Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143092 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #450 on: 12 July, 2012, 08:24:27 pm »
Froome deserves a medal thinks. What is Cav up to?
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #451 on: 12 July, 2012, 08:35:05 pm »
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour.  There is just the impression, like the Vuelta, that Sky is putting the brakes on him in order to deliver a win for a cyclist who is no stronger and probably less strong.

Well, it is a team, and riders are used according to their strengths and according to a game plan. Bigger picture sort of thing. Froome's job is to help out Wiggo on the pointy bits, at the moment, and he's not (quite) as good a time-triallist. But, yes, he could be a winner with the right team backing, although whether he could be a team leader is another matter.

I just hope if he jumps ship, he goes to another team that supports its riders as well as Sky (if there is one). He could end up getting big bucks in the short term to move to another team with cr@p management, strategy, training, care for the riders and (dare I say it) ethics, which could be the end of him one way or another.

If I were him I'd stick with the Sky set-up and take over when Wiggo starts to fade.


+1 on the above.

Whilst Froome had shown himself to be an incredible prospect he is still relatively inexperienced, so although he may look like he could do a better job this may be in part supported by the fact that he doesn't have to carry the weight of the yellow jersey and associated expectations.

There is no reason why a talented individual who demonstrates commitment to his team should miss out on anything, he is young, and to borrow a cliche 'learning his trade' and appears to understand this.  I've heard many people criticise youngsters for not being willing to commit themselves to their apprenticeships, they want instant success and don't have the wisdom to see the benefit of a good foundation, so i think CF is doing a great job in this respect.

If i were him i'd be more likely wondering how it'll balance out when G comes back into the fold!

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #452 on: 12 July, 2012, 08:41:53 pm »
Froome deserves a medal thinks. What is Cav up to?

Cav is not a mountain man and is doing what he always does, looking to Bernhard Eisel to nurse him over the mountains.  No shame in this at all as he is doing exactly what is expected, along with all the other sprinters, trying to survive until the flat stages return.

Great TDF thus far and Sky are riding just superb.  I thought tactics last year were pants when they all stopped for Wiggo and was screaming at G and BH to get up the road.  This year, the tactics are A1.  And of course they have put so much work and time into checking/riding the route along with probably the scientific approach of all the teams.  And it all started in Manchester!

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #453 on: 12 July, 2012, 09:00:09 pm »
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #454 on: 12 July, 2012, 09:04:16 pm »
What is Cav up to?
153rd, from 157th yesterday.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #455 on: 12 July, 2012, 09:11:17 pm »
What is Cav up to?
153rd, from 157th yesterday.

He's also been being a good domestique until he gets to the pointy bits and trying as well as he can to set the tempo on the flat bits before the pointy bits in the mountain stages.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #456 on: 12 July, 2012, 10:09:48 pm »
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.

If you're watching itv4's coverage you can save yourself 15 mins if you (can) wait until it comes on itvplayer (about 9pm ish i think), as all the adverts are cut out.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #457 on: 12 July, 2012, 10:44:39 pm »
First hour long highlights I've managed to watch so far - good stuff.  Well done Froome & Wiggins.

If you're watching itv4's coverage you can save yourself 15 mins if you (can) wait until it comes on itvplayer (about 9pm ish i think), as all the adverts are cut out.
It comes up at 9pm but the adverts are still in.

Great breakaway from Pierre Rolland today, and Pinot there again as well.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #458 on: 12 July, 2012, 11:25:06 pm »
It comes up at 9pm but the adverts are still in.

They are, but if you let the program run in a window or tab behind something else, (I would advise with the sound off) you can then forward wind over the ads.

Not to sure if this is the moral equivalent of file sharing, getting content without "paying" for it, but a question for another topic perhaps.

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #459 on: 13 July, 2012, 06:56:59 am »
If I was Froome I'd be extremely frustrated having to carry another rider for the second time on a grand tour. 
Yebbut, if you were planning for this 12 months or more ago and you had two very strong riders either of whom could win the TdF, but one of them had suffered from recurring outbreaks of a debilitating disease (bilharzia) at unpredictable intervals which one would you build your team around?

Fingers crossed Froome gets to lead a team next season.
Mebbe the Vuelta?
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #460 on: 13 July, 2012, 07:00:07 am »
Aero but not dynamic

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #461 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:15:47 am »
Don't mistake acceleration for strength. Wiggo has never been one to adapt well to changes in pace. He doesn't have the explosiveness of Froome. However, he is the stronger rider and has a better track record (and 2 mins in hand).

Froome is a better climber, can adapt to changes in pace etc but whether he would do as well against nibbles etc is another thing. Sky are sitting very firmly in the tactic of training for essentially a team time trial up the mountains rather than attack after attack. Would Froome have the discipline of a wiggins in not responding but raising the pace a bit and reeling the attacks back in slowly? When I saw Cadel attack I wondered whether it was a mistake - when he couldn't hold TJ's pace I knew it was. The changes in pace put you into the red and recovery is not trivial.  It is different in the last few K as there is no need to recover - it is essentially a battle for the line then and that is the part where Wiggins will really suffer compared to the real climbers.

I'm pretty sure Froome will get the chance to lead for the Vuelta. Next year could be interesting as Froome will then be capable of leading a TdF team in his own right. What we don't know is how well he would inspire the rest of the team (and we have seen how key the Sky team ethos is). Anyway, for 0.5M Euro a year, you can't really afford to be frustrated at not being the team leader...

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #462 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:17:50 am »
I am loving Wiggo's yellow trimmed bike that he has been using since he won the jersey.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #463 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:21:06 am »
I'm sure Froome will get his chance, either at Sky or somewhere else. Right now, he is not as good a GC contender as Bradley in this TdF. His tactical nous is unclear (at least to me), but his ability - especially in the hills - is unquestionable. He is, without doubt, one to watch for the future. Same with TeJay. I suspect Cuddles will need to have a word with him about how to protect your leader when he's struggling; he's a bit of a Tigger - lots of enthusiastic bouncing but not a lot of common!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #464 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:34:14 am »
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

fuzzy

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #465 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:38:09 am »
Right, thats it! I have come to the conclusion that I hate it when Brits are doing well in the Tour.

For years I have been watching the Tour via evening highlight shows and until this year I could easily sit down at 10:00 p.m. to play back my recording with absolutely no idea how the stage went.

This year, every time I listen to the radio on the way home from work or watch the TV news some git launches into a report of the stage and I find out the gist of what happened before I can hit the off button or launch myself from the room, hands over my ears shouting "La La LA La- I'm not listening!"

Bastards!

 ;D

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #466 on: 13 July, 2012, 08:58:17 am »
I suspect he'd've hated Indurain, too.

Indurain was pure climber before he bulked up.  He was Delgado's 'Froome' and wore the polkadot for a while in one of his early Tours.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #467 on: 13 July, 2012, 09:28:18 am »
This year, every time I listen to the radio on the way home from work or watch the TV news some git launches into a report of the stage and I find out the gist of what happened before I can hit the off button or launch myself from the room, hands over my ears shouting "La La LA La- I'm not listening!"

I managed to avoid the TT day’s news only for my wife to come in as I was watching the highlights and ask if I knew what was going to happen; she knew because she’d caught it on Newsround.  I figured that Newsround wasn’t going to have a piece about Fabian Cancellara or Tony Martin winning the stage, and settled down to BW’s foregone conclusion. 

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #468 on: 13 July, 2012, 09:28:40 am »
I hadn't heard anything about the stage (and I had it recording) so I watched the final 20km "live".  It was very exciting I have to say.

Because of all the "poker faces" you just don't know, until it happens, who is going to blow-up first. Of course when they do, like Cadel Evans, you realise just how fast the pace is as they drop off the back like they are standing still.  At one point I thought Froome had blown and Brad looked pained.  All very tense.

I think the relentless SKY "TT" approach to climbing the big hills will scare most climbers.  It seems SKY have got the perfect pace dialled in and, in Wiggins, a rider who knows how to ride at a planned pace.  The other contenders have got two choices, try to stay with the relentless steady pace (which means they won't have much left at the end for a sprint, small time gains) or try to attack early and risk total burn out.

Maybe the lack of drugs on the Tour has signalled the end of superhuman breaks on huge climbs.  Maybe Nibali's attempt was an example of what an un-juiced rider can achieve.  ie. a few small attacks before blowing up and then being reeled in.

Froome looks like the only real contender.  Growing up at 5500 ft in Kenya may be a form of legal EPO.  What odds on his winning in 2013?

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #469 on: 13 July, 2012, 09:36:51 am »
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #470 on: 13 July, 2012, 10:10:53 am »
Well there were big breaks on climbs back in the 60s and before when non of the drugs actually worked (other than phonologically).

Amphetamine can "pep you up", even in the 60s.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #471 on: 13 July, 2012, 10:17:55 am »
BTW, does anyone know if Rolland gets double points for mountain top finish?

Yup.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #472 on: 13 July, 2012, 10:20:37 am »
Today's effort OK for you? I thought it was brilliant to watch.

Hell yeah! That was fantastic.  ;D

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #473 on: 13 July, 2012, 10:26:42 am »
Btw, did anyone catch the Sky Wag War on Twitter last night? Mrs Wiggo tweeted praise for Rogers and Porte and their supreme loyalty, and Mrs Froome took it as a dig at her boy. And then Mrs Cav joined in... Hilarious.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/13/cracks-appearing-in-team-sky-via-warring-wags/

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #474 on: 13 July, 2012, 10:31:24 am »
Sky are sitting very firmly in the tactic of training for essentially a team time trial up the mountains rather than attack after attack.
Yeah. It's great to see Wiggins in yellow (and Froome second) but the most exciting part of the racing IMO is the breakaways which don't actually have any impact on GC. Dramatic inefficiency is more fun to watch and wins the stage but efficient steadiness wins the race.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.