PBP - Reflective vests?

[Ivo]

sheesh... you try to offer info to people who might be interested and what do you get? 

The mattc attackbot kicks in!   

... and with Pavlovian reflex, the Flatus spoon of stirring whips into action!
Andrew, I wasn't having a go at you 

I just object to wearing stuff we don't need on an event. And as this is the only vest officially approved (that I know of, so far) it does verge on a money-making venture, doncha think?

No. Any vest which has the required safety label is oficially approved. The usual reflective vest on sale at many shops has this label. The pictured one is the only specific *cycling* one which is officially approved. No-one will object to you using a generic safety vest.

[EdinburghFixed]

You are quite free to wear something else for PBP if you wish (subject to scrutineers approval of course).

It should be nice and simple this year because the scrutineers will have to accept anything marked EN1150 (assuming it's not worn out) as that is their legal requirement. Similarly, I'd imagine there will be no hope of getting anything through which is not marked EN1150 (because then everyone knows up front you won't be legal).

The linked gilet looks good - it's not yellow (awesome bonus) and, as a further enormous win, it looks like it might actually be useful on the bike. I would normally be riding in a gilet anyway, overnight.

[tatanab]

Firstly an admission - I have no interest in PBP and picked up this thread due to its title.

As I understand what has been written here, PBP will require EN1150.  How can they do this when the French law requires EN471 when riding in the dark, out of town etc?  EN471 outranks EN1150 because BS EN 1150 covers garments for purely private use, but BS EN 471 sets more demanding minimum standards of visual performance and durability needed for high visibility clothing worn in the course of a trade or profession.

Just interested that's all.

[Andrew]

Just interested that's all.

I'm sure it's been debated elsewhere on this forum (and at some length!), and it's not my intention to rekindle that debate. I know there is confusion because of the 2 regulations but I would say, in short, that I think either EN are practicably accepted.

[Andrew]

it looks like it might actually be useful on the bike. I would normally be riding in a gilet anyway, overnight.

Egg-sactly! I think of it as saving me carrying 2 garments! Also, I personally like gilets that enable access to shirt pockets. This does that as well as having it's own zipped pocket. As I said before, it looks some thought has been put into it's design.

As Evo pointed out, stores are awash with EN labelled garments (here in France anyway). Any DIY store will sell you a basic vest for less than €5, and that would pass muster at PBP check in. I rode in one such for my BRM 400 in June. It's not particularly flattering (should you be concerned about such things), one-size fits all and could be a right pain in the ace, I suspect, if conditions meant it started flapping around. Still, it's legal.   

[MattH]

Also, it wouldn't take much sewing skill to take in a standard waistcoat to make it less flappy.

[Andrew]

No, indeed, as I did with my old motorcycle one.

Btw, just a word of warning about the original link I posted, it MAY not be secure. I've changed it now but it would seem the first link I gave showed some client details... and not mine either! 

[mattc]

The linked gilet looks good - it's not yellow (awesome bonus) and, as a further enormous win, it looks like it might actually be useful on the bike. I would normally be riding in a gilet anyway, overnight.

Not yellow?
"Jaune" or "Juane-orange" ; so yellow or almost yellow.
(Actually with my vision one of them looks green - so I'll assume that's the jaune one!)

Ranting about the rules aside, these do look quite a good product (although I am always suspicious of the word "breathable" unless it is attached to a known material like Pertex). Thanks for the link Andrew.

Anyone got past the UK address problem?

Anyone speak good enough French to arrange an AUK bulk discount?!?

[simonp]

http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Gilet_triangle.pdf

Does not specify either EN471 or EN1150, just that it's CE marked.

EN1150 is the lower standard.

[mattc]

http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Gilet_triangle.pdf

Does not specify either EN471 or EN1150, just that it's CE marked.

EN1150 is the lower standard.

That really is rather vague, isn't it! And most of that is about motorists standing by their car. This is the only text about cycling:
"
ET NOS AMIS CYCLISTES ? (i like that phrase)
Obligation pour tout cycliste circulant hors agglomération, de nuit ou de jour si visibilité mauvaise , de porter un gilet
rétro-réfléchissant à partir du 1er Septembre 2008.
"

[toontra]

I've just checked and the ones I bought from Poundland (2 for £1) are EN471, so presumably they're OK.

[Greenbank]

Anyone know if the official Audax UK waistcoats will be suitable? They're a little on the big side though...

[Andrij]

Anyone know if the official Audax UK waistcoats will be suitable? They're a little on the big side though...

Official AudaxUK waistcoat?  Not sure about that, but might be interested in a 'club' blazer and tie. 
 

[Greenbank]

The one like this: Malcolm Howlett and 500 others | Flickr - Photo Sharing! with "Audax UK" underneath the bicycle...

Anyway, I'll be at home in a couple of hours so I can check mine anyway.

[mattc]

Anyone know if the official Audax UK waistcoats will be suitable? They're a little on the big side though...

Official AudaxUK waistcoat?  Not sure about that, but might be interested in a 'club' blazer and tie. 
 

All members should ensure their club pipe is lit between sunset and sunrise.

[hellymedic]

Seems that compliance with EN 1150 or EN 471 makes a garment vile, by design.
http://rema.org.uk/pdf/professional-hivis-advice.pdf

They MUST be yellow, orange-red or red (no pink!)
Bands must be 50mm wide an encircle the torso.

I don't see how that gilet could comply.

[simonp]

I looked at that document last night; I don't think it discusses the EN1150 requirements at all.

[Greenbank]

My official Audax UK hi-viz waistcoat has 'EN 471' on the label.

[Wothill]

Seems that compliance with EN 1150 or EN 471 makes a garment vile, by design.
http://rema.org.uk/pdf/professional-hivis-advice.pdf

They MUST be yellow, orange-red or red (no pink!)
Bands must be 50mm wide an encircle the torso.

I don't see how that gilet could comply.

Isn't that part of the EN471 specification? It seems that 1150 is also allowable and apart from being described as for non-professional purposes, I have not seen any other requirements such as width of the reflective bits.

[LEE]

Every French garage sells hi-viz vests for about £4.

Just buy one, put it on at night and your uncle instantly becomes Bob.

If you're worried about it affecting your "coolness" then stop worrying, it's dark at night (and besides which, you are probably, statistically speaking, middle-aged, wearing lycra, wearing a cycling helmet, stinking to high-heaven and walking like John Wayne, Angelina Jolie stopped stalking you years ago).

What a fuss.

[Ian H]

The only fuss I'll make is if I can't find something that's a lightweight mesh, because I might not want an extra layer. I had one and lost it somewhere before Paris last time.

[simonp]

I have checked the label on the one I used in 2007.

CE marked to EN471.

I doubt it cost me very much. I didn't buy it for PBP.

[EdinburghFixed]

If you're worried about it affecting your "coolness" then stop worrying, it's dark at night (and besides which, you are probably, statistically speaking, middle-aged, wearing lycra, wearing a cycling helmet, stinking to high-heaven and walking like John Wayne, Angelina Jolie stopped stalking you years ago).

What if you're young, have an incredible derriere and rakishly good-looking hair (unspoilt by foam hat), and a restraining order against Angelina Jolie? 

Seriously though, my main concern would be whether it will be 'boil in the bag' or not. It was quite a revelation when I tried my first windproof and the DHB cycling jacket I'd previously been using went in the bin (literally). You can sweat like a bastard and not be sweaty - amazing stuff.

I'm happy to suspend my "looking like a binman will save your life" skepticism when in Rome, but not enthusiastic about lying in a damp pool of my own sweat for several nights.

[Andrew]

I have not seen any other requirements such as width of the reflective bits.

I have. When I looked at the specifics of the regulations. One or other of them (or maybe both!) specifies how much reflective strip, how wide, etc etc etc. Imo, that's really not the confusion though, in so far as cycling is concerned.

As I recall and I stand to be corrected, the laws that require cyclists to wear high-viz don't actually specify which EN spec is applicable. But I'm sure this debate has been had before on this forum, and some sort of consensus opinion was reached!

[mattc]

As I recall and I stand to be corrected, the laws that require cyclists to wear high-viz don't actually specify which EN spec is applicable. But I'm sure this debate has been had before on this forum, and some sort of consensus opinion was reached!

I think it's a mistake to assume a forum aims to achieve consensus. On any subject.           

(Don't forget we're mostly UK-based cyclists, so we don't normally worry about these things.)