Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Polar Bear on 21 October, 2020, 08:32:00 am
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In the pre covid "leave the house" world we had a Tacx iMagic trainer and used it for a few years during the grottiest of winter days. It's purpose was to keep us at touring fitness and we enjoyed the blocky Dutch west coast landscapes of the 32 bit system and the odd Tacx classic ride dvd.
We don't have any compatible computers for this old thing any more and are looking at a replacement. We'd like the hopefully improved 64 bit less blocky landscapes and even video footage of rides but primarily it is a motivation tool for general fitness plus an outlet against grotty days and current and future covid limitations.
Another unknown is all this subscription stuff. We don't think that we are really interested in this but can we get what we prefer without it any more?
Should we go dumb trainer, smart trainer or connected smart trainer? Should we get the roller type or the newer style which connects the bicycle drive train directly to the machine replacing the back wheel?
mllePB will be the biggest winner on whatever system we buy but I will also use it for a bit of exercise now and then.
Opinions of the panel most welcome please.
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What's your budget?
Where will it be used? As in will you or your neighbours be bothered by the noise? The roller type are cheaper but noisier.
Does it have to be smart, i.e. with the computer controlling the resistance through the ride or are you happy to adjust manually?
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Budget is not an issue.
We were hoping that folk would tell us their experiences and help us weigh up the pros and cons. We would prefer smart.
Noise: yes, the old iMagic was noisy. As we live in a terrace quieter would be better.
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There are two decisions to make - what to ride, and where.
What - You will get a much better experience with a direct drive smart trainer. It will be (MUCH) quieter and much more reactive. Only you can decide if that better experience is worth the added money. If you and mllePB are not the same size and switch out bikes, it's probably easier to have a wheel-on trainer. Unless you are "training" and "need" accurate power, you will be able to pedal to moving pictures that move in approximation to your pedalling even with a dumb trainer. Like everything else, the more you spend, the better the experience.
Where
We're big users of Zwift in this house. It's a rolling one month subscription which you can pause at any time.
The social aspect- you can chat (with actual voice and ears over discord, or typed within the app) with other riders, which means it's much less boring. There are fewer courses than some (RGV / BKOOL /FULGAZ) but the user base is huge. I have ridden more hours/kms on Zwift inside, than outside, in both 2019 & 2020 - it's worth getting togged up for an hour which I am too lazy to do for outside. Our bikes are permanently set up and ready to roll in our spare room, which makes a huge difference to whether you bother or not. It's not just racing - rather the opposite. You find a group who ride at about the same pace as you, and get to know them when you ride with them regularly on a variety of 'terrains'. Because of the size of the user base, that same pace is easy to find- from amateur handcyclists doing 1w/kg to virtual pros doing 5+.
For me, the best indoor setup is the one you will use. I have never managed to do that with any previous software. I have made actual real online friends from around the world by playing a videogame controlled by my legs.
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If budget is not an issue then a Tacx Neo 2T. One of the best smart trainers on the market, quiet and has a road like feel.
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A "Smart" trainer that can interact with Zwift would be my recommendation. I have a (relatively) simple mid-range Elite Directo that plays nicely with Zwift. The CW review says it's noisy, but I have mine mounted on the type of rubber matting tiles you get for workshops (about 10mm thick and spongy), so any noise is damped quite well. And of course the sweat / perspiration is easy to clean up.
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I've never been able to make the "real video" apps that work with a Smart-trainer work for me. The video is inevitably shot by fit young things who don't ride at my ancient pace, so the downscaling in speed leads to something of a slideshow. I much prefer the smoothness of Zwift - even though it's a cartoon.
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Upgraded from the semi-smart Elite Turbo Muin to really smart Wahoo Kickr with rocking.
The semi-smart was fun and got me a lot fitter without having to change gear. I lost 6 or 7 kg during lockdown. The Kickr is definitely worth it though because it does help to need to use gears and the rocking feature makes standing on the pedals easier. The Kickr is said to be very accurate which if so means the Muin is not far out provided the belt tension is right (use a torque wrench). The Muin stores large compared to the Kickr and is hard to transport. The Kickr has a folding stand and a neatly placed carrying handle that is very useful.
Very easy to set both up to use with Zwift. I've just bought a monitor to complement the tablet so hopefully will be able to read it easily without specs.
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With a direct drive trainer you can position the bike vertically (at least mine - Elite Zumo) and get most of the floor space back when not in use.
I found Zwift boring and have no interest in watching virtual scenery. Alas Zwift is terrible about giving you audio cues if you just want to do a structured workout while watching something else. I need to find something better.
You find a group who ride at about the same pace as you
Out of interest, how did you go about this? Not just riding around, surely?
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With a direct drive trainer you can position the bike vertically (at least mine - Elite Zumo) and get most of the floor space back when not in use.
I found Zwift boring and have no interest in watching virtual scenery. Alas Zwift is terrible about giving you audio cues if you just want to do a structured workout while watching something else. I need to find something better.
You find a group who ride at about the same pace as you
Out of interest, how did you go about this? Not just riding around, surely?
Join a group ride. Zwift's big win is the social aspect- their built in training plans have major limitations.
Another hurdle with Zwift is the slightly secret squirrel nature of how to get the most out of it. You can do with using 2 devices so you can run Zwift AND the companion app. A couple of additional websites (at least) to search for rides, to assess your progress, to connect fully with the social groups. Lots of the Teams are social groups, and they all use Facebook for comms.
Easiest way to find an appropriate group ride (or race, or group workout, if that's what you're wanting) is here: https://zwifthacks.com/app/events/
Filter by pace, distance, time, course, organiser... Nigh on impossible to do on Zwift's own site.
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I agree with everything fboab has written.
Zwift’s other group ride option now is the pace partners. They’re effectively (almost) always-on group rides at various paces, as there’s always a group around the pacer. They’re a new feature and it’s still early days, but they have potential.
I enjoy the dynamic of riding in a group on Zwift as it adds interest/discipline to the session, though I’m not one to chat.
I knocked Zwifting on the head over the summer. I’m using it for midweek riding now, and longer weekend rides when the weather’s crap. I’ll probably carry on with a session or two a week all through next year though, as I benefit from the more intense sessions. I gravitate towards long & slow on the road.
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Tried the pacers once recently and not sure I understand how to get the best out of them but it certainly gave me a workout! I think it was called Coco Chanel and only the 3rd fastest out of 4..
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I’d go smart trainer that talks both Bluetooth and Ant+. What you link it up to is up to you, and you can chop and change. RGT Cycling has about six virtual courses available for free with no subscription.
I control my smart trainer through either the Tacx app or RGT cycling app on my iPad. The iPad mounts on the handlebars.
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DCRainmaker is the go to place to read about all the options, I have an elite direto, when I bought it the best value direct drive, the market moves quickly though.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com
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i've come to conclusion that companies can't (or don't want to) make a trainer that's reliable, accurate, quiet, has realistic road feel and has stable connectivity. there are some "good enough" trainers, mostly in the premium sector.
fwiw, i use neo 2t and would probably recommend it - it's better than most. or a neo bike, if more than one person will be using it.
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Thanks for the contributions so far. Very interesting.
We talked about this over supper and refined what we are ideally looking for. We like the virtual scenery type presentation that our old tacx gave us but we'd rely like to just pick somewhere to "go for a ride" and find ourselves there virtually whether it be a good streetview type scenario or computer generated landscapes. We're not really interested in racing or training programmes specifically, rather just "getting out for a ride". The old tacx also gave an elementnof resistance for hill climbing which added to the enjoyment.
Perhaps a smart trainer would be seen as overkill but we'd not use a dumb trainer nearly as much because the interest element would be missing for us.
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My experience may be slightly at odds with others, but I'm enjoying Zwift on a dumb, wheel-on trainer.
Before lockdown, I couldn't be bothered with trainers at all. I'd had some rollers back in the day, and hardly used them. I began to think again because it was more difficult to get out; because, after a little incident involving a double bypass last year, I was under strict instructions to take regular exercise (and I suddenly found myself neither cycle commuting nor able to go to the gym that I had joined); and because my cycling club started to promote Zwift club rides and so on, in the absence of normal activities. I think it was also a factor that, in the gym, I'd found that I preferred the virtual-reality ride routes on their static bikes and walkers, rather than watching TV like everyone else.
I still wasn't going to spend a fortune, so I dug out an old fixed-wheel bike and got a dumb, wheel-on trainer from my son-in-law, who had a spare. I rather liked Rouvy, which uses real-world videos, but signed up with Zwift because that's where the club was. I've got hooked. I'm now doing more of Zwift than the long walks I was doing at first. I'm also on Zwift more often than out on a real ride, because an hour or less on Zwift seems worthwhile, whereas I'd rather go out for at least half a day on a proper ride, and my need for utility riding has dropped to almost nil. To be fair though, as people pointed out to me early on, there are loads of videos on YouTube and the like, of social and training rides and routes. If you're not bothered about your effort level relating too much to the speed at which you travel, you can just put those on a screen and "ride" along - that's what they are for - without any need for a subscription.
You do need sensors on Zwift, at least if you have no power meter - speed, cadence and heart-rate. I don't have a pain cave - just a mild-discomfort patio outside - so a PC screen isn't practicable and I use a fairly basic Android tablet mounted on my stem. That set-up was pretty good for me. There's no variable resistance, but I look at it like this: you spend a lot of money so that Zwift can make it harder when you're going uphill. Then, you use variable gears to make it easier again. Or, you stick with a single gear, and imagine that Zwift made it harder, then imagine that you just made it easier again. You still end up going really slowly uphill, and really fast down, either way, and pedalling at about the same rate throughout as you would with all that extra kit. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've still not been convinced of what ;D
The thing that did get frustrating was the speed I was going at. That's probably specific to my individual trainer and readings - it's hard to tell. But I did seem to be a lot slower than in real life, and longer rides and bigger hills were taking impracticably long. After posting about this here and in one or two other places, I got a very generous offer from another YACFer on an older power meter, and I'm now using that - but still on single-speed (it's a freehub type, so I'm using a single-speed convertor). The effect of that on my speed has been remarkable - I've actually overtaken some people, and I'm now probably faster than in the real world - but otherwise, my previous paragraph stands.
I haven't done any of Zwift's training programmes, just the various rides that it offers. But you do get hooked on collecting the badges for completing different routes. If you do Audax, you'll understand. And you can get hooked too on collecting enough "drops" to "buy" faster bikes and wheels. Or, if you prefer, to "buy" classic steel ones. And there's a feature that my club, at least, call "the elastic", that keeps you together on group rides, so that you sort of go at the average of the speeds of all the individuals - they dragged me up the Col du Zwift to the radio tower my first time, rather like, decades ago, schoolfriends dragged me up the Cat & Fiddle my first time there.
As has already been said, there's a wide range of rides to join, or you can ride alone (as I usually do). You're encouraged to interact with others - the equivalent of shouting "Dig in!" or similar is to give a "Ride on" as you pass, or are passed by, others. And the club are now trying to get me involved in riding some virtual club 10s - our usual inter-club series with some other local clubs has also moved onto Zwift.
Anyway, that's me. YMMV, as they say.
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Thanks for the contributions so far. Very interesting.
We talked about this over supper and refined what we are ideally looking for. We like the virtual scenery type presentation that our old tacx gave us but we'd rely like to just pick somewhere to "go for a ride" and find ourselves there virtually whether it be a good streetview type scenario or computer generated landscapes. We're not really interested in racing or training programmes specifically, rather just "getting out for a ride". The old tacx also gave an elementnof resistance for hill climbing which added to the enjoyment.
Perhaps a smart trainer would be seen as overkill but we'd not use a dumb trainer nearly as much because the interest element would be missing for us.
In that case give Veloreality (https://veloreality.com/) a try (free trial). I use Sufferfest for training but if I want to do an easy 2-3 hour ride which has to be indoors there's nothing better than riding in some parts of the world I've actually ridden in RL. This system works best with a smart training so it adjusts the resistance depending on the slope and the faster you go the scenery passes at the appropriate rate.
It does have a system of "racing" against your previous attempts at each course if you want to but that isn't particularly useful if you are just riding to get the hours on the bike done.
If they have a video of roads you have ridden, I have 2, West Flanders and Col de Columbiere, it's brilliant to relive those rides although passing by bars you have previously stopped for a drink is tempting to... :P
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Thanks for the contributions so far. Very interesting.
We talked about this over supper and refined what we are ideally looking for. We like the virtual scenery type presentation that our old tacx gave us but we'd rely like to just pick somewhere to "go for a ride" and find ourselves there virtually whether it be a good streetview type scenario or computer generated landscapes. We're not really interested in racing or training programmes specifically, rather just "getting out for a ride". The old tacx also gave an elementnof resistance for hill climbing which added to the enjoyment.
Perhaps a smart trainer would be seen as overkill but we'd not use a dumb trainer nearly as much because the interest element would be missing for us.
In that case give Veloreality (https://veloreality.com/) a try (free trial). I use Sufferfest for training but if I want to do an easy 2-3 hour ride which has to be indoors there's nothing better than riding in some parts of the world I've actually ridden in RL. This system works best with a smart training so it adjusts the resistance depending on the slope and the faster you go the scenery passes at the appropriate rate.
It does have a system of "racing" against your previous attempts at each course if you want to but that isn't particularly useful if you are just riding to get the hours on the bike done.
If they have a video of roads you have ridden, I have 2, West Flanders and Col de Columbiere, it's brilliant to relive those rides although passing by bars you have previously stopped for a drink is tempting to... :P
And this can link to a "smart" trainer I guess?
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And this can link to a "smart" trainer I guess?
Yes, you need a smart trainer so the software can control the resistance. I have an Elite Direto which I selected after analysing the options using DC Rainmaker's review as referred to above.
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Brilliant - I'd just found that DC Rainmaker article, to check if my trainer (also a direto as it happens) would meet the ANT+ FE-C requirements. :thumbsup:
ETA: From what I can see, if a trainer works with Zwift via ANT+ it'll work with V-Ride too.
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Yes, you need a smart trainer so the software can control the resistance
One thing to bring up is that "smart" and "controllable" aren't interchangeable. There's at least one product on the market - the Elite Turbo Muin Smart - that uses that word without being controllable. That confuses a lot of people.
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A trainer is controllable if it supports the FE-C protocol.
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Thanks for the contributions so far. Very interesting.
We talked about this over supper and refined what we are ideally looking for. We like the virtual scenery type presentation that our old tacx gave us but we'd rely like to just pick somewhere to "go for a ride" and find ourselves there virtually whether it be a good streetview type scenario or computer generated landscapes. We're not really interested in racing or training programmes specifically, rather just "getting out for a ride". The old tacx also gave an elementnof resistance for hill climbing which added to the enjoyment.
Perhaps a smart trainer would be seen as overkill but we'd not use a dumb trainer nearly as much because the interest element would be missing for us.
What you're looking for, in marketing speak, is engagement. Historically you have had that through moving pictures. I get it from social interactions (this has been more important while working from home- I miss people). drossall is getting it through a combination of social (his IRL club) and the gamification of zwift - all that levelling up and stamp-collecting of badges. The more athletic / stats minded get it from workouts, erm, working.
I don't think a smart trainer is overkill. It's like using a PC for browsing, sure, you can do it on a black and white grey & green 2004 phone screen, but the experience is much nicer.
Get the smart trainer. Try out the options - they almost all have free trials.
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I’ve been mulling over a smart trainer for a while now and pulled the trigger on a Wahoo KICKR this morning. Will it talk directly to an iPad or do I need an ANT dongle?
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I’ve been mulling over a smart trainer for a while now and pulled the trigger on a Wahoo KICKR this morning. Will it talk directly to an iPad or do I need an ANT dongle?
It will talk directly using Bluetooth. Enjoy!
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I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Tacx Neo 2T. Just need to clear the space in the outbuilding, and get ready to hide the bank statement from my wife.
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I got a Kickr at the start of lockdown (luckily, as they were rare as hen's teeth then). It has revolutionised my training and rejuvenated my love of cycling.
I've mainly used it for TrainerRoad structured interval training so far, but dabbled with some of the VR stuff out there and loved it. As said above, most of these have trial periods so you can get a feel for what works for you before shelling out.
Before I signed up to TrainerRoad I also used it with the Bolt for resistance training (as you would on a spin bike) and route-recreation.
So many options, so much fun!
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I got a Kickr at the start of lockdown (luckily, as they were rare as hen's teeth then). It has revolutionised my training and rejuvenated my love of cycling.
<snip>
Before I signed up to TrainerRoad I also used it with the Bolt for resistance training (as you would on a spin bike) and route-recreation.
So many options, so much fun!
Yes does seem to be a supply problem with some models.
When you say route recreation do you mean repeating the wet and windy ride you recorded on your Bolt in the comfort of your own home?
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When you say route recreation do you mean repeating the wet and windy ride you recorded on your Bolt in the comfort of your own home?
Precisely ;D
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I have a Tacx Neo 2 (pre T). I also invested in a fan, an Intel NUC and a tv for the shed. I use the Tacx desktop software to do their virtual rides, of which there are loads. I download in HD and some have been ridden multiple times. There are quite a lot of tours as well, so you can work through a series of rides in an area over a few days.
I tend to only ride inside if the weather is rubbish or I’m feeling time crunched, but this setup makes it more of a pleasure and less of a bind. I didn’t really engage with Zwift. Sometimes I play music while I’m riding to.
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Are you saying that Tacx desktop software has a load of virtual rides just like the 9lderniMagic used to have?
And, does the trainer connect with a cable to the NUC or by other means?
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Loads of rides and it connects to the NUC by the built in Bluetooth (BLE I think). It’s all pretty seamless. The only thing I had to do was pick up a cheap ble/ant heart rate strap from Halfords, as my Garmin strap only broadcasts on Ant+.
The rides cover all sorts of territory too, including some flat and lots of hilly. There are even some of my local rides on it, although I haven’t yet ridden any of these to see if the bill simulation is that accurate. My next indoor adventure will be riding an 18 part (iirc) tour of the Pyrenees. The video is shot from an e-bike at usually sensible speeds. Although it speeds up and slows down to your pace. Descending can even be unnerving as you barrel into sharp corners at 80km/h. Even little dips in the trick your mind into ‘feeling’ your stomach at the bottom of the dip. But mostly, it’s nice sunny scenery in the middle of ❄️
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Oh, you pay an annual license fee for the video access but the software is free as are a few rides to try it out. There are also training plan options if you want and you can, for example, do an interval session with a video running over the top. Similarly, you can tell it to dial back the slope of hills so you don’t have to ‘conquer’ Ventoux at full steepness (I want to write stepth) if you prefer.
If you’re into Strava it will link directly and will send the map of your virtual ride as well as the other data. For some reason, despite being owned by Garmin, it doesn’t sync directly to Connect. That would be good if you could then use physio true up to keep everything synced. As it is, I tend to record on the 935 and then delete the repeated Strava file after the event. Strava is primarily social as I have friends and clients using it.
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Sounds interesting. Thanks.
Oh, how much is the annual licence fee please? mllePB will want to know.
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There’s a tiered structure - free, e99.99 per year and e139.99 per year. The highest gives you 1080p video instead of 720p. I’ve tried to copy the text below.
You can also import gpx files to recreate your outdoor rides, or mine if you fancy climbing in the dales without the views! It appears it also works in iPad or something. I’ve just used the NUC pc.
FREE FEATURES
Create workouts
Free cycling
Analyse data
Dashboard statistics
Data export
Follow friends
Cross platform compatibility
PREMIUM
MONTHLY
€9,99
ANNUALLY
€99,99
All free features
Real life videos
Download up to 30 films a month
GPS import
3D GPS workouts
Training plans
Workout library
SUBSCRIBE
PREMIUM HD
MONTHLY
€13,99
ANNUALLY
€139,99
All Premium features
High quality films in 1080p
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Similarly, you can tell it to dial back the slope of hills so you don’t have to ‘conquer’ Ventoux at full steepness (I want to write stepth) if you prefer.
WRT Zwift, this has a similar feature for full on smart trainers that is described here:
https://zwiftinsider.com/best-trainer-difficulty-setting/ (https://zwiftinsider.com/best-trainer-difficulty-setting/)
Default is 50%. My last ride, hilly round New York, I whacked it up to 100%. I managed just over 30 minutes climbing lots out of the saddle and bothering muscles I forgot I had.
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I’ve been mulling over a smart trainer for a while now and pulled the trigger on a Wahoo KICKR this morning. Will it talk directly to an iPad or do I need an ANT dongle?
And it's arrived! Very impressive service from Rutland Cycling and Parcelforce; the initial mail said "we'll despatch in 5 days" which was a little disappointing but hey ho. Then I got a mail saying it had been despatched by Parcelforce 48.
Fast forward to this morning; went to drop the car for its M.O.T. and came home to find the Parcelforce van blocking th edrive and the driver at a neighbour's dropping off the parcel.
Just need to finish work and get it set up...
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I’ve been mulling over a smart trainer for a while now and pulled the trigger on a Wahoo KICKR this morning. Will it talk directly to an iPad or do I need an ANT dongle?
And it's arrived! Very impressive service from Rutland Cycling and Parcelforce; the initial mail said "we'll despatch in 5 days" which was a little disappointing but hey ho. Then I got a mail saying it had been despatched by Parcelforce 48.
Fast forward to this morning; went to drop the car for its M.O.T. and came home to find the Parcelforce van blocking th edrive and the driver at a neighbour's dropping off the parcel.
Just need to finish work and get it set up...
Don’t you mean ‘just need to get it set up and then go back to finish work.’
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I’ve been mulling over a smart trainer for a while now and pulled the trigger on a Wahoo KICKR this morning. Will it talk directly to an iPad or do I need an ANT dongle?
And it's arrived! Very impressive service from Rutland Cycling and Parcelforce; the initial mail said "we'll despatch in 5 days" which was a little disappointing but hey ho. Then I got a mail saying it had been despatched by Parcelforce 48.
Fast forward to this morning; went to drop the car for its M.O.T. and came home to find the Parcelforce van blocking th edrive and the driver at a neighbour's dropping off the parcel.
Just need to finish work and get it set up...
Don’t you mean ‘just need to get it set up and then go back to finish work.’
Maybe ;)
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My 2 pence worth:-
In May this year I changed from a wheel-on TACX dumb trainer and watching Sufferfest videos and a 2 week trial of Rouvy to a KickR Core plus a monthly subscription to Zwift.
The Core is really quiet - noise is mainly the drive train. The auto increase/ decrease of resistance is great and a real game changer as far as I'm concerned. You will have to invest ~£700, worth it imo.
I started by doing a few Zwift rides with some friends and chatted via Discord which worked well until we started going out into the real world again. I then did a training program over 12 weeks and I was pretty much hooked. I started working my way through the different courses/ worlds available but more recently have got into racing. This is mainly because I didn't want to randomly ride around solo and the courses left to explore were either too long or the elevation was stupidly huge e.g. Ven Top & Alpe du Zwift. I'll investigate the group rides that fboab mentioned though as it's nice to ride with people of a similar level.
At the moment the above combo works well for me and I'm nearly at the point where virtual miles are more than road miles. I am tempted to maybe try Sufferfest in the not too distant future just to mix things up.
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I am erring towards the Tacx Flux S, the lowest spec direct drive Tacx smart trainer. It does far far more than we need but fits the bill perfectly for many features.
We might do some "training" but we have no aspirations to anything even close to elite or even progressive stuff, rather we simply want to wind our legs on a regular basis over winter with an element of entertainment to it.
The decision is partly influenced by how much quieter direct drive units are compared to tyre drive. The turbo room is also our office cum laundry room and because we are in a mid-terrace also shares a party wall with the neighbours on one side.
So, Flux S unless anybody can persuade me differently.
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I'd only add my experience of tacx software, which is, it stinks. Very painful licensing, huge monolithic applications that don't like underpowered kit. Problems shifting the license and ultimately a poorer experience than the competition. This was about 3 years ago, but was very instrumental in my choice of a direct drive elite, which seemed better value, too.
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I was going to say the same, but my experience was a few years ago, so help my peace lest it had improved markedly. It seems not.
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So, Flux S unless anybody can persuade me differently.
they work fine, until they don't. i've managed to kill four of them, just by doing normal training. didn't want to be stuck with yet another replacement post brexit, so upgraded to neo2t the week they came out, it has been fine so far. you've been warned! ;D
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So, Flux S unless anybody can persuade me differently.
they work fine, until they don't. i've managed to kill four of them, just by doing normal training. didn't want to be stuck with yet another replacement post brexit, so upgraded to neo2t the week they came out, it has been fine so far. you've been warned! ;D
Yes - the Flux has something of a rep. If budget isn't an issue and you fancy a Tacx, do yourself a favour and just go for the Neo.
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Hmmm, that's not good and thanks for the heads up on that.
You'd think they'd have sorted it by now though, wouldn't you?
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Have to say that I’m impressed with the KICKR Core albeit only after 2 days. Easy to set up both the build and connecting to devices. Compared to the tyre on trainer it’s virtually silent and the feel is better. Started to dabble in the murky world of Zwift yesterday and the two work well together.
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I'm very happy with my Neo, which is now 3 years old and going strong.
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I'm very happy with my Neo, which is now 3 years old and going strong.
ditto
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I have just been ploughing through DCRainmaker's content on smart trainers. The Flux, Flux S and Flux 2 don't fare particularly well. Having said this he cites issues with almost every single trainer which is a tad depressing. I'm drifting towards the Kickr Core at the moment.
A new pc might be required and I noted Sojournermike's comment upthread about using a nuc. What spec please Mike?
What may happen is a shuffle of existing PC's depending upon the sort of pc processing power required for a smart trainer.
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I think you'd be happy with a Kickr (Core). I've always had excellent response from Wahoo when I've had issues in the past (though none at all with the Kickr to date).
I personally went for the Kickr rather than the Core due to its foldability as I have limited space, but the Core is reckoned to be just as good and a lot cheaper!
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someone on the internet was saying that the whole cycling tech field is characterized by immature products, prematurely released with frequent failures. it's made worse by feature creep taking dev time away from qa and bug repair. the only thing preventing disasters is good customer service*. maybe the immature products will not leave us with bad feelings, but unless you want to learn advanced repair and enjoy it, the current releases of trainers and bike computers are often disposable beta products.
* fwiw, i've had four flux replacements and two edge replacements. my friend had two kickr belts snapped in two years..
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The 2018 KickR got quieter because they switched to a toothless belt which needs a lot of tension. This is credited with causing a lot of failures due to the high tension this requires. There are a lot of unhappy owners who have multiple replacements. I’m not sure if they have addressed the fundamental issue.
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True there were a lot of problems with the 2018 Kickr initially. I wouldn't have bought mine in April 2020 if I wasn't pretty damn sure it had been resolved by then.
In any case, as I say Ive always found Wahoo to be exceptional with issues arising, to the extent of replacing a Bolt well out of its 2 year warranty period. Sadly that isn't the case with most manufacturers. That was what decided me on Wahoo when dropping £1k on a trainer.
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My laptop wasn't powerful enough to cope with the zwift or trainer road so I bought an Apple TV- this is the cheapest way to get Zwift on a big screen. If you start having to buy a laptop as well as the trainer it becomes quite an expensive project. Depending what software you choose you may not need a PC - lots of the apps run off iPads/ tablets (assuming you already have one you can use). My tablet doesn't have ANT+ which is worth checking.
I'd agree Wahoo have a good reputation for aftersales. Mr Smith had a replacement internal electrics for his Elite Drivo. In contrast, Tacx don't always have glowing reviews.
I'm irrationally put off Wahoo as they don't spll prprly.
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On some Android tablets, you just need to install the Ant+ plugin (https://support.bkool.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024879251-My-Android-tablet-doesn-t-detect-the-Simulator-via-ANT-). That's a BKool help page, but there's nothing there specific to that brand - or indeed to connecting to a trainer, as opposed to speed, cadence and HRM sensors. Of course, that's not going to work if the tablet doesn't have the underlying capabilities, but it's worth a try.
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I have just been ploughing through DCRainmaker's content on smart trainers. The Flux, Flux S and Flux 2 don't fare particularly well. Having said this he cites issues with almost every single trainer which is a tad depressing. I'm drifting towards the Kickr Core at the moment.
A new pc might be required and I noted Sojournermike's comment upthread about using a nuc. What spec please Mike?
What may happen is a shuffle of existing PC's depending upon the sort of pc processing power required for a smart trainer.
I’ll try to have a look at the spec later - can’t remember to be honest. It was a bit of a project, but they are nice bits of kit - it sits on top of a big external drive that has the videos and a music library on it. An indulgence, but it makes the turbo palatable.
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Thanks Mike.
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On some Android tablets, you just need to install the Ant+ plugin (https://support.bkool.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024879251-My-Android-tablet-doesn-t-detect-the-Simulator-via-ANT-). That's a BKool help page, but there's nothing there specific to that brand - or indeed to connecting to a trainer, as opposed to speed, cadence and HRM sensors. Of course, that's not going to work if the tablet doesn't have the underlying capabilities, but it's worth a try.
My Android phone doesn't have Ant+ built in. Loading the drivers, then plugging in a generic Ant+ dongle via a USB On The Go cable works with my trainer and Garmin HR belt. Not as neat, having a three inch tail on my phone, but it works.
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Especially an issue since I want to use the USB socket on the tablet for an external battery pack (a generic one), after several instances of the tablet's own battery going flat before I'd finished a route.
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Started the turbo NUC now and the spec is:
Core i5-8259U @ 2.3GHz
110Gb SSD
8Gb ram (2x4Gb iirc)
1Tb external hdd (that I had from the days before the NAS...)
I use an old wireless keyboard and mouse as controller. Runs Windows 10 64 bit, of course.
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This looks like the same one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K3XWCPX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_DJfMFb809MMJR (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K3XWCPX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_DJfMFb809MMJR)
Although mine didn’t come from there.
You need to add memory and ssd of course.
Mine runs Tacx desktop app and outputs 4K at 60hz quite happily, while playing music.
Since adding the mesh wifi even that just about reaches the shed without an extender:)
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Thanks Mike. I have been looking at them.
And an OS I guess?
I presume that you link the tacx using Bluetooth built in to both nuc and tacx?
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Yes, but you can download a bootable win 10 installation from Microsoft. I’ve tried various low cost codes, but haven’t managed to register it yet, although it sits perfectly happily in my ms account alongside various other registered win 10 installations. Think I booted from sd card.
Yes, the nuc has internal Bluetooth, so links to the trainer using that. I also bought a dual band heart strap from Halfords that I only use on the trainer.
The only thing that isn’t seamless is that garmin haven’t got Tacx cloud to sync with garmin connect yet. Hence it goes direct from Tacx to Strava, but I have to use a garmin device to record the training for connect, and then delete that version from Strava - first world problems!
Also, on Garmin and it’s first world problems, they updated the first beat analytics between the edge 1000 and the 530. As a consequence, with physio true up my 530 gives me different training loads to my forerunner 935! Connect now has two records of training status to separate the devices, although both do account for all activities after syncing.
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We're definitely interested in getting a smart trainer so I've been watching this thread.
How easy is something like the Kickr to set up for the technically/mechanically inept? And presumably you have to buy the appropriate cassette for the bike that's going on it and fit that too? Apologies if this is a really thick question.
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Yes, you'll need an appropriate cassette. I don't recall any particular hassles setting up my Elite Direto with Zwift. Start up Zwift, turn the pedals and see what HRM/cadence/speed/power sensors pop up. Agree and off you go. Possibly an earlier step to tell Zwift to look for the ANT+ sensor, I have a USB stick on an extension from the laptop to close to the turbo.
Oh, and do buy a front wheel riser (unless you get that fancy one with a rising front wheel attachment or steerer system of course). I bought an Elite one because it allows the front wheel to swivel slightly as well as raising it so the bike is "level".
In addition, I bought some 1cm thick foam interlocking floor tiles (about 60cm square) on which to stand everything, and it's also wipe down and noise damping, if that's an issue.
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The biggest faff with getting a smart trainer set up is working which physical stuff you need and where to place it - TV, phone, water, fans, remote controls, sweat catchers, mats, riser blocks, etc.
That and figuring out what you actually want to do with Zwift et al.
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How easy is something like the Kickr to set up for the technically/mechanically inept?
Depends how inept you are. I GAMI - the only thing I do myself to my bikes is lube and punctures. At least one of the smart trainers now comes with a cassette - I can't help thinking if I lived alone I might well have bought that one.
We have bikes we leave on the trainers. I'd've broken something if I kept trying to take it on & off, such is my level of ineptitude.
The biggest faff with getting a smart trainer set up is working which physical stuff you need and where to place it - TV, phone, water, fans, remote controls, sweat catchers, mats, riser blocks, etc.
^is not much of an exaggeration. We use music stands - well, he does, I have a handy windowsill. You really can't get away without a fan- even bimbling generates masses of heat, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a sweaty mess.
I do appreciate not everyone has a dedicated room they can put all this stuff in.
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I have an unheated shed, which is a challenge on the fan front in the winter - I really need a "smart" fan heater I can voice control to start off warm and gradually reduce heat as I get sweatier. And boy, as fboab says, do you ever sweat on a turbo. My last session I forgot my towel, and I don't wear mitts on the turbo, and by the end I could barely grip for the slick of sweat.
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A kickr comes with a cassette and is fairly easy to get going on , I have had mine for 3 plus years and it’s been very good I would buy it again .
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We're definitely interested in getting a smart trainer so I've been watching this thread.
How easy is something like the Kickr to set up for the technically/mechanically inept? And presumably you have to buy the appropriate cassette for the bike that's going on it and fit that too? Apologies if this is a really thick question.
The Kickr comes with a Shimano-compatible 11 speed cassette already fitted. If you buy the Kickr Core you need to supply and fit a suitable cassette.
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A kickr comes with a cassette and is fairly easy to get going on , I have had mine for 3 plus years and it’s been very good I would buy it again .
They don’t anymore! Or at least thE KICKR Core that I bought last week didn’t.
Set up is easy: bolt on the legs with the supplied spanner and fit the cassette. Setting the electronics is even easier you just need to turn it on and search for it in whatever app or computer you use.
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Thanks everyone, that's useful.
How easy is something like the Kickr to set up for the technically/mechanically inept?
Depends how inept you are. I GAMI - the only thing I do myself to my bikes is lube and punctures. At least one of the smart trainers now comes with a cassette - I can't help thinking if I lived alone I might well have bought that one.
We have bikes we leave on the trainers. I'd've broken something if I kept trying to take it on & off, such is my level of ineptitude.
The biggest faff with getting a smart trainer set up is working which physical stuff you need and where to place it - TV, phone, water, fans, remote controls, sweat catchers, mats, riser blocks, etc.
^is not much of an exaggeration. We use music stands - well, he does, I have a handy windowsill. You really can't get away without a fan- even bimbling generates masses of heat, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a sweaty mess.
I do appreciate not everyone has a dedicated room they can put all this stuff in.
The bolded words pretty much describe me. I've tried very hard to be better but it literally led to blood sweat and tears so now LBS does the bulk of any work needed.
Bike would be in the living room corner near an existing built in cupboard housing the meters which would also provide a handy ledge for ipad and fan. Not ideal (my mother would be horrified) but we both want it and aren't likely to have visitors over winter given the current situation. It's handily next to a plug socket. We'd put my road bike on it and leave it there because it will fit both of us and that bike isn't likely to see much outdoors in winter when I prefer the tourer or hybrid. Noise is not too much of a worry because we live in a house built later than the rest of the terrace and for some reason they decided to leave it detached, which I am forever grateful for given my next door neighbour likes a moan.
It's fitting the cassette that's worrying me - how easy is that?
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We're definitely interested in getting a smart trainer so I've been watching this thread.
How easy is something like the Kickr to set up for the technically/mechanically inept? And presumably you have to buy the appropriate cassette for the bike that's going on it and fit that too? Apologies if this is a really thick question.
The Kickr comes with a Shimano-compatible 11 speed cassette already fitted. If you buy the Kickr Core you need to supply and fit a suitable cassette.
Road bike has 10 speed Campag veloce as fitted by Charlotte before I bought it from her, so looks like I need one without a cassette in any case.
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Yes, but you can download a bootable win 10 installation from Microsoft. I’ve tried various low cost codes, but haven’t managed to register it yet, although it sits perfectly happily in my ms account alongside various other registered win 10 installations. Think I booted from sd card.
You don't actually need to buy a copy of windows 10 for it. I've used the downloadable boot image from microsoft to install on an old NUC I use for Zwift. The only thing is you get a constant "Activate Windows" overlay on the bottom right corner of the screen. That shows up all the time, but not while you're running Zwift.
The NUC I use is fairly old, and runs Zwift OK, but can be painful doing updates despite a fairly speedy SSD drive. I've been waiting for 20-30 minutes sometimes waiting for Zwift updates to take place, so I'd recommend a quicker machine than my old Nuc (An Intel NUC5CPYH, 1.6gz Celeron processor)
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It's fitting the cassette that's worrying me - how easy is that?
How-to video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAI7RGzrBXs
Edit: the white "tool" mentioned comes with the cassette in the box, if you're buying a new cassette. For a KickR Core as shown in the video the only tool you definitely need is the lockring tool.
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It's fitting the cassette that's worrying me - how easy is that?
How-to video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAI7RGzrBXs
Edit: the white "tool" mentioned comes with the cassette in the box, if you're buying a new cassette. For a KickR Core as shown in the video the only tool you definitely need is the lockring tool.
Hmm that makes it look doable (but I've been fooled that way before) though I'd need to buy the lockring tool.
Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
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Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.
Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.
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Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.
Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.
thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.
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Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.
Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.
thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.
The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?
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Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.
Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.
thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.
The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?
Confusingly, someone asked this question on Wiggle and a Wiggle staff member replied back that it wasn't compatible - but that might have been referring to an older model. It's not clear.
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Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?
Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.
Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.
thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.
The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?
Confusingly, someone asked this question on Wiggle and a Wiggle staff member replied back that it wasn't compatible - but that might have been referring to an older model. It's not clear.
This is Wahoo's take on it:
This freehub comes in two varieties: one supports 2014 and 2016 Edition with Campagnolo 9, 10, and 11 speed cassettes, while the other supports '18, '20 Edition KICKR and KICKR CORE with most* Campagnolo 10, 11, and 12 speed cassettes.
https://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/accessories/campagnolo-freehub-for-kickr-power-trainer
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Indeed, there seem to be two versions of it - the one Wiggle have appears to be the older one.
The new one isn't in stock anywhere that I can see. :facepalm:
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Wonder if something like this might work? Sacrilege some might say but I'm not bothered if it works.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s150p2151/AMBROSIO-10-Speed-Shimano-spline-Campagnolo-spacing
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this should work and would be the most straightforward solution (a spacer may or may not be required).
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this should work and would be the most straightforward solution (a spacer may or may not be required).
Thanks for this and thanks to everyone else who has answered my inane questions. I have decided to get a Kickr Core before we end up in Tier 3/4/umpteen and they all sell out again, plus an Ambrosio cassette and a cassette tool. I can but try and at least the dog is no longer around to get visibly distressed and go into hiding whenever I get the bike tools out.
Used the insurance money from the holiday we had just started before Covid thoroughly ruined it, because we're unlikely to be going far in the near future. Hopefully this will be an antidote to the fact that it's impossible to do a pleasant loop in an hour round here (plus the incident posted about elsewhere has made me a bit warier of the narrow skoggy lanes once you do get out of town).
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Good luck with it nstn. The neo comes with a strange cassette which seems to fit both shimano and campag. It looks really odd. It’s a shame wahoo haven’t gone with this approach or allowed you to specify when ordering (I have a distant memory of them doing this in the past, may be wrong).
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Hope it all works well for you ntsn.
We're going to pull the trigger on a Core shortly too and a NUC although the NUC is not for the turbo. There will be a rationalisation of the PC estate.
We have a turbo bike already so the back wheel will be removed and the cassette put onto the Core. The bike works well for mllePB and I can manage it too so that's good enough.
Now, to join Zwift or something else ...
With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user? The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
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With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user? The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.
However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.
[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.
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I suspected as much. Things to ponder ...
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Thanks PB and sorry to hijack your thread.
Looks like I may be too late anyway. I ordered from Wiggle (as they were showing in stock, which has always been reliable up til now) and having taken the dosh, I see it's on 'back order' with no indication as to when they might be getting some in.
Most other places also seem to be sold out. Rutland Cycles have 'last few remaining' on click and collect only, which doesn't work for me.
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Not a problem. Lots of useful stuff there for all to see.
I have only had negative experiences with Rutland Cycles.
There seems to be a shortage generally. I intend to work through the pages of a search and check until I find one - hopefully. The price seems to be the same anywhere in the UK.
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When I was looking in March everywhere was out of stock. I set up an alert on Wiggle had got an email a couple of days later. Ordered quickly!
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
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Well, I have worked through the pages and, drawn a blank.
We'll be ordering from Wiggle I guess. Gives me time to get my NUC and do some tech upgrades and computer shuffling.
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Looks like I was lucky with Rutland last week then. Have to say that despite PB's misgivings I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Rutland again. Despite them estimating 5 days it came in less than 24 hours!.
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Looks like I was lucky with Rutland last week then. Have to say that despite PB's misgivings I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Rutland again. Despite them estimating 5 days it came in less than 24 hours!.
They seem to have stopped delivering - click and collect only, which is no use to me.
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While you're trying to track down a new trainer, I found this Lunicus thread (https://lunicus.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=342) and this TT forum thread (http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/131123-old-tacx-flow-into-smart-trainer/) which might be interesting - but you'd probably need Kim to put them into practice :-[
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Spurred on by this thread I bought a Kickr from Sigma Sports in Oakham and, as they are fairly local, I picked it up yesterday afternoon. The shop has only been open 6 weeks, the staff were good, some of the bikes they have on display are stunning!
Got it home, struggled to get it out of the box as it is such a substantial lump of a thing. It seems well put together and relatively easy to set up. I had a bit of a play on it then heard 'the noise'.
If I allow it to coast down in erg mode where it is trying to get me to hold say 200W it obvously ramps up the torque requirement as the speed drops - you can hear a bit of a currenty hum thing going on. Just before rotation stops there is a metallic scraping sound coming from the flywheel. There is no discernible play in the flywheel so my suspicion is that the poles of one or more of the electromagnets that control the resistance are pulling hard enough to reduce the airgap to zero.
Anyway - contacted the shop first thing this morning who said by all means bring it in but you would probably be better off talking directly to Wahoo. I was a bit reluctant as I believe that it is the shop's responsibility. Stuck a support ticket up on the Wahoo website and was amazed/impressed to get a sensible response after 2 hours. I provided the requested information and two hours later received another message that basically said 'That's not right - we will send you a replacement'.
Obviously I would prefer to have a product that 'just works' but so far I cannot fault Wahoo's response having received one that doesn't.
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That's been my experience with Wahoo. Even though it's technically the responsibility of the retailer, Wahoo have said to contact them directly as it speeds the whole process up.
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
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It's an Elite Novo smart something or other old school wheel on smart turbo I have. Seeing as my road bike has ye olde worlde 8 speed cassette on the rear, that was the easiest solution, rather than upgrading drive train to 9/10 speed to be compatible with a direct drive trainer.
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With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user? The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.
However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.
[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.
After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy. You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for. Gets reasonable reviews too.
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With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user? The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.
However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.
[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.
After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy. You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for. Gets reasonable reviews too.
Have a read here https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-app-guide.html. Fulgaz may also appeal - again multiple users and a free trial period. Note that it need to use BLE rather than ANT+. I’ve just pulled the trigger on a used Garmin cadence sensor 2 for that reason, and a Wahoo Tickr HRM strap. Both are dual BLE/ANT+ devices.
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With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user? The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.
However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.
[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.
After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy. You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for. Gets reasonable reviews too.
Rouvy has just updated its list of compatible trainers ( non have been removed) . Wattbike Atoms look like being added soon.
The big issue with some trainers is the automatic climb resistance. Not an issue unless you want to race or collect badges like a scout.
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I loved the videos of rides I know on Rouvy. I may go back to it at some point, or use it alongside Zwift. Especially if we're not going out on the real roads for a bit...
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It's an Elite Novo smart something or other old school wheel on smart turbo I have. Seeing as my road bike has ye olde worlde 8 speed cassette on the rear, that was the easiest solution, rather than upgrading drive train to 9/10 speed to be compatible with a direct drive trainer.
if the cassette is 8sp shimano, then there are no compatibility issues with direct drive trainers. even a 7sp cassette could work with an appropriate spacer.
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Wiggle's back order turned out to be a mistake and the Kickr Core has just arrived. Had fun getting that over the step.
Not that I can start to use it until Spa feel like posting me my new shimano/campag cassette.
I could rob the cassette off the Surly LHT in the mean time, that's Shimano, but I like plodding round outside on that bike during the winter so would rather not. I suspect my dislike of doing more fettling than absolutely necessary will overcome any impatience.
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That's good news. :thumbsup:
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That's good news. :thumbsup:
It certainly is, and a nice surprise.
Happily the shimano/campag cassette arrived today and I appear to have managed to fit it (I say appear to, until the bike is on and everything is working I won't quite believe it's ok). It will surprise no one to learn that it certainly did not all slide on in one smooth go as demonstrated in the link posted upthread, but I still managed to get it on.
It didn't need the spacer that came with the Kickr Core, despite some stuff online saying that you did need it for 10-speed cassettes. I did try but there wasn't room for the smallest cog, so took it out again.
Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.
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Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.
Sensible use of delegation. :thumbsup:
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Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.
Sensible use of delegation. :thumbsup:
Yes I thought so too.
Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.
I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.
One of the best things was being able to do an hour's riding of a dark evening without having to dice with Croydon's finest.
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I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.
Some groups are better than others at keeping the advertised pace - one reason fboab and I have ridden with the PACK on Zwift a lot - they are assiduous at keeping the advertised pace, so if you join their beginner rides, they WILL be 1.5w/Kg.
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I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.
Some groups are better than others at keeping the advertised pace - one reason fboab and I have ridden with the PACK on Zwift a lot - they are assiduous at keeping the advertised pace, so if you join their beginner rides, they WILL be 1.5w/Kg.
This was PACK - I think they did stick to the advertised pace and I did just about manage not to be dropped completely, I usually had a few of the group around me. I simply haven't ridden steadily at 20mph without stopping for an hour before! I just fancied seeing if I could seeing as it was a pretty flat course and I wouldn't have things like drivers and other hazards to worry about.
It was (in hindsight) amusing to hear them chatting calmly about cake over Discord while I huffed and puffed.
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Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.
Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.
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The beginner's rides will have a large group of sweepers at the back to help you get back into the group if you lose the draught.
We'll look out for you next time we're on!
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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I did my first Zwift "event" today - a race with ABCD groups. It was a lot more then anything else I've done on Zwift, although it had same problem as real life events - if you fall off the main pack(s) the stragglers are too spread out and you end up doing most of it on your own.
Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence.
ERG mode only works if you have a wattage target for it to aim at (e.g. in a structured workout). If you're riding around or racing there's no power value for it to match.
I suppose you could do something analogous by offering virtual gears or whatever, but Zwift doesn't do that.
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Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.
Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.
You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.
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You cannot use erg mode in a group ride on Zwift (though the leader can, I believe). The only way of using erg mode is to set up a workout and define the wattage required. That automatically makes it impossible to join a group ride. The concept of ‘group workouts’ was developed to try and marry the two ideas, but in my experience they are rather strange due to the ‘rubber-band’ effect.
In any case, even if you could set a fixed power to match the target W/kg of the group ride, the variability of the draft effect would make it very difficult to stay with the group, and once the draft is lost you’re out the back!
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I pedal corrected.
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Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.
Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.
You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.
Thanks fboab, I had been using them as normal so good to know!
Did a social meetup today (bunch of women I know from a fb group) with the 'elastic' which was much easier and still a bit of a workout.
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You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.
I don't ;D
I'm on a dumb trainer with fixed/single speed, as I've described before. I've done several group rides with my club, and it worked fine. I'm producing constant(-ish) power output, as anyone does, so it works fine. They may all be on smart trainers, requiring increased effort on simulated hills, but they counter-balance that by gearing down to reduce the effort back to roughly the previous level, so we're all the same really. They use the "elastic", as we call it, to hold the group together anyway.
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We missed out on the Kickr Core in the last shopping round but I have been diligently checking daily and have set up a number of notifications. Checked just now and found that Sigma Sports have them in stock.
Ordered.
That's mllePB's Christmas pressie. She needs to buy me a Nuc now. 👍
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Just had confirmation that it will arrive on Tuesday. Great stuff !!!
We are now seriously considering a Samsung Galaxy Tab S7+ rather than a Nuc which will also be very useful for me and we can run the Wahoo trainer app and the Rouvy app using it. I'd look to get the necessary hardware to mount it to the bars.
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But the NUC’s are just nice things!! I haven’t found an excuse for another, but...
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Sigma Sports advertise a load of free software trials (including Rouvy) with the Kickr Core. I had to chase Wahoo for the codes but they were pretty responsive once I gave them a nudge.
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But the NUC’s are just nice things!! I haven’t found an excuse for another, but...
Nuc's are very nice and I found a fanless case to transplant it into which is very slim and would look nice under the TV, but, we have two decent pc's and a tablet would get much more use from me as well as from turbo use. It sort of makes sense really.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
Currys PC World agrees to honour Black Friday prices of cancelled orders (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55250097)
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
Currys PC World agrees to honour Black Friday prices of cancelled orders (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55250097)
Unfortunately we bought after their stipulated cutoff date so we are not included. Their offer was still on the website yesterday but they have finally taken it down today. Yesterday I tried to buy again but guess what? Yep, unable to complete the transaction.
Samsung has it's usual seasonal refund scheme running at the moment and we had hoped to get both the back Friday discount and the Samsung refund but we'll have to settle for just the Samsung refund. As the price is the same everywhere there is no need to patronise CPCW.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
My mum worked for Trading Standards and we were never allowed to buy anything from Currys because of the amount of complaints she received.
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This does not surprise me. When I was doing the pro bond clinic many clients had issues with them. They are not unique of course.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
My mum worked for Trading Standards and we were never allowed to buy anything from Currys because of the amount of complaints she received.
How are you getting on with your Kickr Core? mllePB's arrived this week. It's her Christmas pressie so it's not set up yet but I guess that it probably will be before Christmas Day.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
Currys PC World agrees to honour Black Friday prices of cancelled orders (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55250097)
Unfortunately we bought after their stipulated cutoff date so we are not included. Their offer was still on the website yesterday but they have finally taken it down today. Yesterday I tried to buy again but guess what? Yep, unable to complete the transaction.
Samsung has it's usual seasonal refund scheme running at the moment and we had hoped to get both the back Friday discount and the Samsung refund but we'll have to settle for just the Samsung refund. As the price is the same everywhere there is no need to patronise CPCW.
Bought one from John Lewis online for the same price as CPCW were pretending to sell it and we can still claim the Samsung cashback on top. That's my Christmas pressie sorted and everything we need to get the turbo up and running.
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Gah! We've fallen foul of the Curry's PC World Black Friday "technical issues" and it looks like our order for the tablet is unlikely to be fulfilled. Of course in legal terms they can squirm out as there is never an obligation to sell as such but though they claim technical issues their website pricing is not a clear and obvious error and it is still current up there for the world to see. Advertising something at such a price to fish for custom is of course illegal but I doubt that any action or sanction will befall them.
Oh well, another retailer to put on my black list.
My mum worked for Trading Standards and we were never allowed to buy anything from Currys because of the amount of complaints she received.
How are you getting on with your Kickr Core? mllePB's arrived this week. It's her Christmas pressie so it's not set up yet but I guess that it probably will be before Christmas Day.
Really well. I just had to get an ANT+ dongle to make the Macbook connect more reliably but all fine apart from that.
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That's good. 👍
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John Lewis delivered where CPCW failed. I have been checking it and setting it up. I am using it now. Lurvly!!!
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So, a whole week later and mysteriously CPCW have decided to send me an email suggesting that they are now processing my order for free delivery for any day except Friday Dec 11th December. The email is timed at 03:01 12th December. D'oh!
Anyway, I have an order number but nothing else and the order number is completely ignored by their own Track My Order process which is accessed by a button on the email. It goes to their website but entering details results in, well, a page reset.
The one useful bit of information is how I can return the item and if I paid by PayPal which I did, I can get a full refund.
Let's see how this one goes, eh?
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Do you know the courier and tracking number? I’ve had ones where the link went to the wrong page, but the tracking number was correct.
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This is CPCW's own tracking system. They have acknowledged the order but nothing more from them. I have little expectation of the order being processed this side of 2021, if ever.
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Completely unsurprisingly, CPCW has now cancelled my order. Samsung Galaxy Tab S7+ are no longer available for delivery apparently unless I go and order one now costing £80 more.
Just as well then that John Lewis were able to honour our order and did so with absolutely no fuss. Their loss now and in future. I'll not waste time and money with them ever again.
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Had serious problem with them when we bought a cooker. Sadly they don't have enough competition since Comet* went. In York Comet were nearly next door to Currys.
* Wiki says "The UK Computer Group bought the rights to the Comet brand and the website from the liquidators Deloitte in December 2019.[80] In July 2020, they promised a relaunch on social media.[citation needed] In August 2020 the Comet website was relaunched as a trading name of Misco Technologies.[81] All former Comet stores remain closed and there are no known plans to reopen any physical locations.[82]"
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If anybody is still looking Sigma Sports have just emailed me to tell me that the Waboo Kickr Core is back in stock.