Base training

[simonp]

but back off if you have to

I keep being told this by my coach as well.

I find that this can be difficult on the Neo as if I start to drop my cadence the resistance goes up to keep the same power output.  I find now that for the 1 minute sessions I switch to resistance mode which allows me to change cadence, etc as i feel what my legs can give.

TrainerRoad often suggest if you're struggling to complete an interval on target to back pedal for 10s or so. Then go again. Backing off on erg mode doesn't work as you've discovered and you just get bogged down.

[rob]

but back off if you have to

I keep being told this by my coach as well.

I find that this can be difficult on the Neo as if I start to drop my cadence the resistance goes up to keep the same power output.  I find now that for the 1 minute sessions I switch to resistance mode which allows me to change cadence, etc as i feel what my legs can give.

I'm working with speed/cadence (bike is fixed and I've left the same gear on) on a basic magnetic turbo.   I now know what cadence I can do by each resistance setting, but can back off a little if it feels too hard.   On the bad session I had a couple of weeks back my average cadence dropped from about 115rpm to 110 by the last one and my HR was way higher than it had been previously.  This week's session I did the first interval averaging 110 but was hitting 114rpm and pushing on in the last interval.  My HR was not as high as the previous week so I expect I was better rested and paced the efforts properly.

Each week the length of the intervals goes up and recovery goes down but I have had to move the resistance setting up in order to stop from spinning out.   I expect this means that my power output has gone up, but I had a long break after my last TT so was starting from a lower base.   The signs are encouraging, though.

[zigzag]

long steady distance on friday - 320km, 22kph, 96w, 66rpm, 110bpm, 318tss - on a tt bike which is not very suitable for such riding. i was wearing a cap with a peak, which made me raise my head more to see where i'm going, now my neck hurts. used three bread rolls (w/ butter, mozzarella ant tomato) and four bananas for the fuel and 1l of drink.

[teethgrinder]

You know nobody likes a show off?      Does put us in the shade somewhat.  Out of interest what are doing in your training now in terms of TSS and FTP?  I understand you have a superb aerobic engine with a very low HR?
[/quote]

Last weeks TSS was just over 1400
It's the longer rides that bump it up a bit. The 12 hour ride yesterday was about 450.
Doing some strength and speed stuff. Hill repeats with a low cadence at 95-100% FTP
4x30 minute intervals of 60-70rpm at 85-90% FTP
30 mins at 90-95rpm 80-85% but spinning up to 110-120rpm for 10 secs every 3 minutes (I usually go to about 140-150) Then 3x20mins at 95-105rpm at 85-90% FTP.
I prefer the strength stuff on the road to the turbo. Turbo gets a lower TSS score but I think it's harder.

It'll be a bit more this week so my TSS should be over 1500. It was at around 2000 for a few weeks before I went for the month.

My HR is low. Maximum in my last test was 168. I got it to 175 in 2013. I think the year record attempt lowered my MHR.

[DrMekon]

Surprisingly similar to the FTP raising plan Today's Plan has me on, albeit very different volumes. This week is a 620tss one before a recovery week.

[chrisbainbridge]

Hero to Zero!

Last night was superb, great session exceeded all my goals and set best 30second power and 90 minute power.  Tonight could hardly get the legs to move.  Like pedalling through treacle.  finished 3 out of 4 10 minute intervals at 80% of planned and called it a day.

[rob]

First 3 intervals tonight went OK but sat up for the last 2, rather than using the TT position.

Annoyingly when spinning at 110rpm + the turbo started to walk.   I had to stop a couple of times and put the front wheel back into the holder.   I was better off when I just used an Argos catalogue.   Should probably put the turbo matt back down.   

Not going to drop much next 2 weeks so should carry through quite nicely.

[DrMekon]

Just did 2 sets of 20 x 15sec at 140%FTP with 15 secs rest, each bookended by 5m SST. The 10th-15th of the second block were horrible until I found a happy place and was able to hide from how horrible it felt. The last 5 were almost euphoric.

Legs will be sore in the morning, but it's a rest day.

[simonp]

Last night was last TR session for a week as we're away. As I'd missed Saturday and Sunday training I picked my go-to session for a beasting (Solomons). 6x3m:3r at 115% FTP with a 12m tempo block the 4x2m:4r at 130%. This is intended to be a tough challenge to complete and it is. This was my second highest NP for this workout and I can feel it today particularly after late night then up for a 7:10 flight. And we have walked >5 miles today.

I've put in the next two weeks of the plan into TrainingPeaks and the drop in CTL appears significant - and I won't be back to where I'm at today until three weeks from now. I have trainers with me, however, and my TickrX, so might get a couple of runs in. It was really quite warm today so going for a run a few times this week is do-able.

There is a gym and getting on a rowing machine would help with maintenance.

[teethgrinder]

Surprisingly similar to the FTP raising plan Today's Plan has me on, albeit very different volumes. This week is a 620tss one before a recovery week.

I'm not sure how good the TSS score is for how hard a week of training is. I got about 160 for my turbo session yesterday. I found that harder than doing longer rides that score a lot more on the TSS scale. Maybe it's because I'm used to doing the long rides and long rides feel short to me. I think that 4 of those turbo sessions a week would be enough for me!

[DrMekon]

Yes, I don't think all TSS are equal. I've got a 4*15m at "threshold" 95%FTP due today, which is estimated at 117TSS, but I looked ahead to the Mere 200, and it's estimated that at nearly 700TSS. I'd feel fine the day after 200, but I'm sure I'll feel today's efforts tomorrow.

I'm sure these numbers are just there to help us sense when we're working harder / easing off. To that extent, they are useful to me - keeping an eye on ramp rate, looking ahead and fitting training around other commitments.

[chrisbainbridge]

Interesting regarding the TSS.  I do a 3.5 hour zone 2HR ride on Sunday which will regularly get me 250 of TSS but is as you say a lot easier than the turbo rides in the week which get me a much lower TSS.  I wonder how you could model that better?

[rob]

I'm only doing 2 turbo sessions a week at the moment, but I find these way harder than any of my long road rides.

One of the biggest challenges of the last few years has been learning how to push myself harder for shorter periods of time.   Good to see everyone else with a similar background has the same issues.

[simonp]

Generally the higher intensity work needs more recovery. However I feel far more knackered the day after a 200k than after a 90 minute vo2max workout I can barely finish.

As you add more TSS the intensity has to drop or you face burn out.

[LMT]

The difference between an aerobic effort and an anaerobic effort...

[chrisbainbridge]

Another 140 of TSS today.  With a bit of luck and pushing hard I can hit 2000 for the month which would be an all time high.  Probably means doing the long ride on 31 December rather than 1 January.

CTL also a lifetime high of 64.2.

Really chuffed with my Autumn training. However I am currently refusing to be near my wife or kiss her as she has a cold.  Oh, the sacrifices I make as an athlete

[DrMekon]

Yesterday was a 4 x 15m at 95%FTP, with some bits either side, making TSS of 126.

Last thing I did last night was swap my workouts for today, as there's no way I'd do a VO2 intermittent session properly. Instead, I'm doing "aerobic development + power starts".

First thing I did this morning (before I put the kettle on even) was get the foam roller out. Jeeze, I am feeling this week.

What's nice is seeing the effects physically. My body fat is down (between 6 & 7%), despite  being 2kg heavier than usual, and 6kg heavier than the summer. Can see it in the veins on my leg, which are now prominent up into my thighs. I feel much less fragile at 71kg than at 65kg!

@chrisbainbridge - that's life for me with bronchiectasis. I bollocked a colleague and ended up leaving a meeting when I realised that he wasn't covering his mouth as he coughed next to me repeatedly, then the people in front and behind started. I carry alcohol gel everywhere, and my kids are well trained to use it all the time, and sneeze in to their elbows.

[zigzag]

it feels good to be at my summer weight right now, 67kg, 10.3% body fat, 3% visceral fat ( <- is this a part of body fat or extra?). rapha500 starts tomorrow which will kickstart base training for the next year. indoor training will probably be on the rollers as (for me) the turbo kills all the positive emotions associated with cycling..

[chrisbainbridge]

the turbo kills all the positive emotions associated with cycling

I empathise with this.  I loved my commuting in the dark of winter BUT I am 58 and have some things I want to do  BCM, LEL, a few more long distance rides, a Diagonale, and I want to be fitter.  So I have given up commuting at the moment and only ride at the weekend and even then it is a training ride with specific goals.

I will probably aim for a zone 1 commute ride in the New Year as well as the turbo to keep my head in a right place.  I am fortunate that my minimum distance is only 7.5km and can be done in Zone 1 quite happily (and is faster than car in the rush hour).

Thank you all for the support over the last few months on this board as I have got into training.  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[DrMekon]

the turbo kills all the positive emotions associated with cycling..

I think I share some of my autistic son's preference for structure and predictability. I want to see modifications in my behaviour lead to measurable outcomes. The turbo lets me control and quantify the modifications to my behaviour, and measure the outcomes (plus I'm getting regular blood lactate testing).

I actually like riding on Zwift too. Even before I got a fancy PC and a big screen, I found the environment engaging. I did a 200 on it back when I had it running on a laptop. This time of year, I get from bed to spinning in 30 mins including a couple of cups of tea and a snack. No faffing with cold / wet weather gear. I get the fake warmth of the sunlight effects on screen, and spotify in my ears. I get regular tows, and there are usually around a 1000 other cyclists zooming around. When I'm finished, I can get some food before jumping in a shower without worrying about hypothermia! I'm about to do an hour or so. Looking out the window, Zwift looks much more appealing that the high winds and pelting rain I can see.

Don't get me wrong - there's a satisfaction in putting on the right clothes and getting on the right bike and knocking out some winter miles. However, for me, I ended up just surviving my commute and doing 100km tempo every Sunday, desperately trying to stay warm. Spending last winter on Zwift was a revelation.

[chrisbainbridge]

DrMekon, that is really interesting.  I had not joined Zwift as I did not need another indoor system but looking at the weather front coming in and the wind I do not fancy 3.5 hours on any road near me, especially with Christmas car drivers.  I may give it a shot.

[zigzag]

i guess it depends what one wants out of cycling - fitness, achieving a particular goal, freedom, meditation, social interaction, means of transportation etc.

as turbo trainer doesn't really serve my future goals i struggle to find the motivation to actually use it, i need to shift my mind and convince myself that the pain, discomfort and boredom are worthwhile.

i don't need to convince myself that it's a good idea to be out cycling in wind and sometimes rain - it's just a part of what i enjoy doing anyway (and i wouldn't want my every ride to be in sunshine and with a tailwind).

really looking forward to tomorrow's xmas social ride, everyone riding real bikes, on real roads, in real wind, chatting and interacting with each other in real time, eye contact, smiles - it is a completely different experience from spending 90 fitness-efficient minutes doing interval blocks on a turbo*..

*i'll get round to using it, some day

[DrMekon]

DrMekon, that is really interesting.  I had not joined Zwift as I did not need another indoor system but looking at the weather front coming in and the wind I do not fancy 3.5 hours on any road near me, especially with Christmas car drivers.  I may give it a shot.

Just got to keep an eye out for virtual transport secretaries

[rob]

I'm spending less hours on the turbo this Winter, but at a higher intensity.   My commute is now done at a higher intensity some days and recovery on others.   Overall I can handle the current load.   This sort of training is a necessity for next year's goals which are all based around TTs.   I'm not sure I could deal with it if I were building towards a long audax where speed is less important for me.

I'm weighing in at 10 stone at the minute which I don't think I've been near since my teens.

I hope this is all worth it.   If I hit all the goals I went through with my coach I'll look for something away from the TT world in 2018.

Hope everybody has a good break.   I did 2hrs tempo first thing, will do the same Boxing Day but rest up tomorrow.

[chrisbainbridge]

In the end I did an hour outside in the afternoon.  Just riding some of my favourite hills which got my total TSS for the week to 540 which is just slightly above average for me.  Next week I am planning to do a lot of real work.  (Family and father in law go home)