Author Topic: TCR no8.  (Read 86089 times)

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #750 on: 19 August, 2022, 10:31:26 am »
I'm enjoying following James Houston who is plugging along on his Brompton. His Instagram posts give a really good idea of the landscape.

Is it public? If so do you have a link?

He finished about 10 hours ago  :thumbsup:

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #751 on: 19 August, 2022, 12:38:56 pm »
Christophe Strasser did it at 8.3 kph and he had already ridden it on a recce.

There is also a massive vertical altitude change downhill - the final 25km or so is nearly all free-wheeling (also all pretty much continual braking)

I peeked at Fiona's strava, and it looks like she covered the parcour at about 11.5 kph.

Interestingly Christoph, pre rode the section and still selected 28mm tires for this "adventure" race.  Im not sure what Fiona was using.
I guess he deemed it sufficiently short and built his set up on what he was confident with for the other sections of the race. All in the game in my view and part of those decisions to made prior to starting.

I strongly disagree with your views on the parlours inclusion Frank & others.
Admittedly I didn't ride it, but it would have concerned me far far less than, for example, busy roads. (I had routed wherever possible on minor roads/bike paths etc)
I was looking forward to that section, to add texture to the experience, though with some trepidation about the sheepdogs.

The closest I can compare it to personally would be the "lost in the gravel" experience after Blejnica. That was about 90 odd km and much of unrideable.
I was pretty desperate at the time but more from frustration that I was off course and Jo was waiting for me at the finish, so I felt I had let her down. It likely cost me a GC finish too
Looking back though, it was a life enriching experience that won't be forgotten.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1769728752

often lost.

αdαmsκι

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Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #752 on: 19 August, 2022, 02:38:30 pm »


https://www.strava.com/segments/32564598

Jezz. "Only" 44.3 km so 2.1 km more than a marathon. I realize running on road is different to riding on boulders but my marathon PB is 2:34!
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #753 on: 22 August, 2022, 09:44:30 am »
Christophe Strasser did it at 8.3 kph and he had already ridden it on a recce.

There is also a massive vertical altitude change downhill - the final 25km or so is nearly all free-wheeling (also all pretty much continual braking)

I peeked at Fiona's strava, and it looks like she covered the parcour at about 11.5 kph.

Interestingly Christoph, pre rode the section and still selected 28mm tires for this "adventure" race.  Im not sure what Fiona was using.
I guess he deemed it sufficiently short and built his set up on what he was confident with for the other sections of the race. All in the game in my view and part of those decisions to made prior to starting.

I strongly disagree with your views on the parlours inclusion Frank & others.
Admittedly I didn't ride it, but it would have concerned me far far less than, for example, busy roads. (I had routed wherever possible on minor roads/bike paths etc)
I was looking forward to that section, to add texture to the experience, though with some trepidation about the sheepdogs.

The closest I can compare it to personally would be the "lost in the gravel" experience after Blejnica. That was about 90 odd km and much of unrideable.
I was pretty desperate at the time but more from frustration that I was off course and Jo was waiting for me at the finish, so I felt I had let her down. It likely cost me a GC finish too
Looking back though, it was a life enriching experience that won't be forgotten.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1769728752

The batshit parcours and dangerous main roads are not either/or, they are part of the same problem which is that the event isn't safe.  Further, it is unsafe by design.  Anna doesn't see this as a problem, so nothing will happen until someone gets badly hurt, again.  It's a wonderful event, I have loved my involvement with it and I believe Anna did an amazing job to keep it going after Mike's death. But it needs to be made safe. 

By far the biggest danger is the use of main roads in Eastern Europe, which is implicitly necessary to be competitive and hit the time windows.  Some, not all, are unsafe to cycle on by design.  I think it was six people were knocked off their bikes on those roads. In addition, loads of us were forced off, multiple times, by overtaking trucks or cars driving into the space that we had expected to occupy.  When you get forced off a main road there is no guarantee there is anywhere safe for you to end up, let alone when you get knocked off.  Each one of these incidents could have been a death or serious injury.

The batshit parcours are also unsafe but in a different way.  For a 4,000km road ride it is not sensible to use equipment designed for a 40km mountain bike section so everyone is riding them on a road bike with road tyres, which means they are not able to control their bike safely.  They also have luggage which makes the bike harder to control.  And it happens at 2000m altitude where weather conditions can change quickly and become very nasty.  And riders have equipment appropriate for summer in Europe, not bad weather in mountains.  In the UK we hear frequently about people getting themselves into trouble in mountain conditions by going up without the right equipment and without appreciating that conditions can and do change suddenly at altitude.  The point is made that such people are not only stupid but selfish because they put the people who have to come and rescue them in danger as well as themselves. Some local mountain bikers saw my bike and basically told me off for being up there with unsuitable equipment, and I couldn't defend my actions because they were right. 

What Anna and her apologists do not recognise is that, in setting a compulsory section, the TCR owes a duty of care to the riders.  When I organise a 100km reliability ride in the Chilterns, I have to do a risk assessment and say what I have done to manage each of the risks.  I don't know if the TCR did a risk assessment of the parcours but Anna certainly didn't mention it when I asked, no-one has ever seen it, and things that would be obvious mitigations to obvious risks - such as passing on info on water availability - were not done, so it seems unilikely to me.

Virtually every rider I met shared these concerns similarly about the parcours and the merits of its inclusion.  Most don't want to say anthing controversial in their blogs or instagram posts, but Ulrich Bartholomeus, Pawel Pulawski and Christoph Strasser all said it was not appropriate for it to be included and I have not seen anyone who rode it say they thought it was a good idea.  Even Anna said that people projecting their own past adventures onto this parcours was inappropriate as this was very different.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #754 on: 25 August, 2022, 08:16:49 am »
Mikko explains the thinking behind his routing:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elkXyGEdo_A

I like the funky river basin maps!

felstedrider

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #755 on: 31 August, 2022, 11:51:46 am »
I'm sure 24hrmaths should post this but he's too polite.

https://www.insidetrishow.com/episode/michaelbroadwith

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #756 on: 31 August, 2022, 04:18:04 pm »
Christophe Strasser did it at 8.3 kph and he had already ridden it on a recce.

There is also a massive vertical altitude change downhill - the final 25km or so is nearly all free-wheeling (also all pretty much continual braking)

I peeked at Fiona's strava, and it looks like she covered the parcour at about 11.5 kph.

Interestingly Christoph, pre rode the section and still selected 28mm tires for this "adventure" race.  Im not sure what Fiona was using.
I guess he deemed it sufficiently short and built his set up on what he was confident with for the other sections of the race. All in the game in my view and part of those decisions to made prior to starting.

I strongly disagree with your views on the parlours inclusion Frank & others.
Admittedly I didn't ride it, but it would have concerned me far far less than, for example, busy roads. (I had routed wherever possible on minor roads/bike paths etc)
I was looking forward to that section, to add texture to the experience, though with some trepidation about the sheepdogs.

The closest I can compare it to personally would be the "lost in the gravel" experience after Blejnica. That was about 90 odd km and much of unrideable.
I was pretty desperate at the time but more from frustration that I was off course and Jo was waiting for me at the finish, so I felt I had let her down. It likely cost me a GC finish too
Looking back though, it was a life enriching experience that won't be forgotten.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1769728752

The batshit parcours and dangerous main roads are not either/or, they are part of the same problem which is that the event isn't safe.  Further, it is unsafe by design.  Anna doesn't see this as a problem, so nothing will happen until someone gets badly hurt, again.  It's a wonderful event, I have loved my involvement with it and I believe Anna did an amazing job to keep it going after Mike's death. But it needs to be made safe. 

By far the biggest danger is the use of main roads in Eastern Europe, which is implicitly necessary to be competitive and hit the time windows.  Some, not all, are unsafe to cycle on by design.  I think it was six people were knocked off their bikes on those roads. In addition, loads of us were forced off, multiple times, by overtaking trucks or cars driving into the space that we had expected to occupy.  When you get forced off a main road there is no guarantee there is anywhere safe for you to end up, let alone when you get knocked off.  Each one of these incidents could have been a death or serious injury.

The batshit parcours are also unsafe but in a different way.  For a 4,000km road ride it is not sensible to use equipment designed for a 40km mountain bike section so everyone is riding them on a road bike with road tyres, which means they are not able to control their bike safely.  They also have luggage which makes the bike harder to control.  And it happens at 2000m altitude where weather conditions can change quickly and become very nasty.  And riders have equipment appropriate for summer in Europe, not bad weather in mountains.  In the UK we hear frequently about people getting themselves into trouble in mountain conditions by going up without the right equipment and without appreciating that conditions can and do change suddenly at altitude.  The point is made that such people are not only stupid but selfish because they put the people who have to come and rescue them in danger as well as themselves. Some local mountain bikers saw my bike and basically told me off for being up there with unsuitable equipment, and I couldn't defend my actions because they were right. 

What Anna and her apologists do not recognise is that, in setting a compulsory section, the TCR owes a duty of care to the riders.  When I organise a 100km reliability ride in the Chilterns, I have to do a risk assessment and say what I have done to manage each of the risks.  I don't know if the TCR did a risk assessment of the parcours but Anna certainly didn't mention it when I asked, no-one has ever seen it, and things that would be obvious mitigations to obvious risks - such as passing on info on water availability - were not done, so it seems unilikely to me.

Virtually every rider I met shared these concerns similarly about the parcours and the merits of its inclusion.  Most don't want to say anthing controversial in their blogs or instagram posts, but Ulrich Bartholomeus, Pawel Pulawski and Christoph Strasser all said it was not appropriate for it to be included and I have not seen anyone who rode it say they thought it was a good idea.  Even Anna said that people projecting their own past adventures onto this parcours was inappropriate as this was very different.

 :thumbsup:
Partly why I won't ride. Plenty of events with mandatory routes that are nice, so I don't see any need to enter an event where using horrible roads gives an advantage. Mandatory parcours just seems gratuotous on an otherwise open route.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #757 on: 31 August, 2022, 07:38:40 pm »
While following the TCR during the past few years I've often remarked a very skewed safety standard. On the one hand there's a lot of emphasis on helmets, on the other hand control points are placed in dangerous area's or in such a way that riders have to ride dangerous roads/ride through dangerous regions (landmine infested area's in former YU, northern approach of the Transfagarasan (bears) etc.). Add to this the insane sections which riders have to take and the helmets emphasis just seems to me a camouflage for an unsafe attitude.