I've come to a conclusion

[Blodwyn Pig]

Hmmm, let me see,  oh yes,  'bents and upwrongs, do not good bedfellows, make.     

Owning one of each is becoming a bit of a pain.i seem to spend  most of Autumn / Winter/early spring (crap weather months) on my upwrong Olive,  fettling this, moving that, and by this time of year I'm seemingly quite happy with my lot comfort/speed wise,preparing myself for an annual winter hostelling weekend, (Purbeck this year),  reliability rides, possible early Audax type stuff.  Then I wheels out Grunhilda for a spin,I does.Hmm ,that hurts, then I spends another 5-6 months trying to get fit on the 'bent,  and losing fitness/familiarity with Olive.  End f season BHPC race at Hillingdon, sees me as good as it gets, then it's decline, swap bikes rinse cycle repeat!  is it all worth it?   Why don't I just sell 'hilda and make do with one bike. I did this years 50k reliability ride on 'hilda this year, first time,wasn't slow,wasn't fast, would have been quicker of Olive, with less pain. Hmmmm!

Went out this morning on 'hilda with the trailer to retrieve some dumped roofing battens, (for use as kindling), then back out to Wickes,for 30kg worth of ECO coal (crushed and formed Olive stone, VERY GOOD STUFF, 3x 10kg for £24 plus a 10% discount) .Useful load lugger it is, but is it worth it,trailer won't really fit on Olive very well,  without lots of bracketry fettling.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK swaps between upright bike, recumbent trike and upright trike daily, choosing machines to suit that day’s riding. That approach avoids the acclimation problem but extends it, if starting from ground zero.

[Kim]

+1.  I love riding recumbents, but often an upright really is the best tool for the job.  I tend to mix enough upright utility riding (usually with a decent load) that I can swap between the two without too much muscular drama (the exception being the mountain bike - I've done so little off-road riding in recent years that anything technical results in all sorts of novel aches and pains).  What throws me most is getting back on an upright after a period of recumbent touring, where it takes me a while to get past the feeling that any significant downhill braking is going to make me land on my face.

I'm always reminded of rower40's wisdom on this subject: He reckoned that alternating between upright, recumbent and rowing meant he was doomed to be mediocre at all of them.

I think it ultimately comes down to the philosophy of n+1 vs n=1

[Lightning Phil]

Keep riding your recumbent through winter. Problem solved.

[Blodwyn Pig]

Keep riding your recumbent through winter. Problem solved.

salt laden roads, and an alluminium frame and components....

p'raps I'm just getting bored with 'bents. the Street Machine is a superb tourer......but I don't tour, it's a crap racer.......but i race,  could get a fast 'bent, but wouldn't want to ride it on the roads local to me, that's why I went for the SM as an allrounder. Hmmmm 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK's Kinesis is her 'go to' winter bike. It is an Al-framed upright and all of our bikes have Al components. About the only thing HK avoids on her recumbent during winter are deep puddles (which kill idler bearings on a low-slung trike). She does choose cheaper, darker tops to avoid being overly 'trike-pocked' from roadspray.

If you want speed, go for a fast machine. It is easy to be enthusiastic about riding a machine that rewards putting some effort in. It is much more difficult to be enthusiastic about riding something that is a slug.

[fd3]

p'raps I'm just getting bored with 'bents.

Possibly the crux of the matter here.  That and maybe you need a specific bike for a specific job, not an all rounder.

I sold my SPM because I got a Catrike and the Cat did all the "fun" stuff whereas the DF does all the "practical" stuff.  If I could I would ride the Catrike more but it isn't as practical (especially school run stuff and lugging it thru the house).

So, you want to buy a proper racer recumbent, problem solved.

[Kim]

I note that riding a Streetmachine is Good Training™ for racing a faster bent...

But yes, its features as a bicycle are squarely aimed at load carrying and crap surfaces, and if you're doing neither you're bound to end up with the sense that you're lugging a lot of pointless weight and mechanical complexity around.

But faster 'bents aren't purely for the race track.  The Optima Baron is as eminently road-rideable as low-racers get, and I've done a fair bit of it.  On a flatter summer ride without too much stop-start nonsense it's a delight, but being low down becomes tiresome as soon as the precipitation begins, the surface gets sketchy, or the oncoming vehicles turn their headlights on.  I've concluded that lightweight high-racers in the vein of the Schlitter Freestyle or Pelso Brevet are the way to go for audax type riding: Large wheels roll well without heavy suspension, you're high enough to be out of the beam/splash zone, and have an acceptable view of potholes etc.  And they clearly perform competitively on the race track, especially on the circuits where acceleration trumps aerodynamics.

And then there are the trikes:  The textbook ICE Adventure (and anything by HPVelotechnik) is firmly an all-surface tourer in the Streetmachine mould; ideal for all-day trundling, less so if you're not.  More nippy tadpoles like the VTX, Windcheetah, the leaner Catrikes and similar can be a delight in the right conditions (see above regarding precipitation and headlights, with a special exemption clause for ice).  Deltas are another matter entirely.  The Kettwiesel certainly isn't a *fast* machine, but they make up for it with a cornering ability that results in a compulsory enormous grin.

To say nothing of velomobiles.  All the disadvantages of trikes, combined with all the disadvantages of all-out racing machines, at about 5 times the price.  But for that you get superhuman performance while laughing in the face of weather...

[Auntie Helen]

Actually Velomobile and trike prices aren’t so far apart now - my chum Ralf just bought an e-trike for 12.000€  A new DF velomobile would be 10.000€ (without a motor)

[PaulM]

Get a high racer. You're tall enough  . How about this Encore frameset? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125464822561

[cycleman]

The trike idea is ideal for all year riding all year round..there's a motorcycle protective spray that's available for stopping road salt damage. Trikes are superb for towing trailers and cycle camping.  They are slower uphill than there 2 wheel equivalents but I find that not having to worry about balance means I see more when touring. They can also be raced . And of course comfort, comfort, comfort   

[Kim]

The trike idea is ideal for all year riding all year round..there's a motorcycle protective spray that's available for stopping road salt damage. Trikes are superb for towing trailers and cycle camping.  They are slower uphill than there 2 wheel equivalents but I find that not having to worry about balance means I see more when touring. They can also be raced . And of course comfort, comfort, comfort   

Yeahbut he's already got a Streetmachine.  Advantages of a touring trike over that are marginal to say the least, given that he's not having balance issues, and isn't doing any touring.

Fast trikes are another matter, but the emphasis there is fun rather than practicality.

[PaulM]

Audaxing on a trike would be very hard.

[Always Cross]

I’ve used my Ice Adventure trike on audax I usually pick the slower kph ones 10/12 ones and 100km flattish one no aaa at all.  The only time I see people is at the beginning after that they are all in front of me.  So long as you are prepared to ride on your own taking your time it’s ok.  It would be frustrating if you expected to ride with anyone unless you’re a lot quicker than me.

[Lightning Phil]

Audaxing on a trike would be very hard.

LEL and PBP are done on trikes. 

[Kim]

There's a Rule According To Kim™ that says "Just because somebody has done PBP on one doesn't mean it's a good idea."

But again, there's a bit of a difference between, say, a Windcheetah and an ICE adventure.  There's also a bit of a difference between PBP and a typical BRITISH skoggy lanefest.

[Lightning Phil]

But it emphasis audax on a trike is not necessarily very hard, no more than being very hard on certain bikes depending on fitness.  Plenty to choose from that you don’t end up in skoggy lanes.

[Always Cross]

I was looking at LEL it wouldn’t be too bad for me speed wise 12 kph if I wouldn’t need to sleep, eat or anything else

[nobrakes]

I have been through a similar process over the past couple of years.

At one point I had a Fuego, ICE Sprint and M5 CHR. I sold the trike because it was just too slow and I wasn't using it much in the winter any more which was the main reason I bought it. I got an MTB instead. I sold the CHR last year because it was brutally rigid on the potholed mess we call roads. I once found myself getting 'air' after hitting a pothole at speed with added excitement of finding myself levitating a few inches above the seat followed by complete loss of control and straight off the road. The limited tyre clearance at the back was a deal breaker eventually, and the rigidity was causing me vibration nerve problems in my feet. I bought a steel road bike instead.

Experientially I have lost the recumbent grin to some extent. The Fuego is by far the best all round machine I have tried but is quite slow at long distance speeds. It's a lot of fun to ride as long as it's not dark in the rain, which is not so much fun in traffic being so low. Lots of road spray in the face and dazzled by headlights. It's a nice machine for a slow wander on a sunny Saturday though. Slow up hills at all day pace.

I am trying to keep myself in the dark side game as I have more recently taken an interest in audax and want to hedge my bets. I'm not sure I'll ever get above 300s on a road bike although I'm going to try. I'm ok up to that distance on my steel upwrong so maybe I can push that out further, but I'm not going to do anything with long term consequences such as months of nerve problems in my hands by trying something really long if it transpires that I'm not up to the task.

I do most of my miles on an upwrong now, and complement that with extra stuff each week on the recumbent. I'm more adapted to road bikes and my recumbent speed has tailed off a bit, but has improved a lot since the start of the year (i only did about 20 miles last year on a bent whereas I used to do around 6000 a year, and my first ride after the break was brutally slow, very humbling ) I find it useful to do extra training miles on the recumbent as it allows for different muscle use so more aerobic conditioning with less fatigue for my harder rides on the road bike.

I have bad foot pain problems on recumbents that I have yet to find a solution for. Worse than the hand / butt pain on a road bike. If I ever get that sorted I might look at getting a Pelso Brevet or Schlitter Freestyle as an audax platform. I only want bikes that can take wider tyres now so would look at something that could get me 38 or 42mm tyres with mudguards. I'm waiting to see if I can overcome the problem first.

A bit of variety is nice, but I do now prefer the experience of being on a road bike again. Have to work a bit harder at core strength etc but it's worth it for the enjoyment it brings when out on the road.

[ElyDave]

I note that riding a Streetmachine is Good Training™ for racing a faster bent...

But yes, its features as a bicycle are squarely aimed at load carrying and crap surfaces, and if you're doing neither you're bound to end up with the sense that you're lugging a lot of pointless weight and mechanical complexity around.

But faster 'bents aren't purely for the race track.  The Optima Baron is as eminently road-rideable as low-racers get, and I've done a fair bit of it.  On a flatter summer ride without too much stop-start nonsense it's a delight, but being low down becomes tiresome as soon as the precipitation begins, the surface gets sketchy, or the oncoming vehicles turn their headlights on.  I've concluded that lightweight high-racers in the vein of the Schlitter Freestyle or Pelso Brevet are the way to go for audax type riding: Large wheels roll well without heavy suspension, you're high enough to be out of the beam/splash zone, and have an acceptable view of potholes etc.  And they clearly perform competitively on the race track, especially on the circuits where acceleration trumps aerodynamics.

Large wheels - I'd include 650B adn 26" in that. 
Saturday just gone I swapped my 700c x 28 for 650B x 38 on my S40 and instead of spending time bouncing off of potholes in the vertical direction, 4bar tyres just absorbed the load.

My bents have been
- ICE B2 - great to learn on, SMGT style weight problems
- M5 low racer, not ideal audax fodder, great at speed, bugger in traffic.  Illustrates the "you need to be confident to be quick" problem
- Cruzbike S40 - my favrourite so far, quick enough for day rides, audaxes etc and capable of being loaded up for touring.  With appropriate gearing also good(ish) on hills

I have looked at the Pelso Brevet as an alternative, but did not see scope for luggages.

Upwrongs at the moment are Airnimal, intended for travel, never left TEH FENZ and now my commuter; 90's MTB for fun in the back droves; Fairlight Faran built for KAW last year and now used as general purpose steed and winter audaxes; 18 yo Al frame on a turbo trainer. 

It's horses for courses, and now that I've re-shod it, I'd expect that the S40 gets a bit more non-summer use.

[Arellcat]

Bikes are a lot like shoes, in that you could just have one pair of shoes and probably do 90% of everything walkingwise that you reasonably want to do, and accept that the other 10% of activities are going to be some degree of impractical or uncomfortable or slow or some other miserable adjective, short of accepting that you simply won't do them.

There's always going to be a faster, lighter, more comfortable, stronger, tougher, more interesting and more fun bike, and the pursuit of that is why (n+1) exists.

After spending years on my Windcheetah I wanted suspension and to not have three wheels, so I got my Speedmachine.  I rode that a lot, but it wasn't a mountain goat.  So I sacrified some of the Rolls Royce comfort and bought my P-38, which is kind of equivalent to trail/walking shoes.  That bike is still my go-to recumbent for touring or for shorter day or utility rides.  I was tempted to buy a Burrows Ratcatcher and not the P-38, but it wouldn't have fitted on trains; I was tempted to buy the Challenge Seiran SL and not the P-38, but I wanted to take panniers.

Yes, I have the velomobile, which is the equivalent of Marty McFly's self-lacing Nike Mags.  It's generally 25% to 50% faster than anything else, it's the most comfortable machine, it keeps me (too) warm, it has the best lights and good luggage capacity and winter stability, and it's safest on the road...but y'know, sometimes I just want to roll out on a MTB (kangaroo jumping shoes) and have fun bashing around in the hills, or scythe through traffic jams with just a saddlebag on my old commuter (my old pair of leather clumpy loafers) and be completely nobody.

So just as I could spend all my time wearing a pair of walking shoes, I might not have the space for more than one bike.  I could just do all my riding on the commuter: it's lightweight, I can load carry if I need to, I can fit crampons in wintertime if I need to; I don't need to worry overly much about theft, but I can't ride it for more than about 40 miles – so I don't, and I'm happy with that.

[Mr Larrington]

Did my eyes deceive me or did I just see on Farcebok that a Mr B Pig otp has just acquired a Cruzbike?

[Blodwyn Pig]

Did my eyes deceive me or did I just see on Farcebok that a Mr B Pig otp has just acquired a Cruzbike?

Well, yess, and nose, I did , sort of, but on further examination of exhibit no.4 , namely the photo of the rear brake caliper, it appears that the rear seat stay is cracked right through, awaiting confirmation of the same.  Bit skeptical tho, a Cruzbike, what has bin left to rot, so that thee tires is all perished, with an SP8 rear dyno  wheel and hydro discs, for £150?

[Blodwyn Pig]

UPDATE…. Cruzbike  Frame is toast bollx.

[fd3]

Zut! is a repair not feasible?