Energy bills, government ‘help’ and the like

[felstedrider]

There isn’t any such £2k cap. I do wish that wouldn’t get repeated.

Sloppy on my part.  Footnote added.

In my defence I’ve been pretty clear on my thoughts of using a flat spend number to define the cap, but there’s no sign of a change in approach.

[andyoxon]

Now we're post the latest (End of June) adjustment of the capped tariffs, wondering if there's much variability in daily standing charges for those on current variable rates...

On Octopus here:

Elect SC  £0.4795     UR  0.303  /kWh
Gas SC    £0.2747     UR 0.076

Anything significantly different?

[slope]

Scottish Power - in North Wales.

Elect: SC = £0.6181     UR =  £0.3109  /kWh

+ VAT

[andyoxon]

Ok, that's pretty high, ~25% more...

[mrcharly-YHT]

Scottish Power.

Elect: SC = £0.6181     UR =  £0.3109  /kWh

This is one of the reasons people are opposing windfarms up here.

It is one of the cheapest generation technologies, and the country with many windfarms has some of the most expensive electricity. Bloody bonkers.

[Mrs Pingu]

Now we're post the latest (End of June) adjustment of the capped tariffs, wondering if there's much variability in daily standing charges for those on current variable rates...

On Octopus here:

Elect SC  £0.4795     UR  0.303  /kWh
Gas SC    £0.2747     UR 0.076

Anything significantly different?

There will be a lot of variability in standing charges because they are regional.
https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/regional-energy-prices/#what-is-the-cost-of-electricity-by-region

[andyoxon]

So range seems to be ~43-62p/day. +£76/yr ish at top end

[rogerzilla]

With EON in slithy Swindon:

Electricity

Next Loyalty Fixed v4

Fixed term ends 29/07/2024
29.98 p/kWh 43.57 p/day

(All rates inc. VAT)
Gas

Next Loyalty Fixed v4

Fixed term ends 29/07/2024
7.48 p/kWh 23.08 p/day

(All rates inc. VAT)

Works out to £1,140/year (plus I'll have to buy at least £500 of wood - normally more than that, but we have to go in the office more nowadays, and I have quite a lot left in the store, plus a long-dead cherry tree to chop down).

[felstedrider]

The 30 ish p for electricity is the delivered rate.   

The wholesale element is roughly 10p of that.

There’s been some very low prices of late as it’s been so windy.   A lot of the continent has seen negative pricing.   This Winter still has a bit of risk to the upside.

[felstedrider]

In case anyone’s wondering about today’s announcement on new gas licences.  (I don’t knock around POBI).

Any new licences granted will take at least a couple of years to produce actual gas.  The forecast volumes aren’t big enough to remove the correlation to European gas prices that has caused the spikes.  I have been critical about there not being enough focus on energy security but this doesn’t really help.

You could put up a tonne of onshore wind generation quicker but that doesn’t make a good story for voters.

[Mrs Pingu]

Wind generation would at least be contributing to our energy needs. Oil and gas mostly sold elsewhere

[felstedrider]

Wind generation would at least be contributing to our energy needs. Oil and gas mostly sold elsewhere

With gas it needs to land somewhere so there will be a physical pipeline.  Obviously there’s no detail at the moment but they could, theoretically, specify that the gas has to connect to the UK Grid.

One of the bigger problems with wind is locational.  The turbines are built well away from where the demand is (at the moment).  On really windy days you have to turn down generation in Scotland as you can’t get the power to where it’s needed.  More storage/batteries would help.  There’s interconnectors to France, Belgium and the Netherlands that can flow both ways so you could export if it’s economically viable.

[Mrs Pingu]

And the Viking Link is supposed to be coming this year?

[felstedrider]

And the Viking Link is supposed to be coming this year?

Website says commissioning in December.

I did see some of the works when riding through the fens a few weeks back.

[Kim]

You could put up a tonne of onshore wind generation quicker but that doesn’t make a good story for voters.

Or it does, but for the wrong voters.

[felstedrider]

You could put up a tonne of onshore wind generation quicker but that doesn’t make a good story for voters.

Or it does, but for the wrong voters.

Indeedy.   The fens were once covered with ‘no to windfarm’ signs (there’s quite a few ‘no to solar now).  So Govt give in and move to offshore.  East Anglia is now covered with ‘no to new pylons’ signs.  Obvs you need to get the power from where it’s generated to where it’s consumed.

I don’t envy anyone trying to fix this.

The elephant in the room is that long term prices don’t really support investment.  The market went all the way up and then most of the way back down again.  Long term prices don’t support the building of new oil and gas fields or new renewable build.  The returns just aren’t great.

[mrcharly-YHT]

There is a sizeable, and very loud, number of people utterly opposed to any windfarms in the highlands, Islands and offshore.

They frustrate and anger me to a huge extent.

Quite a few of them are plain ignorant (think flat earther level of ignorant).

As someone else eloquently put it

The world is on fire, and they are opposing windfarms to preserve a view.

(that was in connection with a particular proposed offshore windfarm).

[L CC]

There is a sizeable, and very loud, number of people utterly opposed to any windfarms in the highlands, Islands and offshore.

They frustrate and anger me to a huge extent.

Quite a few of them are plain ignorant (think flat earther level of ignorant).

As someone else eloquently put it

The world is on fire, and they are opposing windfarms to preserve a view.

(that was in connection with a particular proposed offshore windfarm).

A local hillside is about (for planning levels of about) to be covered in a solar farm. As big as you can get without central Govt planning. One resident is vociferously complaining. Every time I ride past I toy with defacing their opposition sign with 'NEVER MIND THE PLANET, SAVE MY VIEW'. They have at least 4 cars at their house.

[Cudzoziemiec]

There is a sizeable, and very loud, number of people utterly opposed to any windfarms in the highlands, Islands and offshore.

They frustrate and anger me to a huge extent.

Quite a few of them are plain ignorant (think flat earther level of ignorant).

As someone else eloquently put it

The world is on fire, and they are opposing windfarms to preserve a view.

(that was in connection with a particular proposed offshore windfarm).

A local hillside is about (for planning levels of about) to be covered in a solar farm. As big as you can get without central Govt planning. One resident is vociferously complaining. Every time I ride past I toy with defacing their opposition sign with 'NEVER MIND THE PLANET, SAVE MY VIEW'. They have at least 4 cars at their house.

It will take too long to write with sharpie, paint brush or spray can. So make a stencil at home.

[mrcharly-YHT]

There is a sizeable, and very loud, number of people utterly opposed to any windfarms in the highlands, Islands and offshore.

They frustrate and anger me to a huge extent.

Quite a few of them are plain ignorant (think flat earther level of ignorant).

As someone else eloquently put it

The world is on fire, and they are opposing windfarms to preserve a view.

(that was in connection with a particular proposed offshore windfarm).

A local hillside is about (for planning levels of about) to be covered in a solar farm. As big as you can get without central Govt planning. One resident is vociferously complaining. Every time I ride past I toy with defacing their opposition sign with 'NEVER MIND THE PLANET, SAVE MY VIEW'. They have at least 4 cars at their house.

Sounds about right.

Trouble is, the loud morons are so loud, they've been reported in Scottish press as "Major opposition to windfarms from local inhabitants", and the MP seizing it as a question to ask in parliament.

It it probably less than 100 people out of thousands.

[rogerzilla]

I hadn't realised oil-fired boilers only have a couple of years to go.  As heat pumps are far more expensive and really need major work done to the house (much bigger rads or underfloor heating) for efficient and effective operation, won't everyone without mains gas just keep flogging old oil boilers as long as they possibly can?  Typically they are used to heat older, rural, houses which are much less easy to upgrade.

I thought they'd at least harmonise the sunset dates for gas and oil.  Heat pumps absolutely terrify me.

[Cudzoziemiec]

AFAICS oil boilers are only being banned in new builds from 2025, anything currently installed is okay to carry on and to be replaced like-for-like.

[grams]

You'd think there'd be an easily findable government page for this info. Google just returns dodgy SEOed pages from companies with an interest in misleading you, plus confused forum posts and possibly-superceded government press releases and white papers.

[rogerzilla]

AFAICS oil boilers are only being banned in new builds from 2025, anything currently installed is okay to carry on and to be replaced like-for-like.

If that's correct, it's not too bad.  There's a high chance whatever we buy next year has no gas.  We'll probably use a lot of wood, but it can't easily heat the hot water.

[De Sisti]

I went through the motions of completing the online form of Octopus to see if they could install
a heat pump in my 1910 mid-terraced house. This is their reply:

Thanks so much for putting your name down for an Octopus Energy heat pump - heating that’s more energy efficient, more comfortable and far better for the planet than a boiler powered by fossil fuels. From what you’ve told us, it sounds like your home may not have enough space for a heat pump or a water cylinder right now.

It’s currently all-systems-go at our green heating research & development centre, and we’re making good progress in designing a heat pump system that’s the perfect fit for smaller spaces. Once we’ve found the right solution, we’ll get back in touch to let you know that we’re ready to install your heat pump.

So there it is. Heat pumps currently cannot be fitted to some properties (but we all knew that anyway).