Author Topic: Is cast iron weldable? (Read 2580 times)

Basil · « **on:** 21 July, 2020, 04:08:04 pm »

Bugger. The top balcony at the front of the house is rotten. Badly rotten. It supports a huge cast iron railing affair which would have to be removed to do the repairs. It is one piece stretching the width of the house and must weigh several tons. The only way to remove it would be to cut it up.

So. Could it be welded back together again?

20200721_140752 by Basil W, on Flickr

rafletcher · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 July, 2020, 04:22:47 pm »

Not easily, because a) it's a bugger to weld and b) doing it in situ adds to the complexity.

How about one of the local farmers with a telehandler lifting it off for you?

If you do decide to get it cut into sections, get a blacksmith to look at it first - they may well be able to recommend where to cut / add brackets for reassembly with bolts.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 July, 2020, 04:44:06 pm »

Are you sure it's all one piece? As it's several identical sections, might they not have been made separately and bolted (or something) together? Not that I know anything about cast iron but that would just strike me as a much easier way of having made it back in 18-whatsit (or even now).

Ham · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 July, 2020, 04:45:47 pm »

It's not a single piece. I'd be surprised if there weren't sockets in the uprights, but they may be rusted in place. Heat is your friend, possibly. GABI. (Blacksmith)

robgul · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 July, 2020, 05:54:05 pm »

There's no way that's one piece - I have an ancient (and I mean ancient) building supplies catalogue that shows that sort of stuff being sold like fence panels. As suggested - get advice to cut into pieces, telehandler to take the bits down (and put them back)

Rob

Jurek · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:02:20 pm »

Again - There is no way that is one piece - it may've corroded and fused together as such, but there's no way that it was installed as one bit.

Basil · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:15:34 pm »

Quote from: Jurek on 21 July, 2020, 06:02:20 pm

Again - There is no way that is one piece - it may've corroded and fused together as such, but there's no way that it was installed as one bit.

Yes. This. But 125+ years of corrosion and paint have rendered it into a solid lump.

Ham · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:19:18 pm »

Quote from: Ham on 21 July, 2020, 04:45:47 pm

Heat is your friend, possibly. GABI. (Blacksmith)

Jurek · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:30:03 pm »

Quote from: Ham on 21 July, 2020, 06:19:18 pm

Quote from: Ham on 21 July, 2020, 04:45:47 pm
Heat is your friend, possibly. GABI. (Blacksmith)

TBH, I'm not convinced.
I think Basil's best buddy might be a 2mm thick cutting wheel in an angle grinder.
Followed by welding to make good.
Doubtless, Basil will want this job completed well before he leaves this mortal coil....

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:37:45 pm »

This lot near you? https://fineiron.co.uk/ironwork_restoration_conservation

Basil · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 July, 2020, 06:41:56 pm »

Gosh. Bet they're not cheap.

Sergeant Pluck · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 July, 2020, 07:11:46 pm »

Sometimes the joints between the sections are not at the newels, as you might expect, but halfway between newels. If so, the sections can be easier to take apart. Perhaps not likely with that design, but worth checking.

If the joints are in the newels, there will be a way to get them apart, but it will be a filthy job to do in situ if it’s all corroded in and everything will need freed up from the base to allow a bit of movement.

Sometimes lead was used in the joints, particularly if the balusters were set into a bottom rail.

aidan.f · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 July, 2020, 02:37:57 am »

As you will certainly need scaffolding why don't you consider how to getting it overbuilt to support lifting aids eg electric hoists? Also it could save hassle if you can store the balustrade parts at height. Looks like a complex job. You don't have much room so streetworks permissions for a start. Is the building listed? It's a lovely delicate tracery of iornwork below the balcony plus the front fence and I would not trust mates with telehandlers Similar but bigger job was lifting bells in and out of a church tower in Durham through the louvres. Scaffolding certified for the heaviest bell. On return from foundry crane driver just lifted them all up. Fortunately the scaffolding had been over built...but an example of bad planning and no proper site management.

andytheflyer · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 July, 2020, 08:43:34 am »

Thinking a bit laterally - or maybe vertically, that balustrade will be heavy, and brittle, and as others have said, fused together by corrosion.

It's a gorgeous feature though. I think that any attempt to take it down to repair the balcony is going to end in tears as it'll be difficult to get apart without damage and repairing cast-iron is a workshop and specialist job.

How about getting it scaffolded with a long lattice beam (a standard scaffolding item) over the top of the balustrade and then having it lifted in one piece up off the balcony, just enough to give you working room to remove and replace the balcony timbers. Lifting it could be done with ratchet straps at numerous points but in a coordinated manner to avoid lifting one part of the balustrade more than others. It must be lifted evenly or it will crack. Probably needs a strongback strapping to the balustrade at the top and then lifting the strongback to reduce the potential for deflection.

It'll need a builder with a bit more thinking capacity than some, but looks do-able to me with the right-minded team. And lifting it will be cheaper than cutting it up and repairing it once the balcony is done.

Cracking project though!

Asterix, the former Gaul. · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 July, 2020, 11:11:50 am »

Prop it up, rebuild the balcony below, drop back into place.

Asterix, the former Gaul. · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 July, 2020, 11:21:02 am »

Propping something up:

80cm wall with clay pointing, window frame added underneath.

SoreTween · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 July, 2020, 11:30:44 am »

Looking on Streetview may help for those that know what they are looking at. It shows the property before Basil gave it a fresh lick of paint and there are more rust marks visible particularly on the wall sections.

No link provided obviously.

CarlF · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 July, 2020, 01:01:15 pm »

Perhaps contact SPAB ( https://www.spab.org.uk/advice/technical-advice-line) or The Victorian Society (https://www.victoriansociety.org.uk/) for advice?

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 July, 2020, 01:05:34 pm »

This is a complex job with a need for more than one pint of milk.

Tim Hall · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 July, 2020, 09:27:18 am »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 22 July, 2020, 01:05:34 pm

This is a complex job with a need for more than one pint of milk.

The Basil equivalent of a two pipe problem.

Canardly · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 July, 2020, 01:04:15 pm »

Local blacksmith (If you have one these days) may be able to advise on jointing. What is the construction of the balcony Basil?

Basil · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 July, 2020, 01:45:22 pm »

Quote from: Canardly on 23 July, 2020, 01:04:15 pm

Local blacksmith (If you have one these days) may be able to advise on jointing. What is the construction of the Balcony Basil?

Wooden joists to the wall, wooden planking, topped with (cracked) lead.
Not designed to be walked on, but I guess people have. Myself included.

Canardly · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 July, 2020, 03:15:23 pm »

Then as suggested above, may well be possible to prop the railings and replace as required beneath, in sections, if required. A reputable scaffold company/builder should be able to tell you if practicable and of course advise on cost. Don't forget erected scaffold is often charged for weekly if you are planning at having a go at some of this yourself over time. Some steels and acrows may also be possible as an alternative by hanging the railing on steels supported on/in the wall. As others have said a beautiful feature.

Jaded · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 July, 2020, 06:59:15 pm »

Y, if it is a movable feast, ask the scaffold company for a single price as well as the weekly one. Don't tell them how long you think it might take.

Aunt Maud · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 July, 2020, 02:11:11 pm »

Lift it off and do the repair with it suspended in the air, it will be a doddle. I jack my roof up a bit each time I repair the timber frame in the walls and lower it down after the repair is done and the new section is in place.

If it weighs more than a tonne, I'd be surprised.

I'd strap a lattice beam to it at regular intervals to stiffen it and lift the whole thing up in one piece with a couple of lever hoists or chain hoists, depending on which way you swing.