TCR no8.

[Frank9755]

It's pretty much been said though!

Anna's final comment before closing it down seems to confirm that she doesn't understand the duty of care regarding a compulsory section.  Saying other bits of the event are also dangerous due to cars doesn't take away the need for there to be a risk assessment carried out and plans out in place for identified risks.

On a factual point, there are not adequate resupply options immediately before the parcours.  Also you can research the track as much as you want but all you will get is accounts / videos of people doing it on mountain bikes,  which really doesn't tell you much. Hence at least two of the top riders (Christoph Strasser and Ian To)  went out to ride it themselves beforehand.

[Notfromrugby]

I think the biggest threat to the race is this attitude, combined with a fundamental misunderstanding of the duty of care that rests with Lost Dot,  legally as well as morally, when it sends riders into potentially hazardous compulsory mountain sections. If it ever came to it, their position would be shredded by, most likely, an insurance company's barrister, and it would be the end of the race.

Yep, I think you are right.

[Nuncio]

I liked your brief interview on the podcast Frank.

There are still a handful or riders plugging along. Richard Lake has just crossed the Danube. His latest YouTube offering describes his nightmares on-and-around the CP4 parcours, which he did east-west (which he acknowledges was a bad decision, while also saying the other way wouldn't have been much better): drowned phone, routing problems, dogs, heavy rain, punctures etc. It sounds as if he's done a lot of walking after CP4, not just on the parcours but to get to somewhere for bike repairs. But he's still going...

[Frank9755]

Thanks!  I think the main thing with interviews like that is not to try to say anything really clever, but to avoid making a fool of yourself by saying something really stupid!  If I managed that, I'm happy!

Doing that parcours uphill would be very hard. Probably take a full day. Lots of it would need to be walked, given diminished power.

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

[L CC]

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

Everything you could ever need or want to know

[Nuncio]

Thanks!  I think the main thing with interviews like that is not to try to say anything really clever, but to avoid making a fool of yourself by saying something really stupid!  If I managed that, I'm happy!

If it was conducted within hours of your having cycled 4,200km+ and your probably still being 'a bit tired', then anything other than an incoherent blabbering would be an achievement in my book. Your point about the differences between your last attempt and this one re- preparation and experience was cogently made.

The emotion of some of the 'just finished' interviews comes through clearly and is quite affecting; the ones 'recollected in tranquility', like Strasser's, less so, but still facinating.

[Frank9755]

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

Everything you could ever need or want to know

Thanks. Unfortunately my life is too short and my curiosity not deep enough to watch multiple videos! I know I'm getting old but I have such nostalgia for the days when people just wrote things down!

[Frank9755]

Thanks!  I think the main thing with interviews like that is not to try to say anything really clever, but to avoid making a fool of yourself by saying something really stupid!  If I managed that, I'm happy!

If it was conducted within hours of your having cycled 4,200km+ and your probably still being 'a bit tired', then anything other than an incoherent blabbering would be an achievement in my book. Your point about the differences between your last attempt and this one re- preparation and experience was cogently made.

The emotion of some of the 'just finished' interviews comes through clearly and is quite affecting; the ones 'recollected in tranquility', like Strasser's, less so, but still facinating.

It was about an hour after I had finished and just at the end of my second beer, I recall.
If they had tried to interview me after the finish in 2016, I expect I might have been far less coherent!

[markcjagar]

Anna Haslock
It's not actually up for debate Neil. You signed up to a race with a clearly described off road parcours. There have been off road parcours on the Transcontinental Race since 2014...

I had been considering applying for next years race but that has made me a lot more hesitant

[L CC]

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

Everything you could ever need or want to know

Thanks. Unfortunately my life is too short and my curiosity not deep enough to watch multiple videos! I know I'm getting old but I have such nostalgia for the days when people just wrote things down!

Same!

[αdαmsκι]

Well done, Frank, on finishing. Sounds like you had a blast on parts of the route.

After LEL I was chatting with some Dutch and German riders about tcr.  It's never been something I have fancied because to be competitive would seem to mean riding fast main roads. And if not trying to at least finish for the party then why bother? You say as much below:

On the more negative side, I now have doubts over the viability of this format with free route between controls. Others have been saying for a while that it is dangerous as it forces riders to use the busiest roads to be competitive, and I now agree.

Compared to 2016 and 2019 there was much more use of the main roads of Eastern Europe, which is where the main issues lie.

Years ago (2014) I did a solo lightweight tour from Brussels to kefalonia (Greece) and had lots of 200+ km days. It wasn't TCR but was great. Riding some crazy small roads in Serbia, for instance, was brilliant. Smashing down main roads would have been a different experience.

[Frank9755]

Thanks Adam, and well done on a successful LEL.

For all my misgivings about aspects of it, I still think the TCR is the most fabulous event, and just about the most exciting thing I've ever done. And it's a fabulous community to feel part of. However, this edition has persuaded me that, having been lucky enough to complete it twice,  I should rest on my laurels and leave it to younger, braver and faster riders!

I think the future is defined route events, which can take those back roads through Serbia and elsewhere, which are wonderful to ride. People like James Hayden have been saying this for a while, but it took my experience on this one for me to realise.

[Lightning Phil]

Is the last parcours off road? I see Richard Lake is closing in on it at the moment.

[Nuncio]

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

I think I read that he did the Stelvio, which might not mean a lot in the scheme of things but might give an indication of one aspect of his approach to the race. As might the existence of all those YouTube audio logs.

[Frank9755]

Is the last parcours off road?

Virtually all on road

[Frank9755]

I don't know anything about Richard and why he's so far behind. Has he had problems, riding slowly, or just doing short days?

I think I read that he did the Stelvio, which might not mean a lot in the scheme of things but might give an indication of one aspect of his approach to the race. As might the existence of all those YouTube audio logs.

The Stelvio would probably add an hour vs the Umbrail, so filming and faffing more likely explanations, or maybe he was riding 9 to 5.  It looks like he put in a big last day, so could most likely have finished a few days quicker if he had wanted to.

[jdsnape]

I think the future is defined route events, which can take those back roads through Serbia and elsewhere, which are wonderful to ride. People like James Hayden have been saying this for a while, but it took my experience on this one for me to realise.

I can totally understand this, but would loosing the ability to plan the route take away a large part of the fun? I say this as someone who has never attempted a ride this long, but a huge part of what I enjoy about DIY audax is the route planning, and then the achievement of finishing a route I've designed and seeing where it matched up to expectations and where it fell short.

As someone tentatively thinking of applying some time, I feel like if they made it mandatory route it would change what it is quite significantly. Perhaps there's a compromise about what roads are allowed, but I think guess that gets very complicated

[arabella]

Am I the only one reading this who thinks that a PROFS crossed with an arrow is an ideal alternative?
All aim to arrive at <finish> by data/time.
Must go through certain locations
Plan your own route
Leave yourself enough time to ride safely
Bonus "points" for the CP bits (optional)

chapeau to all those who completed, regardless of how long it took. 

[quixoticgeek]

Anna Haslock
It's not actually up for debate Neil. You signed up to a race with a clearly described off road parcours. There have been off road parcours on the Transcontinental Race since 2014...

I think mostly this shows ignorance of cycling. Yes. Under Mike there was unpaved sections of parcour. But they are (at least this is my understanding) best described as "fast rolling gravel roads". It may slow you slightly if you have 25mm slicks. But you'll still make good progress and it won't be dangerous.

Then we get 2018 edition. The first one without Mike. That parcour in Serbia. I don't think anyone managed to ride all the way up it. In the race. One guy left his bike at the bottom and just walked up with his tracker. When it was suggested it was a bit extreme. I was told Juliana and Emily had ridden up it just fine. Sure. But that wasn't with a 3000km run up...

Then we go to 2019. CP2 parcour, again in Serbia. Again did anyone actually manage to ride the whole boulder field. I mean route? I've only seen pictures of people carrying bikes over large rocks.

And then 2022. CP4. Given the number of incredibly skilled riders who crashed. The fact that the fastest time of anyone was about 4 hours. And most were 6+. Shows that it was inappropriate for an event like this. Esp with such a long run up.

There is a wider issue among the cycling industry/community that we haven't actually worked out what gravel actually means. And it covers everything from the white roads of the Strada bianci, up to what ever the fuck that road in Serbia in 2017 was, and more.

One of the reasons I don't think I'll take another go at the TCR (aside from the massive time commitment it requires to train) is this attitude that all off road is the same. It's always had off road. So fuck it lets give you a section straight out of the silk road mountain race, hike abike with 3000k run up!

I hope the new race director will have a better understanding of what gravel is and isn't. What makes a good parcour. And what doesn't.

The distance is the challenge. There's no need to make it even harder by throwing in gratuitously hard sections.

J

[αdαmsκι]

How many km was the off road section this year? I'm curious what sort of average speed people were riding that section at.

[JonBuoy]

Parcours 4 shows as 43.29k on the tracking map.  Niel Copeland reckons it took him 3:45.

[Frank9755]

Most people rode at about 10km/h.  Just a question of how much they walked vs rode.
Fastest guy did it in 3:15.  It took me 8 hours as I walked a fair bit of it.  Average of people I spoke to was about 6 hours.

[Frank9755]

I think the future is defined route events, which can take those back roads through Serbia and elsewhere, which are wonderful to ride. People like James Hayden have been saying this for a while, but it took my experience on this one for me to realise.

I can totally understand this, but would loosing the ability to plan the route take away a large part of the fun? I say this as someone who has never attempted a ride this long, but a huge part of what I enjoy about DIY audax is the route planning, and then the achievement of finishing a route I've designed and seeing where it matched up to expectations and where it fell short.

As someone tentatively thinking of applying some time, I feel like if they made it mandatory route it would change what it is quite significantly. Perhaps there's a compromise about what roads are allowed, but I think guess that gets very complicated

Yes, that's why, until two weeks ago, I was in favour of the current format!  I don't think it's likely to change just yet though. It will probably take an incident or two.  However, some people really hate the route planning aspect and would be glad to see the end of it. It certainly is a massive time sink.

Where we are now is some roads are allowed, some are not.

[24hourmaths]

How many km was the off road section this year? I'm curious what sort of average speed people were riding that section at.

https://www.strava.com/segments/32564598

[24hourmaths]

Christophe Strasser did it at 8.3 kph and he had already ridden it on a recce.

There is also a massive vertical altitude change downhill - the final 25km or so is nearly all free-wheeling (also all pretty much continual braking)