Author Topic: Grazes through clothing?  (Read 3267 times)

Grazes through clothing?
« on: 21 February, 2019, 11:09:13 pm »
or more specifically getting grazes in a fall, through lycra/clothing - which remains pretty well undamaged (as happened today to me).  What exactly is happening?   Simply a friction burn and lycra is more elastic than skin?
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #1 on: 21 February, 2019, 11:25:15 pm »
Suspect Lycra is 'harder' - resists abrasion - better than skin. It is also more elastic and has greater tensile strength - skin tears more easily.

I reckon you could scratch yourself with a dinner fork through Lycra clothing (if you are silly enough to try).

Methinks this is simple abrasion, not burning.

Kim

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #2 on: 21 February, 2019, 11:29:17 pm »
I can confirm that you can scratch yourself with a cat through Lycra clothing without substantially damaging the Lycra...

Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #3 on: 21 February, 2019, 11:42:12 pm »
Would the claw tip go between/puncture the lycra 'weave', in the way a flat/rough surface would not?
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #4 on: 21 February, 2019, 11:59:08 pm »
The other thing I think occurs, is that the tarmac or whatever adheres to the Lycra, which detaches from the subjacent skin.

Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #5 on: 22 February, 2019, 09:20:34 am »
Grazes like that are common. The lycra "sticks" to the road surface, and the skin rides across the lycra.  A more dramatic version is when you come off a motorbike, and your waterproofs act in the same way. That led to a small hole in my trousers, no visible damage to the waterproofs and a patch of skin of visible depth being rolled off my knee.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #6 on: 22 February, 2019, 10:34:39 am »
Yep, I've had the same, crashed a motorbike in leathers with woolly jumper underneath, no damage to leathers or jumper but lost a lot of skin from my elbow.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #7 on: 22 February, 2019, 01:04:26 pm »
Experiment:

Equipment
One stone
Old Lycra Garment

Method
Wrap stone in Lycra from old garment.
Rub wrapped stone on skin over several joints which have bone close to skin. Use multiple joints and levels of pressure to increase validity of results, recording all variables.

Results

Conclusion

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #8 on: 22 February, 2019, 01:14:03 pm »
I are not a scientist but I'm not sure the method is reliable. In the experiment there will be minimal movement between fabric and stone but lots between fabric and skin, in real life it's the other way round.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #9 on: 22 February, 2019, 01:15:44 pm »
Grazes like that are common. The lycra "sticks" to the road surface, and the skin rides across the lycra.

Sounds about right to me.

Also worth remembering that if you dust yourself off and continue your ride, by the time you get to the end, it's possible that your lycra will have become stuck to your road rash, making getting undressed almost as painful as the fall itself.

DAHIKT
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #10 on: 22 February, 2019, 01:34:13 pm »
I only saw blood when I got to work about 30mins later, fortunately still unstuck to lycra.  In my saddle bag of goodies I have a few antiseptic wipes so used those to clean up...
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #11 on: 22 February, 2019, 04:12:53 pm »
So long as you have a change of clothing (and preferably a waterproof bag or two), it might be an idea to enter the shower wearing the Lycra and removing it when wet.

LOTS of streaming, clean water (with or without some detergent/soap/shower gel) probably cleans a wound better than antiseptic wipes.

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #12 on: 22 February, 2019, 04:15:54 pm »
I are not a scientist but I'm not sure the method is reliable. In the experiment there will be minimal movement between fabric and stone but lots between fabric and skin, in real life it's the other way round.

Empirically, I disagree here. Methinks the Lycra mostly sticks to the road surface when the rider lands hard.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #13 on: 22 February, 2019, 06:41:39 pm »
It might do but it's wrapped round the person not the road. Though I note that the test for motorcycle protective clothing (might even have been here I read about this) consists of a cylinder of concrete, the garment and no mannekin or similar.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

hellymedic

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #14 on: 23 February, 2019, 08:51:29 pm »
The garment is indeed worn by the victim but I still suspect the road 'grabs' the Lycra while the victim continues forward travel.
Eventually the stretchy fabric recoils...

Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #15 on: 23 February, 2019, 09:52:53 pm »
Grazes like that are common. The lycra "sticks" to the road surface, and the skin rides across the lycra.

Sounds about right to me.

Also worth remembering that if you dust yourself off and continue your ride, by the time you get to the end, it's possible that your lycra will have become stuck to your road rash, making getting undressed almost as painful as the fall itself.

DAHIKT

Or after remounting you get that warm feeling along your forearm and decide exploration can wait until you get home...
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #16 on: 23 February, 2019, 11:02:33 pm »
When running in the dunes near The Hague last winter, I put my foot through a frozen puddle (about a centimeter thick ice).  My lycra based running trousers were unmarked, but there was a deep graze which has left a scar which is highly visible a year later.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #17 on: 24 February, 2019, 02:02:39 pm »
The garment is indeed worn by the victim but I still suspect the road 'grabs' the Lycra while the victim continues forward travel.
Eventually the stretchy fabric recoils...
Yes, I wouldn't dispute that.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #18 on: 24 February, 2019, 02:31:56 pm »
Perhaps the difference between the lycra tearing/melting and not is simply the duration of the slide?  If it's short (or 'bouncy') the lycra is elastic enough to cope, but the skin isn't.

IME the canonical left elbow graze is relatively non-damaging to clothing.  Sliding on your hip/arse can do more damage to the clothing than the skin.  Knees can go either way, depending on the dynamics of the fall.

I've got a jersey with some mild damage where the shoulder was used as a braking surface against the wall of a canal tunnel.  No injury, but the scuffing looks a lot like what you get at the periphery of a hole around some road-rash.

It also occurs to me that the fabric of legs/sleeves can have more scope to move in one direction than another.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #19 on: 24 February, 2019, 03:32:17 pm »
Well if you're going to crash in a tunnel it might be best to do so against the wall rather than a Basil.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #20 on: 24 February, 2019, 03:35:48 pm »
Well if you're going to crash in a tunnel it might be best to do so against the wall rather than a Basil.

That's exactly why I ended up doing it.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #21 on: 24 February, 2019, 07:53:58 pm »
The elastane in lycra gives it a quite high friction coefficient against both asphalt and skin. It might not be too hard to exceed the shear strength between outer skin layers. Potentially, the outermost layer of skin 'sticks' to lycra clothing during a fall but an outer skin layer slides on the underlying layer.
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rr

Re: Grazes through clothing?
« Reply #22 on: 27 February, 2019, 01:00:40 pm »
The friction between the lycra and the skin is stronger than the bond between different layers of skin.
Endura MT500 bibs have a double layer of the hip, claiming to protect against this.

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