How to plan a DIY ?

[PloddinPedro]

I'm getting steadily more confused about all this. Why can't we have one set of detailed, definitive rules, procedures, protocols, whatever, for this subject?

When I do my DIY rides for my RRTY, I send a scanned image of an entry form, by e-mail, to Andy Uttley beforehand, with only the date of the month e.g. " ... October 2009" filled in. The ride is a route I've done previously, many times, and I got it approved by Andy before I rode it the first ever time. I've never sent in a paper copy of the entry form, nor have I ever advised him before the ride of the precise date I've intended to actually ride it. I just ride it when I'm ready - wake up, yawn, look out window: yup, not raining or blowing a gale, I'll go ride - I fill in the Brevet afterwards and post it. So far, this has worked OK, no problem.

Now I read that I'm supposed to nominate a precise day of the ride and inform someone in advance and get the Brevet in the post within 48 hours. Is this for both DIY and Permanent rides? Is this supposed to be the same for every Organiser/validator? Why? Why not? We should be told.

Yours, grumpily!

[DanialW]

I'm getting steadily more confused about all this. Why can't we have one set of detailed, definitive rules, procedures, protocols, whatever, for this subject?

You can. And I'm sure one day, someone will write them.

Why not volunteer? We can always find work for new volunteers.

[frankly frankie]

Why can't we have one set of detailed, definitive rules, procedures, protocols, whatever, for this subject?

Because people would pick holes in them anyway, and being cyclists (who generally seem to have - ahem - nonconformist tendencies) would bend and abuse them.

For example, you have to fill in an Entry Form, and the Entry Form includes a line for 'Date'.
Therefore (it seems obvious to me) one detailed, definitive rule is you have to specify the date you intend to ride, when you enter.
The fact that many people don't, or see Permanents as a carte-blanche to change their plans on the day, is because ... well, because they're cyclists.  And the Organisers (and AUK officials) turn a blind eye because they're cyclists too.

[mattc]

My view is that the rules are very clear, as printed in the handbook (also online).

However, some organisers have very kindly 'extended' the rules to make things easier for us, for which I'm sure we are all grateful. It's an unfortunate side-effect that not all such extensions are well documented, and vary between organisers. But you can always do a ride by sticking to the published rules.

[MSeries]

I'm getting steadily more confused about all this. Why can't we have one set of detailed, definitive rules, procedures, protocols, whatever, for this subject?

When I do my DIY rides for my RRTY, I send a scanned image of an entry form, by e-mail, to Andy Uttley beforehand, with only the date of the month e.g. " ... October 2009" filled in. The ride is a route I've done previously, many times, and I got it approved by Andy before I rode it the first ever time. I've never sent in a paper copy of the entry form, nor have I ever advised him before the ride of the precise date I've intended to actually ride it. I just ride it when I'm ready - wake up, yawn, look out window: yup, not raining or blowing a gale, I'll go ride - I fill in the Brevet afterwards and post it. So far, this has worked OK, no problem.

Now I read that I'm supposed to nominate a precise day of the ride and inform someone in advance and get the Brevet in the post within 48 hours. Is this for both DIY and Permanent rides? Is this supposed to be the same for every Organiser/validator? Why? Why not? We should be told.

Yours, grumpily!

Andy it seems is extending a courtesy to you and others. Not all DIY organisers operate this way, Joe, who looks after me doesn't. (as mattc said)

[simonp]

I'm getting steadily more confused about all this. Why can't we have one set of detailed, definitive rules, procedures, protocols, whatever, for this subject?

When I do my DIY rides for my RRTY, I send a scanned image of an entry form, by e-mail, to Andy Uttley beforehand, with only the date of the month e.g. " ... October 2009" filled in. The ride is a route I've done previously, many times, and I got it approved by Andy before I rode it the first ever time. I've never sent in a paper copy of the entry form, nor have I ever advised him before the ride of the precise date I've intended to actually ride it. I just ride it when I'm ready - wake up, yawn, look out window: yup, not raining or blowing a gale, I'll go ride - I fill in the Brevet afterwards and post it. So far, this has worked OK, no problem.

Now I read that I'm supposed to nominate a precise day of the ride and inform someone in advance and get the Brevet in the post within 48 hours. Is this for both DIY and Permanent rides? Is this supposed to be the same for every Organiser/validator? Why? Why not? We should be told.

Yours, grumpily!

If you're scanning an entry form in advance, why not do that on the day you actually ride?  20 minutes before you set off?  I've certainly emailed a scan the day before,  though don't recall doing one on the day yet.

[DanialW]

Bridget?

Deirdre more like, with those glasses.

[Chris S]

Just to confirm, folks, if you buy DIY or Mesh cards from me online, then you need to send me a paper or electronic entry form before you ride.

You also need to tell me the date before you set off.

I always do 

 

[PloddinPedro]

However, some organisers have very kindly 'extended' the rules to make things easier for us, for which I'm sure we are all grateful. It's an unfortunate side-effect that not all such extensions are well documented, and vary between organisers.

Well if that is indeed the case, perhaps I should keep quiet and leave sleeping dogs lie! But it seems a shame that some riders should benefit from the generous interpretation afforded by some organisers/validators and others shouldn't.

[DanialW]

It's generally the riders with whom I build a rapport, that I leave to it a lot more.

If I'm confident that a rider knows how to use Autoroute, I rarely check their routes, for example.

I don't think this is a shame at all, as it's the sort of benefit that anyone can enjoy, if they make the initial effort.

[PloddinPedro]

It's generally the riders with whom I build a rapport, that I leave to it a lot more.

If I'm confident that a rider knows how to use Autoroute, I rarely check their routes, for example.

I don't think this is a shame at all, as it's the sort of benefit that anyone can enjoy, if they make the initial effort.

I totally agree with that - I was thinking more of the "date the entry form for the day you intend to ride" point. I find it very useful to be able to leave this vague and choose which day to ride without having to "commit" by nominating a specific day. If I had to date the form, and then I couldn't ride on that day, I'd have to send the entry form in again with a fresh date when I next could. A waste of everyone's time. The only reason I can think of for such a rigid procedure would be if the insurance company had stipulated it. Again, I can't see why they should, but you know what they're like .....

[MSeries]

It's generally the riders with whom I build a rapport, that I leave to it a lot more.

If I'm confident that a rider knows how to use Autoroute, I rarely check their routes, for example.

I don't think this is a shame at all, as it's the sort of benefit that anyone can enjoy, if they make the initial effort.

Only riders in your area can benefit, not anyone.

[simonp]

So I have a friend asking me about DIYs and I try to point him at the diy.pdf and the link contains a PDF which says "the old document was out of date, so we're not going to tell you anything" (my paraphrasing).

I suppose I can point him here, but it would be nice if someone could've at least left the document available. 

[MSeries]

I have  a copy if you want it, I'm not sure if you're just having a moan though.

[simonp]

I have  a copy if you want it, I'm not sure if you're just having a moan though.

You're right, I made it all up.

[mattc]

What are the recommended settings for viaMichelin?

[If you pick shortest, you can still get a motorway route; a motorway route is usually not the shortest route on the ground.
Whereas "bike" may be picking scenic-over-shortest, for all I know.]

[Chris S]

What are the recommended settings for viaMichelin?

[If you pick shortest, you can still get a motorway route; a motorway route is usually not the shortest route on the ground.
Whereas "bike" may be picking scenic-over-shortest, for all I know.]

I try several options until I get the shortest non-motorway route. Usually, it's "bike".

[DanialW]

So I have a friend asking me about DIYs and I try to point him at the diy.pdf and the link contains a PDF which says "the old document was out of date, so we're not going to tell you anything" (my paraphrasing).

I suppose I can point him here, but it would be nice if someone could've at least left the document available. 

Does this refer to my website?

I'm afraid my website has gone to a health farm for a month or so. It would be back earlier, but I'm too bust with LEL2013 to go and pick it up.

The DIY details are all on the AUK website, which is where I got them from in the first place.

[mattc]

So I have a friend asking me about DIYs and I try to point him at the diy.pdf and the link contains a PDF which says "the old document was out of date, so we're not going to tell you anything" (my paraphrasing).

I suppose I can point him here, but it would be nice if someone could've at least left the document available. 

The DIY details are all on the AUK website, which is where I got them from in the first place.

I believe Simon is referring to the aukweb page - which was giving a similar message when I tried this morning.

I'd agree with him - it would be good to have something there so that people can get on with planning their spring/summer rides.

M

[simonp]

So I have a friend asking me about DIYs and I try to point him at the diy.pdf and the link contains a PDF which says "the old document was out of date, so we're not going to tell you anything" (my paraphrasing).

I suppose I can point him here, but it would be nice if someone could've at least left the document available. 

Does this refer to my website?

I'm afraid my website has gone to a health farm for a month or so. It would be back earlier, but I'm too bust with LEL2013 to go and pick it up.

The DIY details are all on the AUK website, which is where I got them from in the first place.

This link:

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/perms/diy.pdf

About DIY Perms.
This page is in the process of being updated. The previous information was out of date. A new
revised version should be available soon.

My mate hasn't replied to my email apologising for the info being missing and offering to answer any questions, yet.  I pointed him at this thread, but this thread refers to that doc. 

[Ian H]

For now you can look at AUK DIY events if that's any help.

[MSeries]

What are the recommended settings for viaMichelin?

[If you pick shortest, you can still get a motorway route; a motorway route is usually not the shortest route on the ground.
Whereas "bike" may be picking scenic-over-shortest, for all I know.]

I try several options until I get the shortest non-motorway route. Usually, it's "bike".

I submitted some routes to my local DIY org recently where I measured using ViaMichelin, 'by bike'  instead of my version of Autoroute. The reason being that I have a different version or Autoroute to my DIY Org. The routes were still rejected. So now it's down to guess work.

[mattc]

Need more cards after yesterday's sortie, but I can't find the current bulk purchase deal:

For now you can look at AUK DIY events if that's any help.

The above page gives these prices:

Prices for payment by post or in person: £3.00 per card, £15.00 for six cards.

Prices increased 19th Nov 2009 in line with other suppliers.

Are other franchise holders suppliers exactly the same? I can't find the info on aukweb ...

[Ian H]

...So now it's down to guess work.

Wherever I've rejected routes it's been obvious, looking at the map, that there's a dog-leg.  It should only be a question of visually assessing whether each section is a straight line. All the mapping programs seem to do odd things now and again; a bit of human intervention is still sometimes necessary.

[Ian H]

The above page gives these prices:

Prices for payment by post or in person: £3.00 per card, £15.00 for six cards.

Prices increased 19th Nov 2009 in line with other suppliers.

Are other franchise holders suppliers exactly the same? I can't find the info on aukweb ...

We should all be the same, except that Danial (if and when his website's back up) and I are also offering Paypal with P&P  thrown in (no SAEs required), at a slightly different price and with an extra option.