PBP - Reflective vests?

[Andrew]

I think it's a mistake to assume a forum aims to achieve consensus.

I'm not sure I did 

However, I do remember a healthy discussion and that (somewhat surprisingly given the nature of forums!) people managed to weave their way through the facts and opinions to agree something that seemed to satisfy.

Btw, I think there's some very 'nit picky' UK based cyclists on this forum (not referring to you Matt) and I think that's a good thing. It's always beneficial to have input from people that are worried about these things even when they don't concern them directly.   

[LEE]

If you're worried about it affecting your "coolness" then stop worrying, it's dark at night (and besides which, you are probably, statistically speaking, middle-aged, wearing lycra, wearing a cycling helmet, stinking to high-heaven and walking like John Wayne, Angelina Jolie stopped stalking you years ago).

What if you're young, have an incredible derriere and rakishly good-looking hair (unspoilt by foam hat), and a restraining order against Angelina Jolie? 

Then Audax isn't for you, you probably just got lost on your way to a Sportive.

[EdinburghFixed]

Touche!

I do often feel a bit odd, coming in at half the "average age of riders...". Still, I also feel like I have half the wizened power of many riders, so it probably balances out in the wash.

[Karla]

EF, we should club together with Shaun Gregory sometime and descend on an underpopulated Audax, giving it an average age in the 20s.  That'll show'em 

Seriously, I'm now worried about whether my hi-viz vest will pass.  I checked last night and couldn't see any European standard labels on it, though I may have removed them.  I'll possibly go back to the shop and check!  In the meantime, can anyone comment on the suitability of this thing?  Like Ian and EF, I'd prefer to take the minimum possible in terms of extra layers of hi-viz.

[Greenbank]

EF, we should club together with Shaun Gregory sometime and descend on an underpopulated Audax, giving it an average age in the 20s.  That'll show'em 

Won't work, just by coincidence an equal number of old gimmers will turn up, maintaining the balance.

Anyway, back to reflectives...

Based on my memory of the description I saw of the various standards I'd say "no" given that the standards say that the retro-reflective bands have to continue around the whole body, so a vest like that probably won't do.

(That rema link below says "bands encircling the torso".)

Obviously there's compliance with the standards and compliance with the PBP officials. They may look at that and wave you through, then at one control in the dead of the night one of the officials may give you a time penalty because it doesn't meet the full standard. C'est la vie.

[Exit Stage Left]

Surely the solution is a special edition jersey which incorporates the features needed to satisfy the regs.

[EdinburghFixed]

Who's going to front the cash to put it through testing though? I'm guessing that would cost serious money.

(Also, for whatever it's worth, I'd quite like a jersey that I might wear again someday.)

[DrMekon]

Surely the solution is a special edition jersey which incorporates the features needed to satisfy the regs.

Wouldn#t a non-PBP but hi-viz edition sell more, thereby driving unit costs down? I say that as a non-PBPer, but a lover of all things hi-viz who would love a YACF gilet.

[mattc]

A jersey wouldn't work, cos you have to wear your hi-viz over everything else.
(unless 2011 is guaranteed dry. Or waterproofs are banned.)

[Ian H]

... a lover of all things hi-viz...

The mind boggles.

[hellymedic]

Who's going to front the cash to put it through testing though? I'm guessing that would cost serious money.

(Also, for whatever it's worth, I'd quite like a jersey that I might wear again someday.)

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to buy a job lot of certified vests and get them overprinted?

[mattc]

Who's going to front the cash to put it through testing though? I'm guessing that would cost serious money.

(Also, for whatever it's worth, I'd quite like a jersey that I might wear again someday.)

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to buy a job lot of certified vests and get them overprinted?

My inner pessimist says that most will have nasty coatings that make post-production printing impossible expensive.

[hellymedic]

Who's going to front the cash to put it through testing though? I'm guessing that would cost serious money.

(Also, for whatever it's worth, I'd quite like a jersey that I might wear again someday.)

Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to buy a job lot of certified vests and get them overprinted?

My inner pessimist says that most will have nasty coatings that make post-production printing impossible expensive.

AIUI the last batch of AUK PBP vests were certified but weren't pricy. I don't know how they were sourced.

[Ian H]

My inner pessimist says that most will have nasty coatings that make post-production printing impossible expensive.

You can screenprint on to almost anything.

[DrMekon]

... a lover of all things hi-viz...

The mind boggles.

Don't knock it...

[mattc]

My inner pessimist says that most will have nasty coatings that make post-production printing impossible expensive.

You can screenprint on to almost anything.

Can you conjure up a per-unit cost of printing the AUK logo (in readable size) on $random-garment ?!? Say 10-50 units?

[Greenbank]

I tried on my EN471 certified AUK reflective waistcoat last night, not as bad a fit as I thought it was (I had thought it was tent-like), so I'll probably use that for PBP. Especially as it has "Audax UK" on the back of it.

[MSeries]

I tried on my EN471 certified AUK reflective waistcoat last night, not as bad a fit as I thought it was (I had thought it was tent-like), so I'll probably use that for PBP. Especially as it has "Audax UK" on the back of it.

My Gist one is tent like. I'll fatten up in time though.

[Karla]

This one looks like it'll do.  It's built of mesh, it'll probably pack down small, the reflectives look like they go all around the sides and it only costs £1.99 off the 'bay.

[AndyH]

I suppose you actually have to wear the things, not just put it on as you approach a control ? Everything we have at work is EN471 class 2 or 3, but they are not really cycling wear.

[border-rider]

I suppose you actually have to wear the things, not just put it on as you approach a control ?

Yep

They have roving motorcycle patrols who have the power to stop you and give you a time penalty. Not many in 2007, but more in 2003

[AndyH]

They have roving motorcycle patrols who have the power to stop you and give you a time penalty. Not many in 2007, but more in 2003

the cheese eating surrender monkey bar stewards. I better try riding in my building site hi vis a few times then. When that fails I suppose I'll spend money.

[LEE]

They only cost about £2 (99p on Ebay).

I used to ride at night in one all the time, it didn't bother me, they aren't sweaty. 

On the dark lanes around here you are more visble at night (wearing a hi-viz) than in the day.

Now I tend to have it rolled-up on the back of my Carradice, reflective strips facing rear-most, better than having a rear light.

[mattc]

Now I tend to have it rolled-up on the back of my Carradice, reflective strips facing rear-most, better than having a rear light.

Which would rather suggest that reflective torsos aren't actually the best way to be seen ...

Still, the leuuuur is the leuuuuur.

[LEE]

Now I tend to have it rolled-up on the back of my Carradice, reflective strips facing rear-most, better than having a rear light.

Which would rather suggest that reflective torsos aren't actually the best way to be seen ...

Still, the leuuuur is the leuuuuur.

It doesn't suggest that.

I just think it's a good addition to my rear light.

If I was wearing it I think I'd be more visible as there would be more reflective material exposed.

My own experience of driving a car around here is that I see "Scotchlite" reflected in my headlights from further away than some of the inadequate rear lights in use.

Rear LEDs rely heavily on alignment for their brightness whereas "Scotchlite" doesn't.  

Edit.  I suppose I'd better make the point that this is all anecdotal and based on riding mostly in totally dark rural areas.  It does not apply to brightly illuminated London where camouflage clothes are better to be seen, helmets kill small children and brakes are instruments of the anti-christ.