought it was only me who had not received Brevet card. Only way i got any joy out of organiser was to write official complaint to CTC secretary, and that was just to get my entry confirmed.
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Thought it was only me who had not received Brevet card. Only way i got any joy out of organiser was to write official complaint to CTC secretary, and that was just to get my entry confirmed.
WHo is the CTC secretary ? What does this have to do with the CTC ?
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Maybe my mistake! But i wrote to Shiela Simpson and Kieth Benton managed to pry my entry time and number from Mel.
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Reading these Posts as a total outsider, may I say that the Administration side of this event appears to need a complete overhaul ;)
Otherwise cyclists will just lose confidence in it.
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Reading these Posts as a total outsider, may I say that the Administration side of this event appears to need a complete overhaul ;)
Otherwise cyclists will just lose confidence in it.
It's getting it as Danial pointed out. The 2009 edition was a great event for most of us.
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Reading these Posts as a total outsider, may I say that the Administration side of this event appears to need a complete overhaul ;)
Otherwise cyclists will just lose confidence in it.
It's getting it as Danial pointed out. The 2009 edition was a great event for most of us.
Absolutely.
My understanding is that it has been recognised that the organisation requires a different approach in 2013 but that should in no way detract from what was a very enjoyable few days on a great event.
H
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I know all the riders enjoyed it but the Administration is failing the participants rather badly.
The new approach should be settled quickly, efficiently and acted upon now. The fact that someone's Computer is being repaired is no excuse.
In my racing days, Computers had not been invented and yet we never experienced abnormal delays like this in receiving our results by Royal Mail ;)
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Nobody is waiting for any results. Everybody who rode knows their own result and the finishers list is available on the AUK website.
FWIW, I thought the event was a great success
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For everyone who did the ride (myself included) the administrative/organisational difficulties were soon forgotten; quickly overwritten by the great memories of the ride itself, the fellow riders, the excellent controls and controllers/helpers, random members of the public, the scenery, etc.
Standing in a queue for 4 hours waiting to collect the brevet card, bottles and other stuff (for example) is easy compared to riding 1400km.
It's a shame that the people who entered but couldn't ride are having a problem getting agreed refunds, they should have been sorted out as soon as possible after they informed Mel that they couldn't ride. I don't mind my Brevet card being delayed by a month or two so that others can get their refunds, it'll get to me eventually.
The majority of the remaining complaints are from people who didn't ride (and who had no intention of riding) but are annoyed on others' behalf. There's no need to be annoyed on my behalf.
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but the brevet card is the history of my ride,ok i have hundreds but for some this was there first long ride and many spent along time training for it. finally it reflects very badly on AUDAX its self,which is not good at all the auk committee should be dealing with this as a matter of urgency!!
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There is the problem - technically AUk have no control over the organiser for 2009,( theoretically they neither have the return envelopes or completed brevet cards in their possession) and why they intend to change the system for 2013. Nor can they force Mel to attend to the matter of refunds.
The current position may reflect badly on AUK ( personally I think it does ) that nearly 6 months after the event the final admin details - refunds, brevet cards etc have not been sorted - but Auk is in a tricky position -- how to make things happen when assistance has been declined -and history suggests that attention to both detail and legitimate queries has been minimal.
The event was a great success - but this was entirely due to all of the volunteers who refused to allow the event to fail.
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The event was a great success - but this was entirely due to all of the volunteers who refused to allow the event to fail.
That isn't true. LEL 2009 Ltd did have some input and the couple of hundred successful riders played their part. It wasn't entirely due to all of the volunteers.
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+1 Fidgetbuzz.
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postie sums up the situation nicely. The Organizers whoever they are should act to correct the situation.
I just hope that all the riders can and will be happy, not only with the event, but also with an improved Administration 8)
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Whilst all these opinions, suppositions and observations are all part of posting something like this on an Internet forum, it occurs to me that all discussion would be knocked on the head if someone who can really answer:
1. When the Brevet cards are likely to be sent out
2. When Pompey Phil is likely to get his refund.
..... posted it on here or found some other means of communicating it to those affected.
I am particularly interested in point 1 as this affects me directly.
Apologies if either of these points have been covered off elsewhere.
H
P.S.
If the delay in the Brevet cards being sent out is one of resourcing then I am happy to take this on if AUK can send me the cards, mailing list and are able to cover the cost of the postage.
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According to Fidgetbuzz above, AUK do not have the cards.
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So who has got them?
Why all this mystery?
The Admin Members I believe are on this Forum.
Why cannot somebody responsible provide an answer? ::-)
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So who has got them?
As I understand it, the LEL organiser has them. This is not Audax UK but one single person who just happens to be a member of Audax UK.
As someone has written above, her computer is broken at the moment, which may be hindering her attempts at getting through the remaining admin tasks.
Why all this mystery?
Because the LEL organiser isn't responding to any queries, including queries about why she's not responding to anything.
The Admin Members I believe are on this Forum.
Some admin members of Audax UK are on this forum, but LEL is not organised by Audax UK, only on behalf of Audax UK.
Audax UK could probably officially ask Mel what's going on, but I don't think they're overly concerned with the time it's taking, and they too may not get a response.
Why cannot somebody responsible provide an answer? ::-)
See above: because the one person who can isn't responding to questions.
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Greenbank. You seem to have a handle on this. Are you in direct contact with Mel or party to decisions made within AUK?
If so please forward my offer of help.
H
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Greenbank. You seem to have a handle on this. Are you in direct contact with Mel or party to decisions made within AUK?
Nope, I'm just summarising what I've read here. I haven't spoken to her since LEL itself.
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Oh, I see.
Well, perhaps if someone who does have direct contact with Mel or the AUK powers can forward my offer it would be appreciated.
H
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maybe you can search the web for the LEL website and see if there is a phone number on. If so give the organiser a call. Aimed at PompeyPhil in particular.
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What a frustrating situation ::-)
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Thanks Martin & Bard but I think Phil might already have this.
H
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Oh yes, forgot to post this:-
Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/audax/message/33137)
Dec 27th post from Ivo:-
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There are a lot of people involved in processing&returning the cards,
the validation stickers for example arrived only recently at
Keith&Sue's place due to the relevant LRM officer being ill.
"
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I would like to have my brevet card back at some point. But I can wait.
One thing I won't do is pester Mel about it, because:
- it will waste her time
- it's not as if it's just my card that's gone missing. Nothing useful will be gained by chasing my card.
- it's only a piece of paper. Auk's records show I completed the ride.
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Oh yes, forgot to post this:-
Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/audax/message/33137)
Dec 27th post from Ivo:-
"
There are a lot of people involved in processing&returning the cards,
the validation stickers for example arrived only recently at
Keith&Sue's place due to the relevant LRM officer being ill.
"
:thumbsup:
Cheers.
Will keep a lookout there for an update.
H
P.S.
Contacted Mel to see if she needed any help with getting her PC sorted but she has this in hand.
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Ivo's posting is not "accurate" datewise - it "suggests" that brevet cards validated by the French only reached S & K in mid late Dec. Not correct they were here in Norwich about a week prior to the AGM in late Nov.
Mel however declined the offer that a Norwich team would get them out pdq if she would hand over the entrants return envelopes - this may have had something to do with the upcoming AGM - and possible sensitivity to the Treasurers report which included the reference to writing off £5000 - I purely speculate.
So no delay due to our validation secretaries I can assure you.
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I don't think Ivo was blaming Keith & Sue.
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I'm usually a bit hesitant to see personal info posted on the web, but ... points out this is publicly-available...
If anyone objects then let me know...
That's true MV, but this forum has a much wider audience... I think it needs removing.
Shaun
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Brevet Card arrived today. :)
[EDIT] Since it has come from the validators I doubt it will include any refunds etc. It says to contact the organiser directly for any outstanding matters.
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If you rode LEL2009, it would help enormously if you could complete a short questionnaire about your experience of the event. Click on Audax UK (http://www.aukweb.net), and follow the link at the top of the frontpage.
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Got my card, filled the questionnaire in. I didn't see any section for things we thought went well.
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My Brevet card arrived today too. ;D
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I didn't see any section for things we thought went well.
For the online one, the top one is a general "did you enjoy it", I put all of my positive comments in there, using most of the categories listed below it.
I then put the individual negative comments and problems in the sections below.
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I thought of that afterwards. ::-)
As for negatives, the only ones I put were the queuing at the start and Eskdalemuir sleeping facilities being overloaded. Everything else has met or exceeded my expectations.
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Main gripes:-
Queueing/administration gripe. (Cards should have been pre-filled in, or done by a team of people.)
SAEs provided but not used.
Photos provided but not used.
Website not updated (when it said it would be).
Could have done with a bespoke brevet card for the event (the outside, not the control list on the inside).
Eskdalemuir overcrowding (mainly due to tailwind and poor weather).
Route between Sleaford and Ruskington.
Other than that, utterly fantastic.
Now to find a frame for the Brevet Card, rider number and little medal thingy.
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I like my PBP card being different. Wonder what the italian ride will have.
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Wonder what the italian ride will have.
Last time there was a sheet of paper (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3016653937_5512be0d9d_b.jpg) for stamping and a certificate and medal at the end
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3464504735_0ffea180db.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner/3464504735/)
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[EDIT] Since it has come from the validators I doubt it will include any refunds etc. It says to contact the organiser directly for any outstanding matters.
I understand that for Pompey Phill, that has been sorted too and was received a week before the Brevet cards.
H
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Jolly good.
I'll be framing my Brevet Card along with my frame number and the little medal thingy.
One of those "LP Cover" frames is about the perfect size.
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My frame number has been prominently displayed at work a few months now. No-one has commented so far.
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My frame number is still on my bike, should take it off though since the new season started.
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No idea where my frame number is but I do know it's around somewhere. I got quite excited when I saw this thread over the weekend and I bounded out the door to meet the postie this morning but sadly he only had the usual Monday advertising stuff. Maybe tomorrow....
I like the idea of mounting card, medal and frame number in a 'gold disc' like frame though. Might have a look around and see what I can find picture frame wise!
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Jolly good.
I'll be framing my Brevet Card along with my frame number and the little medal thingy.
One of those "LP Cover" frames is about the perfect size.
I think you should put your sprocket in there (once its worn out, obviously).
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Jolly good.
I'll be framing my Brevet Card along with my frame number and the little medal thingy.
One of those "LP Cover" frames is about the perfect size.
I think you should put your sprocket in there (once its worn out, obviously).
Nice idea but it's an EAI steel sprocket so it'll be a decade or two before it's gone at 5000 miles a year.
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Just checking out the questionnaire. When it says 'Choice of LEL route' does it mean the one the organisers chose or the one that I chose. Water was hard to find between Huntingdon and Peterborough and I had to resort to the guardhouse at RAF Alconbury.
Damon.
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Jolly good.
I'll be framing my Brevet Card along with my frame number and the little medal thingy.
One of those "LP Cover" frames is about the perfect size.
Brevet card arrived - is now in recycling bin
Maybe I'm just not sentimental enough :-[
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Just checking out the questionnaire. When it says 'Choice of LEL route' does it mean the one the organisers chose or the one that I chose. Water was hard to find between Huntingdon and Peterborough and I had to resort to the guardhouse at RAF Alconbury.
Damon.
It occurs to me that the DNFs won't have received this questionnaire. Their views might be useful.
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Jolly good.
I'll be framing my Brevet Card along with my frame number and the little medal thingy.
One of those "LP Cover" frames is about the perfect size.
Brevet card arrived - is now in recycling bin
Maybe I'm just not sentimental enough :-[
I'm not sure even where mine is. Oh, I am now - it's still in a scanner. TBH it was safer with Mel. :)
It's just a piece of paper. The real value is in the achievement, non?
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Yup, just a bit of paper. Handy to have the Brevet numbers written down somewhere though, I'll need that for my ACP Brevet 5000 if I complete the remaining ride I need.
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. TBH it was safer with Mel. :)
It never got to Mel as there were "issues" - so AUK decided to hold the cards and finally decided to pay the extra postage to send out all cards, as the riders sae could not be accessed.
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What was the timescale for informing the organiser of LEL that you were a non starter ?.I e-mailed about about 4-5 weeks before the start. I must admit I did'nt expect anything back, but having just found this thread it's set me thinking.I can well understand that food and services would have been purchased in advance and that the monies would have to come from somewhere.
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Wonder what the italian ride will have.
Last time there was a sheet of paper (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3016653937_5512be0d9d_b.jpg) for stamping and a certificate and medal at the end
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3464504735_0ffea180db.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner/3464504735/)
Everytime I see this I think it would make a good teatowel
Infact everytime I see it I think it is a teatowel!
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Me too!
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What was the timescale for informing the organiser of LEL that you were a non starter ?.I e-mailed about about 4-5 weeks before the start. I must admit I did'nt expect anything back, but having just found this thread it's set me thinking.I can well understand that food and services would have been purchased in advance and that the monies would have to come from somewhere.
I understood the entry fee was NOT refundable unless the person withdrawing from LEL was able to help out at a control. Is that the case?
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What was the timescale for informing the organiser of LEL that you were a non starter ?.I e-mailed about about 4-5 weeks before the start. I must admit I did'nt expect anything back, but having just found this thread it's set me thinking.I can well understand that food and services would have been purchased in advance and that the monies would have to come from somewhere.
I understood the entry fee was NOT refundable unless the person withdrawing from LEL was able to help out at a control. Is that the case?
It was refundable only at discretion of the organiser. In practice this sort of phrase means that the nearer to the starttime you pull out of the start list, the better your story has to be to get a refund. Generally speaking, a doctor's letter that you're unable to start due to an injury gives you a bigger chance to get a refund as something in the line of motivational problems or not fit enough.
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My validated card arrived today! :D
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Is anyone else still waiting for their brevet? VeloYellow's hasn't made it back yet and we are wondering who to check with.
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Is anyone else still waiting for their brevet?
I haven't got my Brevet card either, and don't know who/where to ask.
Tal.
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Is anyone else still waiting for their brevet?
I haven't got my Brevet card either, and don't know who/where to ask.
Tal.
Hi Tal
I have your (unaddressed) card. PM me your address and it will be in the post to you tomorrow.
Keith
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I haven't got my Brevet card either
edit: it's on its way
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I haven't got my Brevet card either
Henk Verouden, Holland but living in France
Robert Lammerts has your card. You can contact him through the Dutch E-mail list.
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I am rider number 359, I have not got the brevet card, please tell me whom I have to contact with
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Most of the cards have now been returned to their owners. Some have gone to national organisations for onward distribution.
We still have a small number of cards where we have been unable to find a valid postal address. We've been very wary of posting them without first verifying the address, since many were scribbled or seem incomplete.
If you haven't yet received your card, PM me and we can talk.
Cheers, Keith
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Yay! VeloYellow's brevet has arrived. Delivered to Australia by
carrier pigeon Swallow. Thanks Judith. (And very well done on your Perth-Albany-Perth ride)