Author Topic: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official  (Read 15527 times)

Guy

  • Retired
Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« on: 22 November, 2016, 10:38:00 am »
What cyclists have been saying for years is finally being recognised as reality

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/feeling-like-murder-the-killer-drivers-who-simply-walk-free-1-8250516

Quote
‘Feeling like murder’: The killer drivers who simply walk free

DOZENS of people convicted of killing by driving dangerously have walked free despite being convicted of a crime for which no-one has ever received the maximum penalty of 14 years’ imprisonment, an investigation can reveal today.

Grief-stricken families expressing disappointment outside Britain’s courts following the sentencing of motorists whose reckless behaviour has claimed at least 800 lives since 2010 have become a familiar sight as the number of deaths on roads begins to rise once more....


....Data released under the Freedom of Information Act shows:

• In the 12 years since Parliament increased the longest sentence from ten to 14 years in jail, not a single person has been handed the maximum penalty for causing death by dangerous driving in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In Scotland, publicly available statistics indicate that sentences have also fallen short of the maximum term.

• Of the 738 people convicted between 2010 and 2015 of the offence, the most serious driving crime on the statute book, just seven - or 0.9 per cent of the total - were jailed for more than ten years.

• The average jail sentence for causing death by dangerous driving is four years and one month, with 46 per cent of all those convicted sentenced to less than four years in prison.

• A total of 111 people convicted of death of death by dangerous driving between 2006 and 2015 have walked free from court. Of that total, 93 received suspended jail terms or community service.

In ten cases, the offender escaped with only a fine while three were given an absolute discharge - effectively a finding that the experience of prosecution was sufficient punishment.

It's a long piece but well worth a read
"The Opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject"  Marcus Aurelius

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #1 on: 22 November, 2016, 10:42:52 am »
Thinks for that, Guy.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #2 on: 22 November, 2016, 01:15:50 pm »
Stunning.

(but I have to say it just confirms the general impression I've gotten from reading news over the last few years)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #3 on: 22 November, 2016, 03:25:02 pm »
I'm not in favour of prisons where someone is not generally a threat to others. I would be happy with lifetime bans from driving if you kill someone, with severe imprisonment if you are caught driving without a licence.  BUt yes it shows what a joke the implementation of the legislation is in our driver obsessed culture.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #4 on: 22 November, 2016, 03:33:20 pm »
Unfortunately, a ban on driving will not prevent some errant drivers getting behind the wheel.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #5 on: 22 November, 2016, 05:40:41 pm »
No, and at which point they should get seriously sanctioned to make it not worth the risk. It shouldn't be possible/easy to drive without a licence.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #6 on: 22 November, 2016, 06:35:13 pm »
I'm not in favour of prisons where someone is not generally a threat to others. I would be happy with lifetime bans from driving if you kill someone, with severe imprisonment if you are caught driving without a licence.  BUt yes it shows what a joke the implementation of the legislation is in our driver obsessed culture.
[my bold] Yes, that's a reasonable viewpoint - but I suspect that short-sharp-shocks are more effective than suspended sentences, driving courses, driving bans etc etc ...

Bang 'em up for a week. Ban them for a year, with a clear statement that if they drive it will be another week in prison + fines + further bans.

We ARE talking about killing innocent people here, so I don't think this is over the top. (I'm happy to stop short of capital punishment and/or The Stocks.)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #7 on: 22 November, 2016, 06:35:53 pm »
Unlicensed/banned drivers go on to kill and I would like to prevent this harm.
If this means locking up the driver, so be it.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #8 on: 22 November, 2016, 11:37:35 pm »
The first step, if there is a reasonable expectation that they will not reoffend, is a driving ban (and confiscation of the vehicle). Caught driving without a license and the vehicle is forfeit and then it is into the slammer.

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #9 on: 23 November, 2016, 10:24:43 am »
The first step, if there is a reasonable expectation that they will not reoffend, is a driving ban (and confiscation of the vehicle). Caught driving without a license and the vehicle is forfeit and then it is into the slammer.

You'd have to remove the discretion of those with sentencing powers to be swayed by sob stories about the perp needing to drive because job/family/sick granny too.

"If I can't drive I'll lose my job waaaaah!"

"Tough titty, you nasty spotted prancer! You should have thought of that earlier!  Take him down!"
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #10 on: 23 November, 2016, 10:31:44 am »
For comparison purposes, the government doesn't seem to care about causing hardship when it comes to sanctioning claimants to stop their benefits, and their "crime" is, it appears, merely to miss an appointment at the job centre, not killing someone.

If the punishment isn't going to cause hardship it isn't going to work.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #11 on: 23 November, 2016, 12:15:24 pm »
We seem to consider driving a bigger right than to basic welfare income.

I'm appalled by people certified as fit to drive when it's clear they really aren't safe handling 60mph of killing metal machine...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #12 on: 23 November, 2016, 12:26:16 pm »
An insightful observation, Barakta.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #13 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:05:24 pm »
I say this as someone who has decided I am unfit to drive, am working on the certification of that now. My visual processing is such (aka officially weird) that I can't process moving objects at walking speed properly, nevermind drivnig speeds.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #14 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:24:21 pm »
I decided ages ago I was unfit to drive. As I wasn't driving anyhow, it wasn't really an issue. I have done nothing official about this (and have broken the law with my inaction).

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #15 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:28:30 pm »
My provisional licence is (lost somewhere), still in my old name and god knows how many addresses ago... I too am an awful lawbreaker  :demon:

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #16 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:49:27 pm »
I have a FULL driving licence with my parents' old address.
I have neither informed the DVLA of my move nor my MS.

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #17 on: 23 November, 2016, 01:54:10 pm »
MrsC works with a number of elderly people, but not in a medical capacity.

Quite a lot of them have cars, and driving licences. They need care workers to check on them, cook for them, make sure they remember to get dressed before leaving their house, but they are allowed to drive and there is no way of stopping them. They have behavioural problems due to Alzheimers and/or dementia.

This is insane.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #18 on: 23 November, 2016, 02:07:15 pm »
Yeah, friend's dad has Parkinsons and similar stuff... Makes me worry quite a lot.

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #19 on: 23 November, 2016, 04:57:30 pm »
I'm not in favour of prisons where someone is not generally a threat to others. I would be happy with lifetime bans from driving if you kill someone, with severe imprisonment if you are caught driving without a licence.
My view has always been along the lines of a 10 year sentence + 15 year ban, but with all but 2 or 3 weeks of the prison as a suspended sentence, on condition you don't drive.
A taster of what it's like, but not for long enough top lose a job that doesn't depend on driving, and no separate court case & opportunity to plead hardship required if caught behind the wheel.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #20 on: 23 November, 2016, 05:59:00 pm »
I think you need to start at the low end offences - get some bloody cops on the roads and prosecute - EFFECTIVELY - speeding, mobile phone use, aggressive tailgating etc. 
As was pointed out to me on a speed awareness course ( O:-) :-[ *) the risk of getting killed by a speeding motorist is not just the speed they drive at - it is also a factor of how many of them there are about. Hence 1 x 100 mph driver is a killer driver yes, but 300 x 40 mph (both in a 30 limit over the same time period say**)  means that it is the slower but more frequent speeders that are more of a threat and cause more of the deaths.
Also I know some are born boy-racers but the more you get away with something, the more it becomes ingrained and seems like you're doing nothing wrong and it can worsen over time.
This issue needs attention across the spectrum, not just dealing with the uber-dangerous drivers - and it should be addressed at the level of prevention rather than just with locking someone up *after* they have killed someone.  Sentencing someone harshly brings noone back to life, but maybe dealing with it earlier in their offending career might stop their potential victims ending up dead.






*In mitigation I actually quit driving soon after, I took up cycling in-part *because* I recognised that I was becoming an angry (and thereby dangerous) driver because I was so fed up with it and basically hated it by the end of daily commuting.  I drive about twice a year now and hire when I need to - shame I didn't really spot all the stupid things drivers do in myself until I took up cycling, but hey ho.  I am an ex-arsehole driver.
**My proportions may be out but there is a significant disparity the frequencies of these types of driver.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

ian

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #21 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:23:17 pm »
That's the problem. It's too late when they've injured or killed someone. Interventions need to be at the other end of the scale. Otherwise bad behaviour becomes normalised. We still trivialise things like speeding despite unassailable evidence that it's deadly and will kill more people than knives, guns, killer robots, and all the other shit we worry about.

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #22 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:25:29 pm »
There's this official line 'we must make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink driving'.
Far too many of my acquaintances just don't worry about speeding. One seems to think it's an acceptable business cost!
(And in many other respects he's perfectly sensible and quite ecologically sound about things)
The reason drink driving became unpopular wasn't initially the fact people thought it was a bad idea, it was that people got caught.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #23 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:28:53 pm »
I have seen that line related about mobile phone use, but not about speeding - but that may just my lack of attention.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Killer Drivers Treated Leniently - Official
« Reply #24 on: 23 November, 2016, 06:34:38 pm »
It was used about speeding before 'they' started to concentrate on phones.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."